Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 03:01:54 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #144 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. GM's again (Charles Richards) 2. Wow....look at this (Jye nigma) 3. ED Sell Conclusion (Frank Clay) 4. Gun defense (J.R. West) 5. Video clip....grappling (Jye nigma) 6. Gum Disarm (Randall Sexton) 7. RE: Dangerous, CRAZY gun defense (martialscience64@earthlink.net) 8. Re: Choi Hong-Hi & Song Duk-Ki (Jye nigma) 9. Re: gun defence (Klaas Barends) 10. Re: Titles, grandmasters etc. (Klaas Barends) 11. gun disarms (michael tomlinson) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:45:03 -0800 (PST) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] GM's again Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >From Frank "Chuck Sereff does not count. Though he was a ninth dan before Ed Sell, he is not Kukkiwon certified. Thanks to politics, ITF TKD was not recognized in the ROK, as it was closely affiliated with the DPRK. Like I said, there are others who are at least as qualified. I try to steer clear of people with big organizations and exorbitant claims. Especially these days. That was one of the appeals of RH, in that he did not do that with me. Of course, I am also finding that he has a different story for different people. What tribe are you? I too am Native American." OK we hit my nerve again, Let's see Hwang Kee is not KKW certified either so I guess His son Hwang, H.C. and all the various TSD folks down the line that have been promoted to 9th Dan by their various orgs don't count either? So are you saying if a kwan is not recognized by the ROK it is not practicing Taekwondo??? Let's see that means folks like Jhoon Rhee and his dsisciples Allen Steen, Stephen Oliver and John Chung "don't count." While we're at it, lets throw in GM Hee Ill Cho of AMAI and all the ATA Songham folks, yes? My great great grandfather was born in 1840 on a plantation in Natchez, MI. Son of the plantation owner and a female slave. The Dawes Commission lists him as Choctaw through his mother. After emancipation he lived in the Bristol/SW Virginia area and married a woman believed to be part caucasian, part african and/or part Cherokee. There are many other blendeds in my tree that are mostly part Cherokee. That'd make me Choctaw Nation, but following your logic above the Choctaw Nation does not recognize caucasian or african as Choctaw so I either "don't count" or am "officially" of the Rainbow Nation. FWIW, native americans do not consider themselves tribes, but independent nations. Seriously, I am poking fun at your "don't count" comment, because IMHO it seems a little tunnel vision. stirring the pot, Charles Richards www.mojakwan.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:53:51 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma To: itf-taekwondo@yahoogroups.com Subject: [The_Dojang] Wow....look at this Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net WONG KIEW KIT'S HOME PAGE QUESTION CONCERNING AIDS PATIENTS --------------------------------- --------------------------------- Question 22 Your FAQ is amazing that I know something of what is real Kungfu if I have a chance to learn. But why Kungfu, Chi Kung and Taijiquan are not suitable for AIDS patients or HIV positive? Could you tell me? Guilherme, Canada Answer 22 I have addressed the questions of AIDS and HIV before in my question-answer series, the latest being in Answer 12 of the April 1999 (Part 2) issue. Firstly, please note I have never mentioned that chi kung, kungfu and taijiquan are not suitable for AIDS patients and those who are HIV positive. In fact, I believe that chi kung will provide the best chance of overcoming AIDS. But I mention that the intensive courses I offer are not suitable for AIDS patients and those with HIV positive. This is because I do not know enough of the effect of chi on the HIV (virus). In particular I am not sure whether the chi resulting from my chi kung course might activate the HIV, thereby causing AIDS. As I have always maintained that a good teacher must be both professional and responsible, I would not be practising what I preach should I accept AIDS or HIV students. Teaching something which I do not fully understand is being unprofessional, subjecting students to possible risk is being irresponsible. The onus of professionalism and responsibility rests with the teacher, not with the students. In other words, even if students with AIDS or HIV approach me saying, "Sifu, we know the risks and are willing to bear them", I would not accept them into my courses. It is like pupils telling their teacher, "Sir, we accept the risk of drowning, but please let us swim in the sea". I also have a responsibility towards other students. Unlike in hospitals or special centres where safety measures are adequate, there are none in my courses. If an accident happens, such as during a self-manifested chi movement exercise an AIDS patient falling onto a healthy student and unwittingly stretching him, the former might pass on the HIV virus to the latter. It is worthwhile to mention here that should any HIV patient think that since he (or she) is already afflicted with the disease, he would not care about the welfare of others, and join my courses under the pretence that he does not have AIDS or is not HIV positive he would be unwise and doing himself a great dis-service. As I have said that I do not know the effect of chi on the HIV, the risk of him aggrevating his problem is real Moreover, what is certain is that if his heart is malicious, he will not only deny himself the chance of a possible cure (which he may get somewhere else), but also deny himself of living his remaining life in a wholesome manner. If he can open his heart, despite his illness, he needs not be miserable. In fact the Chinese terms for being generous and being happy are "opening the chest" and "opening the heart" respectively. Another legitimate question is "If I believe chi kung may turn out to be the best solution for AIDS patients and those who are HIV positives, then why don't I teach these people?" The answer is as follows. I am a teacher, not a researcher. I know my limitations, so I leave the important job of researching into chi kung cure for AIDS for peiople who are better qualified than I am. I want to spend my time in areas where I am sure my effort will bring good results, not in areas where I think it may bring good results. I am confident and competent when dealing with people suffering from diseases like cancer and cardiovascular disorders, as I know what I am doing and have good track records. The need of these people is even more urgent than that of AIDS patients -- the spread of incidence is wider, and the rate of death is higher and often quicker. Cancer affects one out of five persons, and cardiovascular disordders is the top killer. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Frank Clay" To: Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:58:39 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] ED Sell Conclusion Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Tom, No biggie. Misunderstandings happen all the time. Frank --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "J.R. West" To: Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:21:50 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Gun defense Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Those of you that know me, know that I have been .30X39'd a couple of times and I would like to share one or two thoughts......The first time I was shot, I didn't feel ANYTHING! and had it not been for a couple of alert friends, I would have lost enough blood to join the dojang celestial. On another occasion, I was shot at several times from about ten yards away, and although the poor bastard (may he rest in pieces) missed me, I just KNEW I had been hit and actually thought I felt the impact. I would NOT accept the fact that it was just a close call, and I insisted that the dustoff guys medevac me out to get checked out properly. The fact that there was no leakage from any place on my body didn't seem to be conclusive proof at that point...Needless to say, I was very embarrassed but relieved. On another occasion, a VC operated US issue .45 pistol went off near my head, and thankfully missed me by a few inches, but left me TOTALLY incapacitated until all the bells and sirens in my head stopped sounding. It felt worse than being hit...honest! The point of all this is, you don't necessarily have to be shot to be rendered DNIF ("duty not to include functioning", or "drunk, not interested in fighting").....Running is good!....J. R. West www.hapkido.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:37:32 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Video clip....grappling Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net http://www.ninjutsu.co.il/video/throws%20video/edited%20lesson%20no%202%20slow%20motion.wmv --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Randall Sexton" To: Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 12:57:36 -1000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Gum Disarm Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net When someone points a weapon at you, just have a "foaming at the mouth" seizure! For some reason, seizures just freak people out! Randall Sexton www.LaughingHara.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: To: Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:39:40 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Dangerous, CRAZY gun defense Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net ........ In relation to sticking your chest against a loaded firearm and trying to push back the slide. I have been on the receiving end of a loaded 357 magnum pointed at my chest from 3 feet away with a drug crazed jealous junkie on the trigger who wanted to prove my MA couldn't save me. My 1 year old boy...Mike was with me. You know what....... he was right. and wrong. He was injured seriously... compound fracture to his right arm, dislocated elbow and choked out. Then went to prison. I thank God every day. In reference to this gun disarm. Absolutely the most stupid thing I've ever heard (read)...Almost negligent to be telling people of impressionable minds this. Somebody might actually try this. You are entitled to your opinion but think before you speak or write. Greg PS. If this person was speaking from a pure physics standpoint it is possible...... but.... given the elasticity of human flesh and muscle / exact timing / and Bruce lee like reaction time and eyes in the back of your head, your pushing up daisy's Bubba. --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:16:11 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Choi Hong-Hi & Song Duk-Ki To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thank you sir, I posted the page. The site in my opinion was beautiful, the books looked beautiful showing Korean artistry as well. I'd love to study tae kyon. I found the site to be quite informative. As for the other martial art on that site, I was impressed too. bows humbly "Burdick, Dakin R" wrote: Was this a page that Jye had posted, or had you? Whomever posted the link deserves our praise, as it includes some pictures of GM Song that I had never seen before. Good stuff! I have several books on t'aekkyeon and studied it back in the 1980s, and I liked it a lot. There's a lot there that is useful. And GM Song was listed as a national treasure by the Korean government. There was a reason for that! Thomas, try to keep an open mind. And I suggest everyone save that website like I did! :) Yours in the arts, Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 09:57:48 +0800 From: Klaas Barends To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: gun defence Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I especially like "the gun may go off and it may not" Did you discuss where > the gun is pointed? Yeah, I'm a bad ass that can take a gun from someone, so > instead of just handing over my wallet or turning and running as fast as > possible away from the person with the gun. (which by the way is one of > the best > defenses there is - not cool, not macho, not something you can later > bragg about > - but something that increases your odds of staying alive) So I do my fancy > gun disarm, I clear the weapon and it discharges, but since I cleared it, I am > okay. My wife, who was at my side took the bullet instead, since clearing it > caused it to go off and hit her. If not her, maybe the kid or old lady > across the street, etc. And when you run away, you leave her or the kid behind? That's something you certainly will never hear someone brag about. I agree with you, I don't like gun disabling tricks either. The 'technical' information he gives doesn't mean anything to me. I wouldn't know the difference between a gun and a revolver (well, I do know that much). I'd just say: Okay, here you have my wallet, can I please keep my drivers license? Have a nice day. -- mvg. Klaas Barends http://www.hapkido.nl/ --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 10:06:39 +0800 From: Klaas Barends To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Titles, grandmasters etc. Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I have had Koreans, most recently > Sun, Book Bae, tell me as much, as well as, indicate that they do not > understand what this is supposed to mean. I know that statement will be > controversial, but it is accurate. I can agree to that. Koreans have no clue what we mean by 'grandmaster'. And calling yourself grandmaster is just plain ridiculous. (others calling you grandmaster is something else) > Sabum Kevin Luttrell This use is almost correct, but 'Kevin Luttrel Sabum' would be better :-) -- mvg. Klaas Barends http://www.hapkido.nl/ --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 03:09:49 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] gun disarms Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I'm with you Alain, and Ray,, I TRY to bite my lip and just read with an open mind but sometimes things are so ridiculous I HAVE to write a post,,, Michael Tomlinson _________________________________________________________________ Free up your inbox with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage. Multiple plans available. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=hotmail/es2&ST=1/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest