>From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #156 - 16 msgs >Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 06:16:06 -0800 > >Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to > the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang >or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net > >You can reach the person managing the list at > the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net > >When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." > > ><<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> > >Serving the Internet since June 1994. >Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > >The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. >1600 members. > >See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine >for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com > >Pil Seung! > >Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Martial Arts 101 (jeffrey kiral) > 2. New School (Hoshindo5@wmconnect.com) > 3. North Austin Tae Kwon Do Seminar (Vincent DeSalvo) > 4. Re: North vs. South Korea (Christopher Spiller) > 5. Re: Eternal? (Klaas Barends) > 6. RE: Re: ATA (Thomas Gordon) > 7. Say something nice....(was ATA) (Thomas Gordon) > 8. Perseverance (Rudy Timmerman) > 9. Kihap (Randall Sexton) > 10. (no subject) (Dionne Swart) > 11. RE: Re: One Year 1st Dan (Master Mark Seidel) > 12. Hapkido Kihap (Todd Miller) > 13. TKD Emphasizes Kicks? (Lasich, Mark D.) > 14. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Hapkido_Yelling_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) > 15. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_North_vs_South_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) > 16. Hapkido Yelling (Wayne Watkins) > >--__--__-- > >Message: 1 >From: "jeffrey kiral" >To: >Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Martial Arts 101 >Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 22:27:23 -0800 >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >when was this Kukki-TKD developed? my Master learned from his Master the >same way...and I am pretty sure that it was pre-1970-ish HKD from Korea but >I am not entirely sure of the exact date since he died before my Master was >able to learn exactly when it was originally taught to his Master...if that >isn't too hard of a string to follow...:) >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Ray Terry" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 6:13 PM >Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Martial Arts 101 > > > > > I am sorry to differ, but the way that I have been taught is that in >HKD >all > > > the kicks come from the same chamber. This keeps the deception of the >kicks > > > delivery. In TKD not all the kicks come from the same >chamber...compare >the > > > side and roundhouse kicks in TKD, then look at the same kicks in HKD. >I > > > don't know how other schools teach their HKD kicks, but that is how I > > > learned. > > > > It seems you are learning Kukki-TKD kicks (aka new TKD, the TKD taught >in > > Korea) in your HKD school. That is probably not all that uncommon. > > > > Kukki-TKD does the knee forward chamber, developed for competition >purposes. > > Traditional TKD's kicks are more inline with TSD's kicks. In Kukki-TKD > > the front, side, round, axe, etc. kicks all start from the same knee >forward > > position. > > > > Ray Terry > > rterry@idiom.com > > _______________________________________________ > > The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members > > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > > Standard disclaimers apply > > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > >--__--__-- > >Message: 2 >From: Hoshindo5@wmconnect.com >Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 22:28:53 EST >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [The_Dojang] New School >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > Just a quick question for everyone. After 8 years of teaching tkd >at a >dance studio. I am going out on my own and starting my own school. What are >some of the things that I need to look into in getting started. For the >last 8 >years I have been an employee at the studio and now I want to start >teaching >at my own school. > >James > >--__--__-- > >Message: 3 >From: "Vincent DeSalvo" >To: >Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 21:53:51 -0600 >Subject: [The_Dojang] North Austin Tae Kwon Do Seminar >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >The North Austin Tae Kwon Do seminar is over and let me say I had a great >time. I want to thank Grand Master Rudy Timmerman and Master Thomas for >this >weekend of knowledge sharing. Also a big thank you to all the other GM and >Master who came together to share there skills with us. > >I'm looking forward to the next time we are able to get together and build >on >this friendship. Master Thomas I believe next time let's use the mats that >are >stacked up on the side line, carpet just doesn't take the sting out of it >enough. Got to love it to do it, over & over & over. > >--__--__-- > >Message: 4 >Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 20:20:50 -0800 (PST) >From: Christopher Spiller >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: North vs. South Korea >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > >>Question, Hopefully