Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 03:01:52 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #138 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Testing and Standards (Rudy Timmerman) 2. Discipline (Rudy Timmerman) 3. Testing (Rudy Timmerman) 4. Re: Tang Soo Do Hyung Videos (Bernard Redfield) 5. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Testing_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 6. RE: Re: opinion poll (Randy Mertes) 7. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Opinion_Poll?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 8. Age in TKD (Art VanVranken) 9. Re: Opinion Poll - Mr Luttrell (Divetony@aol.com) 10. Re: 43 yr old student to Master DEWITT (Divetony@aol.com) 11. Black Belt Test (Brian Woodard) 12. Attitude (Rudy Timmerman) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:14:30 -0500 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Testing and Standards Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Klaas writes: > What I don't understand is that some masters want to test the students > of their students. This master usually doesn't know the students, > hasn't worked > with them, doesn't know where they come form etc. etc. He's probably > just there for the money. Hello Klaas: I like to test all of my students, my students' students, and so on, and I do it mainly to make sure no one slips up. I look at my students' students because I want to see how my Instructors fare in their teaching. I want to see EVERYTHING my students have been taught, because I know how easy it is to "trade" new stuff for old stuff (and the "bag of tricks" remains at the same level, never filling). I call out random numbers of sets of techniques, because that way I can save a bit of time. The students MUST keep up with everything, because they never know what is going to be asked next. This expands their memory capacity as well as their physical skill. I ask them to do ALL of their forms (in four directions), because I know this builds tremendous aerobic capacity while they are performing "sport specific" skills (instead of exercises that have little to do with martial art training). I could go on, but then... this is just the way I do things, and it may not be of interest to others. In closing, unlike many, I don't charge my students to look at their students. This is not about money, to me this is about preserving quality for as long as I am heading up our art. Someone else asked about "what is the acceptable standard". I once considered quitting, because I could no longer do the very things I demanded from my students; however, shortly afterward I got comfortable with aging (nothing I had control over, so no sense sweating it), and I simply felt that I had no right to demand less of the students because of MY limitations. I think it is their right to expect that I drive them to be the best they can be. Heck, I now even feel comfortable demonstrating, while I KNOW I am too old to do this. Hey... I need to have fun just like the rest:) If they are embarrassed by my performance, they can always look away. In short, I see no need to drop the standards to the level of MY ability. At the same time, I don't compare ANY student to any other student's ability; hence, each can advance to become their own personal best. FWIW. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:25:21 -0500 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Discipline Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Charles writes: > For my 5-9 year olds, usually once a week, I have to play drill > instructor and break out the "Iron Fist of discipline." Amazing how > much better the whole class is and how eager they are to please and be > noticed doing what they are supposed to be doing :-) Hello Charles: I agree completely with changing teaching methods to fit the individuals, and you can probably "sense" this in my previous post. I look at each student as an individual. I hear you about being the "drill sarge" and discipline, although I must admit that this method failed me when I told my now "ex-wife" to do push-ups for being late in class:) Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:32:50 -0500 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Testing Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce writes: > I can also imagine the exhaustion that comes from having to execute > every technique of every > previous belt, or do you take a random selection of techniques from > each rank? Hello Bruce: Yes I do take random samples; however, I ask for enough of them to make it VERY tiresome. I have a reason for this as well. When tired, many people cease to function in the manner they usually do. In a fight, most WILL expand too much energy, and this may cause similar fatigue. I try my best to prepare my students not only for the "art". but I do try to give them some self-defense reality checks along the way. At the end of the test, when they are "well spent", I expect my students to do the breaking. In Kong Shin Bup, if they fail they will not pass. In the other, less demanding art, I teach in my school, students are still expected to do their best; however, passing is not in jeopardy if they fail that portion of the test. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 16:14:53 -0500 From: Bernard Redfield To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Tang Soo Do Hyung Videos Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Here are some sources for Tang Soo Do Videos Tang Soo Do Videos: by CS KIM http://www.internationaltangsoodofederation.com/videos_books.htm by Ho Sik Pak http://www.greatwarriorpak.com/ by Pat Johnson http://w3.blackbeltmag.com/shopping/showContainer.asp?containerID=32 hope this helps bernard --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 16:03:31 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Testing_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Linda: "...... One word also in the way of having your master come and test your students. I am always honored to have my master come and test my students. We do not do it that way every time, but it really makes a testing special in my opinion to have your master there. The students love it and and are encouraged by it........" I am sure that some people read your words and probably shrugged, but I must tell you that what you shared was SO important! I am not sure why more people do not make an effort at this. Maybe its a matter of deciding which way the revenues will go. Maybe its a matter of poor scheduling or travel logistics. I don't know for sure. I simply think that there is so much reward to be had from having a student test in front of their teacher, with the teachers' teacher there to provide affirmation. And, as you say, it does not have to be every time a person gets another tab on their guep rank. But when a person tests for their first belt, maybe their 3rd Guep and certainly when someone tests for the Cho-dan I think this connection among various generations needs to be affirmed loud and clear! Nice comment! Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Randy Mertes" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: opinion poll Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 16:32:12 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I too am 'lurker' but I did want to respond to Mr. Leonard's and Mr. Divetony's comments. I am now 49 (if my memory serves me correctly) and just acheived my 1st dahn rank last year under Master Garrett Dewitt. Mr. Leonard, you are correct, it is worth doing. I have noticed that some of our students don't have the same flexibility (me), or endurance (me again) that some of the others do. We all bring to the school different backgrounds, historys, and interests and so we start at different points. The important thing though is that we all travel the same distance, thanks to our instructors. Master Dewitt doesn't cut any of us slack. That is what makes our school different (and more special) than the other school in town. In a culture that wants to 'dumb down' just about everything we do, there are still places to go in TKD apparently where second best will not be tolerated. I have also noticed that some of the younger students look up to me for what I can do. What they don't see is how badly it hurts. I guess I'll take it (along with my glucosamine). I too would encourage the both of you to keep on keeping on. Randy Mertes --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 16:25:45 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Opinion_Poll?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Rich: "......Back to the second question who has actually seen a perfect technique or form, or was it just much better than what is usually observed?......." This is a toughy. When I watch someone do something, I can usually tease- out some aspect that draws my attention, but to say someone did something "perfectly" would, to me, mean that persons' every aspect left me fixated, and I can't say I have ever seen that--- except maybe with the floor-work phase of Olympic Gymnastics. I have seen people perform hyung at blinding speed only to realize that they did this at the expense of definition. I have seen people do techniques with great definiton but then realized that their fluidity sucked. I have even seen fluid motion but not the sort that comes from grace as much as from smearing one technique into the next. I think what I see most often are people who train hard and it shows in their ever-increasing, consistent, effortless precision. It is the joy of watching someone almost casually accomplish something which I know would tax me to the nth degree that goads me to keep pressing the edges of my envelope. A good example was a three board break I watched once, where the person executed three spinning heel kicks--- middle, low then high-- and broke all three boards. The beauty of the breaks came less from the action than from the demeanor of the person himself. His simple, calm, self-assured manner devoid of any need for recognition put a real touch of class on the entire split-second event. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Art VanVranken" To: Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 17:39:42 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Age in TKD Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hang in there all you older gents. I was 42 when I started in TKD. Now at 55, I still cant keep up with the teens and 20s Students, but as a Third Dan, they come to me for help in the forms and still ask for advice. Pushups are still difficult but I muddle through them. Sometimes beating out the younger students. --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Divetony@aol.com Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 18:53:52 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Opinion Poll - Mr Luttrell Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thank you for the answer about the business. It is along the lines of what I was thinking, including partnering with my instructor. Since I will be moving out of the area it would never be in competition with him for students. He has started to have me train some of the younger student classes (with a qualified instructor present), it's something I enjoy even when my kids are not in the class. Since I do not plan on being an Olympic competitor or a tournament warrior I think teaching is the direction I want to go in. I hope I did not give you the impression that you had to defend your pole, if I did it was not my intention and I apologize. Judging from the responses it was a good starter of dialogue among the martial artists. Thanks, Tony T. --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Divetony@aol.com Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 18:59:08 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: 43 yr old student to Master DEWITT Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thank you for the encouragement and best wishes. As expected the journey as had its peaks and valleys but I enjoy it and have stuck with it so I do not foresee it changing after I reach my Black Belt. It took my 17 years to start again, (I quit because life got in the way in 1987) but I alwats knew I liked it and would try to get back into it. That has helped fuel my desire to take it to this point. Thanks again, Tony T. --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Brian Woodard" To: Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 22:30:03 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Black Belt Test Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net This past Saturday I had the privilege to test for my black belt. I was tested by Grandmaster Duk Sung Son. It was such an honor to except my belt from one the true pioneers of taekwondo. I started my adventure in taekwondo back in 1999 in Kansas with a school teaching the ITF forms. I was expecting to test for black belt in that school in April of 2001 but I had to move the month before. I took about six months to find a school with the style of taekwondo I was looking for when I found the WTA school I now attend. So in October of 2001, I once again proudly put on a white belt and dove right in. I must say every day I find tremendous joy in practicing this art and will continue to as long as I have breath in me... As for now having achieved black belt.... It's just like putting that white belt back on again. I am starting another new journey learning new things and new ways to use the skills that I have learned over the past 5 years at a whole new level. It is also a journey that is changing me as a person from within. Raise a glass of your favorite beverage and toast "Here's to the journey!" Yours in the Arts; Brian Woodard 1st Dan, WTA --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 23:47:31 -0500 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Attitude Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Frank writes: > Will I be as expert of a practitioner as a 20 year old ... or a 55 > year old who has > been working at it for 30+ years? Of course not. But I will be a 54 or > 55 year old who has > achieved something worth doing. Hello Frank: With an attitude like that, you can't go wrong. We need more students like you:) Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest