Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 06:13:07 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #142 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Austin Seminar (Jason Thomas (Y!)) 2. RE: Austin seminar (Jason Thomas (Y!)) 3. Re: Austin seminar (Edward) 4. Re: From Another Group....gun disarm (ABurrese@aol.com) 5. RE: GM Sell (Kip McCormick) 6. RE: Re: zero (Master Mark Seidel) 7. Pushing slide with your chest (michael tomlinson) 8. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Sell's_Credentials?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 9. Tom and EB Sell (Frank Clay) 10. Charles Richard's EB SEll (Frank Clay) 11. Re: From Another Group.....gun disarm (Jye nigma) 12. E.B. Sell (Kevin Luttrell) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Jason Thomas \(Y!\)" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Austin Seminar Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 22:50:12 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Edward, I'm glad that you can join us. But Jackson is more than worth the 10 hour drive. You can't find another event with such a quality group of people, open knowledge sharing, and just plain fun. Jason -----Original Message----- From: Edward [mailto:ep3@austin.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 1:24 AM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Austin Seminar My most favorite part of this seminar in Austin, it is quite literally being held in my neighborhood. I am guessing it will take all of ten minutes in Austin traffic to get there. It certainly beats 10 hours to Jackson, although I will make that drive again for sure. looking forward Edward Rudy Timmerman wrote: Master DeWitt writes: Is this NKMAA seminar still scheduled for March 26th, 27th & 28th? Hello Master DeWitt: Yes, I am leaving for Austin on Thursday with Manfred, and Tim JKN has already left (driving). We hope to see many of our DD friends there, and I hope you can make it yourself if the family issues allow for it. Master Thomas has done a tremendous job in organizing this event, and it looks like we'll have a ball training with some good people for three days. Drive safe everyone:) Sincerely, Rudy _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Jason Thomas \(Y!\)" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Austin seminar Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 22:52:34 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master Mac, You'll be sorely missed, but I can definitely understand the need to spend time at home! I'm glad you made it home safe and look forward to seeing you at the GM West Houston Seminar in June. Jason -----Original Message----- From: Rudy Timmerman [mailto:kwanjang@sympatico.ca] Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 5:51 PM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Austin seminar Master Mac writes: > Been out of town and drove over 3600 miles in the past two weeks, I'm > sure going to miss training with GM Timmerman and Master Thomas' > hospitality this weekend in Austin TX. Hello Master Mac: Great to see you made it back home safe. We will miss you, but I know you will be there in spirit:) I really enjoyed the session you taught at the Houston NKMAA seminar last year, we will miss that too, but there is always next time:) Sincerely, Rudy _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 00:01:34 -0800 From: Edward To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Austin seminar Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello Master Timmerman, I certainly hear what you are saying.  I actually found the drive to Jackson to be quiet peaceful. I met one of your students in Jackson, he was telling me about your drive.  Master Booth may win for greatest distance traveled, but I think you have him beat on true grit. I just really like the idea of  every one comming over to "our house".  I am looking forward to some more hog tying lessons. Looking Forward Edward Rudy Timmerman wrote: Edward writes: My most favorite part of this seminar in Austin, it is quite literally being held in my neighborhood. Hello Edward. I am glad to hear you are coming to work out with us; however, I hope I can instill in you a great desire to go to more such events despite longer distances. Once you are hooked (like I was/am) on training/teaching, a 10 hour drive is a piece of cake just to go get some icing:) For example, I drive each year to Jackson, just to spend time with my friends doing what I like best... teaching and helping a good friend run one of (if not THE) best seminars in North America. The drive from my home to Jackson is about 1200 miles one way. With more people like you attending, and a good organizer like Master Jason Thomas as a host, I hope the Austin seminar will turn into another great event for Hapkido people. Unfortunately my seminar schedule for 2004 is quite hectic which forced us to hold the event too close to the Jackson event, next time we won't have to do that. Sincerely, Rudy _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 4 From: ABurrese@aol.com Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 01:09:03 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: From Another Group....gun disarm Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I just had to make a quick comment, since I cringe when I see posts like this. Especially when someone reports to teach you gun disabling "tricks." I could go on and on about what was wrong with this, but let me first point out the most obvious. The post said: >The Revolver: >A single action (SA) revolver means that you must pull the trigger the >full >length before it will fire. Some single-action/double-action revolvers >allow >you to either pull the full trigger length, or you can cock the hammer >first, there are a few variations in design Without saying anything else, when one is going to post things about guns, they should first make sure they know what they are saying. The above discription is wrong. With a single action revolver, you must cock the hammer back