not controversial. Has a lot of >modern TKD, etc. been developed in last 60 years or >so. And if yes is there a similar thing going >on in N. Korea that is not as well known in the west? > >Thanks > >Frank Leonard<< > >In the last 60 years? Yes, I'd say so as Taekwon-Do >didn't develop until the 50's (late 40's for the Chung >Do Kwan, I think?). So, more like 50 years, I guess. > >There is a lot of Taekwon-Do in the DPRK (North >Korea), forst brought there in the 1980s by Gen. Choi >and the ITF. Even with all the political upheaval in >the ITF at the moment I'm sure the North's Taekwon-Do >program isn't going anywhere. I haven't seen the North >Koreans in person but have seen several videos of >their competitors and dome teams at various ITF >events. They are GOOD. > >If you defined "modern TKD" more I'm sure other s will >be able to give you more information. > >Taekwon, > >Chris > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. >http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html > >--__--__-- > >Message: 5 >Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:19:38 +0800 >From: Klaas Barends >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Eternal? >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > > Dude, the man is deceased. It's a title bestowed upon him by his >students. > > Yes, I also think it's a bit strange (I'm not into titles), but it's not > > like he's aware of it. > >In that case the man had/has very strange students. (not that I know any >of them) > >The only other Korean I am aware of with an eternal title is the former >president >of North Korea. Talking about weird. > > > >-- >mvg. Klaas Barends > > http://www.hapkido.nl/ > >--__--__-- > >Message: 6 >From: "Thomas Gordon" >To: >Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: ATA >Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 23:35:51 -0600 >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >Mr. Stovall, > >"The flip side of that is I've also seen some ATA folks who have kicks >that will make your jaw hit the floor. Again, I think everyone >acknowledges that there are some VERY good TKD players that can be found >in the ATA." > >Absolutely. I have seen some of the finest kicks come from ATA folks. >And that's why it bugs me so much. How can a person spend so much time >getting *their* kicks so good and yet their students don't do anything >that even resembles a side kick. > ><<me about their "programs." Black Belt Club is $3000, Master's Club is >$5000, and Leadership program is $7000. Testings, uniforms, sparring >gear, and tournaments were extra and not included in the $3000/5000/7000 >program.>>> > >"Good grief!!! What's the basic difference in these programs? What do >they entail?" > >Mr. Stovall, I hate to say this...you seem like a fairly smart >fella...but the difference is that they go up $2000 each time. Gee I >crack myself up! LOL! > >From what I understand, basic program only offers forms and one steps. >Some ATA schools offer a generic taekwondo where forms aren't even >learned. > >Black belt club carries you from white to 1st degree. > >Master Club offers weapons and goes up to third degree (maybe >higher...not sure) > >Leadership offers even more weapons and allows you to get rated for >state championships. Supposedly, it is intended for those that show an >interest in owning a school or teaching martial arts. What teaching has >to do with being ranked in the state is beyond me. > >Here's an interesting link: > >http://www.brandonsata.com/Program_Comparison_Chart.htm You'll notice >that joint locks and ground fighting is ONLY for the Leadership people. > >http://www.brandonsata.com/Classes_and_Programs.htm A breakdown of each >program. > >Best regards, > >Thomas Gordon >Florida > >--__--__-- > >Message: 7 >From: "Thomas Gordon" >To: >Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 23:35:51 -0600 >Subject: [The_Dojang] Say something nice....(was ATA) >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >I appreciate the "nice people" of the world that don't want to hurt >anyone's little delicate feelings. Really, I do. I also appreciate the >people that tell it like it is. When something is represented as fact >and we know it's not, I feel we have an obligation to speak up. > >For example, if you know that some guy in Central Florida is >misrepresenting his rank and selling rank that isn't legit, I'd >appreciate someone letting me know before I kick some money his way. I >get down there, spend my money, find out he's a lie, and then ask one of >you "nice people" why you didn't tell me. Then we hear, "Oh, because I >didn't have anything nice to say...so I didn't say anything at all." >Yeah, that's "real nice." I can't tell ya how warm and fuzzy I get >because you sleep well at night being such a "nice person" while unwary >people are being misled. > >Please pardon the rant - enough of that soap box. > >Thomas Gordon >Florida > >--__--__-- > >Message: 8 >Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 00:46:11 -0500 >From: Rudy Timmerman >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [The_Dojang] Perseverance >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >Jon writes: > > I'm not new to the Martial Arts by any stretch and my reasons for > > practicing haven't changed > > much over the years, but I do like what you wrote and will evaluate > > myself accordingly. > >Hello Jon: >Your post gave me an opportunity to address what I have found to happen >in my dojang over the years, and I am grateful for that. It seems that >the gung ho students with all the talent just don't last, and they are >often overtaken by those who persevere despite their shortcomings. >Hence I have gone to value those other attributes more and more as time >went by. > >I also found that becoming a better person was a nice by product of >martial art training. I never joined martial arts to become a nicer >person either, as I just was tired of getting my butt kicked when I was >a kid. Over the years, as I learned just how easy it was to hurt >someone (or get hurt), I became a bit more mellow. I believe I have >become a better person because of the martial arts; however, I know >there are some who would argue that, at least they keep telling folks I >am a mean sucker. That only goes to show that you can't believe what >your hear:) In closing, I thank you, Mark, and Master DeWitt for your >kind comments. I appreciate it:) >Sincerely, >Rudy > >--__--__-- > >Message: 9 >From: "Randall Sexton" >To: >Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 19:51:40 -1000 >Subject: [The_Dojang] Kihap >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > ><> > >Once you reach a certain level, the kihap can be done internally and >quietly...just make sure no one is standing nearby! > >Randall Sexton >www.USAHealthcareCrisis.com > >--__--__-- > >Message: 10 >From: "Dionne Swart" >To: >Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:16:22 +0200 >Subject: [The_Dojang] (no subject) >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >Good Day all > >I have been trained in Kung Fu, Kickboxing and Kyokushinkai Karate. In the >kickboxing and karate I have a 4th dan. In the kung fu I have only been >practising for 5 years. > >I am interested in changing over to TKD. Are there many big changes or >would >the change be a relativly easy one. I understand that I cannot start at >black. >I don't mind starting at white belt and working my way up. > >Just some advice would be a great help. Also does anyone know of any good >TKD >places in Durban South Africa > >Thanks in Advance > >Dionne Swart > >--__--__-- > >Message: 11 >From: "Master Mark Seidel" >To: >Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: One Year 1st Dan >Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 06:45:51 -0500 >Organization: The Midtown Academy >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >I think the key word you use is "played", Sport Martial Arts and using them >{martial skills} in a real situation are completely two different >experiences. One you know you will live the other you don't. > >Getting a Black Belt in one year is no different then learning to read in >one year, as the one year reader will not be digesting "War and Peace". The >one year Black Belt could not fare well against a season street fighter. > >The Martial Artist seasoned by proper instruction and practice of the Art, >philosophies and discipline and not the sport will most likely never use >his/her skill in a real situation. > >Master Mark Seidel >Martial Arts /PE Program >The Midtown Academy >http://www.midtownacademy.org > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Jonathan D. Payne [mailto:payne1224@gt.rr.com] >Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 11:33 PM >To: the_dojang >Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: One Year 1st Dan > > >>From my experience there is a difference in skill, ability, and >knowledge >in a person who gets to 1st dan in one year vs. a person who gets to 1st >dan >in 3 years. >> > >That hasn't been my experience, I think you either have fighting skills, >or >you don't. Maybe it's just a "combat mind-set". I might be tooting my own >horn, but I was fighting these "3" year black belts when I was 14 (I'm now >34). After training for one year I routinely out fought 99% of them. It >really didn't seem to matter who their instructor was or what style they >studied. I really don't think I'm that special or gifted, so I would hope >some other list members have had similar experiences. I've played at >Taekwondo, Kajukembo,Shorin-Ryu, Combat Hapkido, and Tukong Moosul. I've >seen real good one year 1st Dans and 13 year 3rd Dans who were awful. I >still don't think time is the issue. My 1st and best Master is GM Choi >John >Jung from Lake Charles LA he had good students and some not so good. In >closing the only standard's that matter are between you and your Sabum. > >Jon David Payne > >--__--__-- > >Message: 12 >From: "Todd Miller" >To: >Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 07:02:20 -0500 >Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkido Kihap >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > I just don't >understand what all the yelling's about. Is it a KHF thing? I appreciate >any and all comments to clarify this for me. > >It is my understanding that in the original Hapkido taught by the founder >kihap's were used. Take a look at Hapki then reverse it and you have >kihap, >Hapkid is the soft flowing inner energy and the kihap is strong/sharp >outward energy. Grandmaster Lim, Hyun Soo (Doju Nim Choi, Yong Sool's >longest running student) said that Doju Nim Choi could cause you to >collapse >with his kihap! The kihap is generally used at the finnishing of a >technique. > >Take care >Todd Miller >Korea Jungki Hapkido & Guhapdo Association >www.millersmudo.com > >--__--__-- > >Message: 13 >From: "Lasich, Mark D." >To: "Dojang (E-mail)" >Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:00:31 -0500 >Subject: [The_Dojang] TKD Emphasizes Kicks? >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >I have heard this time and time again - in fact I have probably said it >myself: Taekwondo emphasizes kicks! > >What does this really mean? > >The Songahm TKD white belt form has 18 moves, 4 of which are kicks. 22% >Cho Dan form has 81 moves, 19 of which are kicks. 23% > >If I remember correctly, the Chang Hun forms do not introduce kicks in the >first several forms. TSD (I know, we're talking about TKD, but still.....) >it's not until PyungAhn Ee dan! Even then, I wouldn't say the percentage of >kicks would be indicative of "emphasizing" kicks! > >So where does this phrase come from????? Sparring? I would hope so. I for >one would much rather utilize a tool-set that gives me more reach, while >keeping the bulk of me at a safer distance. > >Can the non-TKD players out there comment on their sparring style? Is it >closer in, lending itself to more hand techniques and take downs? Even >after a take down, I would still want to kick (it's easier when they are on >the floor ;-) > >Does this come from TKD in comparison to non-Korean arts? Chinese perhaps - >while I don't have any experience, I "sense" there is more of an emphasis >on hand techniques in Chinese arts. Why not say Tai Chi emphasizes hand >techniques????? > >Just curious where the phrase "TKD Emphasizes Kicks" really, really comes >from. > >In the spirit, >Mark > >--__--__-- > >Message: 14 >Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 07:32:47 -0600 (CST) >From: >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Hapkido_Yelling_?= >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >Dear James: > >"......This was my first exposure to Master Whalen and Fabian. I just >don't >understand what all the yelling's about. Is it a KHF thing? I appreciate >any and all comments to clarify this for me....." > >If it is of any help at all I can share that in Yon Mu Kwan Hapkido, GM >Myung placed considerable emphasis on breathing when executing such >techniques as shoulder and hip throws as well as the ever-popular >Firemans' Throw. In many styles of the Hapkido arts, throws and >projections are executed with the person receiving the throw allowed >to "sit-out" or sit-down with the technique. I have seen this quite a bit >in schools which do not use significant matting. However, learning to >take a full breakfall from a throw, or execute an air-roll so that ones' >partner can use significantly more authority in their performance of the >technique, requires a significant amount of breath control in order to >avoid having the breath knocked out inadvertantly. I will also mention >that conditioning of the back and hip muscles as well as the legs and >arms is much recommended for the sort of Hapkido practiced by Master >Whalen (and myself). You don't have to be a body-builder, but I am >currently recovering from not sufficiently warming-up before an activity >and know that it would not have been an issue had I been more consistent >on my regular conditioning schedule. FWIW. > >Best Wishes, > >Bruce > >--__--__-- > >Message: 15 >Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 07:37:24 -0600 (CST) >From: >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_North_vs_South_?= >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >Dear Ray: > >"......TKD is a very new name, new since the Korean War. It seems that >TKD made its >way into NK via the ITF and NK's (close?) relationship with Gen. Choi of >the ITF... all this occurring within the last 10 or 15 or ?? years....." > >I, too, have been very much interested in why one cannot network with >various representatives from NK regarding ITF. Do they have some >spokesperson or representative? Is there a clearinghouse for inquiries? >Some time back I had an address that was posted here and sent a couple of >e-mails but heard nothing in return. I would be willing to get involved >with drawing these folks into our community if I can just find a venue >for doing it. Comments? > >Best Wishes, > >Bruce > >--__--__-- > >Message: 16 >Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 07:55:21 -0600 >From: "Wayne Watkins" >To: >Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkido Yelling >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >When my instructor, Master West, was beginning his HapKiDo education in >Viet Nam, while assigned to the Koreans, he asked the question to the >one English speaking Korean "When do we learn to yell?" The head >instructor was approached and his answer was very simple "Yelling very >bad in jungle, attract to much attention" > >We do not yell in our school. We do kihap, but we do it quietly. > >Wayne Watkins >wwatkins@holmescc.edu > > >--__--__-- > >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang >http://the-dojang.net > >Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang > >Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com >Standard disclaimers apply. >Remember September 11. > > >End of The_Dojang Digest