before you can fire. If the hammer is forward, you can pull the trigger all day long and it is not going to fire, and so on. Sorry to sound negative, but it really bothers me when I see people posting, saying, teaching things that are not accurate and can get people killed. I especially like "the gun may go off and it may not" Did you discuss where the gun is pointed? Yeah, I'm a bad ass that can take a gun from someone, so instead of just handing over my wallet or turning and running as fast as possible away from the person with the gun. (which by the way is one of the best defenses there is - not cool, not macho, not something you can later bragg about - but something that increases your odds of staying alive) So I do my fancy gun disarm, I clear the weapon and it discharges, but since I cleared it, I am okay. My wife, who was at my side took the bullet instead, since clearing it caused it to go off and hit her. If not her, maybe the kid or old lady across the street, etc. What if you try this on someone who knows what they are doing with a gun? I need to stop and go do something else, before I go on all night about this stuff. Yours in Training, Alain www.burrese.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Kip McCormick" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] GM Sell Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 01:02:24 -0800 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net And may I add that Tim Walker is the sweetest smelling American in hapkido -- just ask those of us who threw down with him in Jackson! Kip >From: Charles Richards >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [The_Dojang] GM Sell >Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 21:19:47 -0800 (PST) > >"Grandmaster Edward B. Sell is the highest ranked non-oriental in >Taekwondo. His credentials and reputation are world-renowned. >Grandmaster Sell has received the highest recognition, appointments, >and degree of anyone outside of Korea. He has more than 35 years of >experience in the study, training, researching, teaching, and >performing of one of the World's most effective forms of self defense >(Taekwondo Chung Do Kwan). " > >And that would make Chuck Serrif? > >And if he has only 35 years experience that would make him junior to >listmember Grandmaster Rich Hodder (8th Dan) at 40 years in the art of >Taekwondo.... > >No offense, but do a little research before holding someone out as "the >highest ranking blah blah blah..." > >He is indeed the President of one Kwan of Chung Do Kwan Taekwondo and a >verifiable 9th Dan. > > >Sorry, you hit a pet peave... > >Charles Richards >the highest ranking native american in Moja Kwan Tang Soo Do > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. >http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang _________________________________________________________________ Check out MSN PC Safety & Security to help ensure your PC is protected and safe. http://specials.msn.com/msn/security.asp --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Master Mark Seidel" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: zero Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 07:52:58 -0500 Organization: The Midtown Academy Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "Gong" with a combination gk sound in the front Gong Il Ie Sum Sa Oh Yuk Chil Pael Gool Ship Master Mark Seidel Martial Arts /PE Program The Midtown Academy http://www.midtownacademy.org -----Original Message----- From: Klaas Barends [mailto:barends@opurk.nl] Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 8:09 PM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: zero > How do you say zero in Korean? I have searched and not found anything. Kong (°ø) or yung (¿µ) http://www.kordut.com/ (Korean, Dutch, English online dictionary) -- mvg. Klaas Barends http://www.hapkido.nl/ --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 12:55:54 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Pushing slide with your chest Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net < > Most automatics have a slide that is pulled back to cycle the gun. The > > gun can only be fired between cycles. Because of this, one trick is to > > somehow > > push the slide back a bit which actually disables the gun. One cocky > > method: > > suppose someone jabs a gun into your chest. Push your weight into the > > gun enough that it pushes the slide back a small amount, the gun is then > > disabled. The hard part is that the barrel usually won't move, just the > > slide, so try to avoid hitting the barrel while putting pressure on the > > slide. This is by far one of the most ridiculous and dangerous statements I have ever heard anyone say about disarms... even if it would WORK you are putting yourself at more danger by trying it... when you push on a loaded firearm with your chest you might want to think about the FINGER ON THE TRIGGER FIRST!!! unbelievable... Michael Tomlinson _________________________________________________________________ Get reliable access on MSN 9 Dial-up. 3 months for the price of 1! (Limited-time offer) http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup&pgmarket=en-us&ST=1/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 07:00:35 -0600 (CST) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Sell's_Credentials?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Tom: ".....My response is to point out that my TKD school was very nearly associated with Richard Hackworth so, by way of one example, I can say the USCDKA, GM Sell's organization, is more credible than at least one other organization. This one example is sufficient to handle the "anyone else's" part of your question....." I don't know from GM. Sells except to say that he has been through a nearby suburb a few times years back. Pretty much typical promotional/self-promotional fare. What stands out for me is that while I am not a TKD person I think it is safe to say that a person who leaves things in his wake in better condition than when he found them is worthy of respect and regard. There are enough people in the KMA who come through an area, take what they can and move on. I always got the impression that people who left one of Sells' seminars genuinely felt that they had been attended-to and their practice improved for the experience. I understand that his message is as much motivational as it is technical, but I never heard any feedback regarding any kind of "evangelism". FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Frank Clay" To: Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 07:26:34 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Tom and EB Sell Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Tom, I think you need to re-read what I stated. I never said anything derogatory about Mr. Sell. Only that I was preached at by him, which is true. I do not want, nor believe that, TKD, a secular activity, should be an evangelistic tool. That is my prerogative. I personally have a lineage in CDK. I am aligned with Master Lim, who shares the same lineage as Master Sell. I do old style martial art, similar to Son, Duk Sun, the second president of the CDK, and Master Sell does "new style" or Kukkiwon style. There is nothing wrong with that either. Remember, simply because someone does not like your teacher, or see something overly impressive about him is not a reflection on his worth or value. It is an opinion, and you should accept it as such. In my two and half decades in Korean Mudo I have seen many teachers. Some fantastic, and some mediocre. Ed Sell IS legitimate as far as I know, but there is nothing about him that sets him truly apart from other legitimate teachers, which is not necessarily a bad thing... other than he, like many Koreans, calls himself grandmaster. There is no such term used in Korea, and in fact, I have had Koreans, most recently Sun, Book Bae, tell me as much, as well as, indicate that they do not understand what this is supposed to mean. I know that statement will be controversial, but it is accurate. Hope this helps, f. --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Frank Clay" To: Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 07:31:19 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Charles Richard's EB SEll Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Chuck Sereff does not count. Though he was a ninth dan before Ed Sell, he is not Kukkiwon certified. Thanks to politics, ITF TKD was not recognized in the ROK, as it was closely affiliated with the DPRK. Like I said, there are others who are at least as qualified. I try to steer clear of people with big organizations and exorbitant claims. Especially these days. That was one of the appeals of RH, in that he did not do that with me. Of course, I am also finding that he has a different story for different people. What tribe are you? I too am Native American. f. --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 05:33:44 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] From Another Group.....gun disarm To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Not trying to be funny, but I think the guy who wrote that is either inexperienced or a movie watcher...lol. I wanted to stir up some reactions to this, but more importantly get some talk about gun disarms that we all have studied. Now my take on a gun touching my chest would be to turn my body to the side (so I will be out of the path of the barrel) while simultaneously performing a grab on the attackers hand or gun itself delivering a powerful strike. I don't really practice stances, but I practice natural postures. One natural posture is one like when your hands are up like when you're being held up by a gun. From this position the torso can whip to the side where there is minimal movement and the body turns to the side hand grabs gun/hand remaining arm strikes elbow joint and other strikes can be used. What he's talking about will get someone killed. Jye Ray Terry wrote: > The Automatic: > Most automatics have a slide that is pulled back to cycle the gun. The > gun can only be fired between cycles. Because of this, one trick is to > somehow > push the slide back a bit which actually disables the gun. One cocky > method: > suppose someone jabs a gun into your chest. Push your weight into the > gun enough that it pushes the slide back a small amount, the gun is then > disabled. The hard part is that the barrel usually won't move, just the > slide, so try to avoid hitting the barrel while putting pressure on the > slide. This would be -really- difficult to do. I would not recommend even trying it. Moving the slide out of battery might occur during a grab for the weapon, but one should not count on this doing this on purpose. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 05:53:52 -0800 (PST) From: Kevin Luttrell To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] E.B. Sell Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello Mr. Richards, Chuck Sereff is a great TKD man, When I lived in Colorado Springs I used to travel up to his school ocassionally. I was merely stating the facts about G.M. Sell. But since you compared the two....The time training is really only one aspect of one's standing in the martial arts world. I have been training for 26 years. Just because someone trains for a long time doesnt necessarily mean anything. I used to travel to Wichita, Ks to train with the state president of the USTU. Mr. Kim, At that time Was Younger than I and has less training time overall but I still consider him my senior. The quality of his training during his study even though shorter in years than mine but I consider him my senior. Time is important but there are many facets to consider. Sabum Kevin Luttrell The Martial Artist Foundation Springfield, Mo Visit The Martial Artist Foundation Official Website at http://www.geocities.com/taekwondoks/ or join The Martial Artist Foundation Yahoo Group for free and keep up to e on Events: ="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themartialartistfoundation/join"> --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest