Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 19:37:03 -0800
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See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine
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Pil Seung!

Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Hapkido Yelling (Ray Terry)
   2. Re: Martial Arts 101 (Ray Terry)
   3. Seminars (Rudy Timmerman)
   4. Re North vs South Korea (Manuel Maldonado)
   5. RE: North Austin Tae Kwon Do Seminar (Jason Thomas (Y!))
   6. New TKD sparring kicks (Burdick, Dakin R)
   7. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Kung_Fu_and_Kicking_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com)
   8. Alain's Video Review (FirstPe315@aol.com)
   9. Dionne's questions (FirstPe315@aol.com)
  10. Wallace in '77 (Dunn, Danny J GARRISON)
  11. kiap (Chris Hamilton)
  12. Moo Duk Kwan (Charles Richards)
  13. WARNING  -- Will Robinson (Patrick L)
  14. RE: TKD and Self-defense (Stovall, Craig)
  15. Why TKD? (Bert Edens)
  16. appology to Master Miller (Ray Terry)
  17. International Ch'ang-Hon Taekwon Do Federation (Ray Terry)
  18. RE: WARNING  -- Will Robinson (Thomas Gordon)

--__--__--

Message: 1
From: Ray Terry <rterry@idiom.com>
Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Hapkido Yelling
To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:41:20 -0800 (PST)
Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net

In the original Hapkido as taught by Gm Ji (sorry, couldn't resist) there
is more than one type of kihap, or vocalization, that is employed.  I
quite frankly do not remember all of them now (5 or 7 as I recall), but the 
vocalization made varys with the type of attack one is executing.

Ray Terry
rterry@idiom.com

--__--__--

Message: 2
From: Ray Terry <rterry@idiom.com>
Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Martial Arts 101
To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:52:06 -0800 (PST)
Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net

> <<Yes, HKD will stress low kicks far more than will TKD, but that doesn't
> change the kick.>>
> 
> <<We in TSD (TKD, too, I think) tend to yell a LOT, and have on occasion
> been known to startle some of those HapKiDo folks :-)) >>
> 
> There are kicks in hapkido that are low specific. That is they only work for
> low kicks and are not found in taekwondo, at least not in any taekwondo
> dojang that I have seen. I do not know if they are in shinmoo. 

Yes, Sinmoo HKD has many low kicks.  Of the 25 basic kicks, I think ~9
are low targeted kicks.  3 are knee-ing "kicks". 

Many/some TKD dojangs will practice low target variations of kicks, e.g. 
low roundhouse, low back spinkick, side kick to the knees, etc. during 
self-defense aspects of training.  Of course that will vary greatly from 
school to school.  Sweeps may also be taught.

Ray Terry
rterry@idiom.com

--__--__--

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 12:44:36 -0500
From: Rudy Timmerman <kwanjang@sympatico.ca>
To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net
Subject: [The_Dojang] Seminars
Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net

Vincent writes:
> I'm looking forward to the next time we are able to get together and 
> build on
> this friendship. Master Thomas I believe next time let's use the mats 
> that are
> stacked up on the side line, carpet just doesn't take the sting out of 
> it
> enough.

Hello Vincent:
Thank you for your kind comments, and I too hope to continue to build 
on the friendships we began or continued from previous seminars.  I 
believe it is a great way to share information PLUS get to know one 
another.  Our seminar model (soon to be put into action) will continue 
to focus on having some sort of social event right alongside of that 
for this very purpose.  As far as the mats go.  We placed them there so 
folks who wanted them could just grab one.  Some people, myself in 
particular, don't care to use mats (I am not sure what my students 
think of that though:).

Just to make sure that we have everyone on our e-mailing list for 
seminars, I would like to have anyone who wishes to be informed of 
events to please e-mail me.  I will then make sure that we give you a 
heads up anytime we have something going on.  I would send Master West 
or Instructor Watkins your e-mail address as well, so you are sure not 
to miss any of the USKMAF seminars.
Sincerely,
Rudy

--__--__--

Message: 4
From: "Manuel Maldonado" <sudomakki2003@hotmail.com>
To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:43:25 -0800
Subject: [The_Dojang] Re North vs South Korea
Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net

If my memory of history serves me right. Gen Choi went to DPRK seeking
$$$ for the ITF since in a way it was broke. South Korea didnt want
anything to do with Gen Choi. As a matter of fact its not a North Korea
art its an International art. Gen Choi didnt want any politcs involved in
Taekwon-Do. Tae Kwon Maldonado Song Seng

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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--__--__--

Message: 5
From: "Jason Thomas \(Y!\)" <syne7@yahoo.com>
To: <the_dojang@martialartsresource.net>
Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] North Austin Tae Kwon Do Seminar
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 11:52:20 -0600
Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net

Mr. DeSalvo,

	Thanks for the kind words and I truly appreciate it.  I was very
surprised that no one used the mats (That's what I brought them for :)).
The seminar great experience for me as well and I was extremely pleased to
see so many new faces and to open our circle of friends and training
partners.

Regards,

Jason

-----Original Message-----
From: Vincent DeSalvo [mailto:vincentd@nctv.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 9:54 PM
To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net
Subject: [The_Dojang] North Austin Tae Kwon Do Seminar

The North Austin Tae Kwon Do seminar is over and let me say I had a great
time.  I want to thank Grand Master Rudy Timmerman and Master Thomas for
this
weekend of knowledge sharing. Also a big thank you to all the other GM and
Master who came together to share there skills with us.

I'm looking forward to the next time we are able to get together and build
on
this friendship. Master Thomas I believe next time let's use the mats that
are
stacked up on the side line, carpet just doesn't take the sting out of it
enough. Got to love it to do it, over & over & over.

--__--__--

Message: 6
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 12:53:04 -0500
From: "Burdick, Dakin R" <burdickd@indiana.edu>
To: <the_dojang@martialartsresource.net>
Subject: [The_Dojang] New TKD sparring kicks
Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net

Kim Farral mentioned similar chambers for all kicks taught by Bill
Wallace in the 1980s.  Good source!  Those kinds of chambers came from
sport karate in the 1970s and 1980s, and Bill is an expert in that
style.  I hope people check him out these days, because he is giving
away all the stuff he never used to show.  He has fakes and set-ups for
every body part and he shows them all these days!  This New TKD style
sounds painful the way Kim describes it:

"the upper body twists and lower body pivots for round house and side
kicks...where they typically do not in the New TKD sparring style"

OW!  Can you say hip and lower back damage?  I think you can!

Take care,

Dakin
dakinburdick@yahoo.com

--__--__--

Message: 7
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 12:01:14 -0600 (CST)
From: <bsims@midwesthapkido.com>
To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net
Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Kung_Fu_and_Kicking_?=
Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net

Dear Frank: 

".....Your statement about CMA is inaccurate. My first set was a set 
called Chan
Ch'uan. It features prominently a butterfly kick, tornado kick, side kick 
and
crescent kicks. But it's a Northern style. If you were to look at Southern
you'd see much fewer kicks......" 

Are you able to provide any more information on this form or its 
associated Boxing style?  Are we talking pre- or post- 1920-s? Can you 
pare down "Northern" to any particular lineage (Hong, Red Fist, Long Fist, 
etc.) I am quite sure that the Koreans didn't need the Japanese to teach 
them how to kick. And from all that I have been reading Shandong province 
has been home to a long line of contencious boxing populations. Personally 
I think it would be great to broaden our understanding of just how Korean 
kicking relates to Chinese kicking. I know in the MYTBTJ there is actually 
very little kicking in the KWON BUP chapter. That would suggest to me that 
most of what we know now was not considered worthy of martial 
consideration (too long a training time to become facile; not appropriate 
for a battlefield application). Either that, or maybe kicking was simply 
transmitted more as a civil art and sport activity than we have been 
encouraged to believe. 

Best Wishes, 

Bruce 

--__--__--

Message: 8
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 13:03:34 -0500
From: FirstPe315@aol.com
To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net
Subject: [The_Dojang] Alain's Video Review
Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net

Alain-

Very interesting.  The first 2 throws I teach my students are Outside Reaping Throw (O-sotogari to the Judoka in here) and Basic Hip Throw (O-goshi).

Is it true that great minds think alike?  I hope so.

Jeff

--__--__--

Message: 9
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 13:30:50 -0500
From: FirstPe315@aol.com
To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net
Subject: [The_Dojang] Dionne's questions
Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net

Dionne-

Why do you want to switch from Kyokushinkai to TKD.  Although I am a TKD proponent (the non-Olympic Sparring type - but that's just me), I have found that Kyokushinkai as well as Sabaki (as I train with a few of those boys) is quite nasty and tough.  Far tougher than the "traditional" TKD stuff.

If you are ranked that high, you must be very well-versed in that.  Why the switch?  

Just curious of course.

Jeff

--__--__--

Message: 10
From: "Dunn, Danny J GARRISON" <danny.dunn@us.army.mil>
To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'"
  <the_dojang@martialartsresource.net>
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 13:12:05 -0600
Subject: [The_Dojang] Wallace in '77
Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net

<<<<<<<Btw:...that concept was taught to me in 1985 by Bill Wallace...I use it
as a training method for balance...>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Interesting Tink,

I got the same thing from Bill Wallace in 1977.

Danny Dunn

--__--__--

Message: 11
From: "Chris Hamilton" <chamilton@ezlock.net>
To: <the_dojang@martialartsresource.net>
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 13:21:21 -0600
Subject: [The_Dojang] kiap
Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net

<<I just don't understand what all the yelling's about.  Is it a KHF
thing?  I appreciate any and all comments to clarify this for me.>>

If you are not compelled to kiap to protect yourself, your partner's
techniques might be lacking in intensity. Kiap is not intended to be a
cue, or warning, but a way of strengthening yourself physically and
mentally. 

Although people have many theories on the application of kiap, it works
best for me precisely at the moment of impact with a kick or punch
(giving or receiving), at the point of no return on a throw, or
precisely when you hit the mat after a hard throw.

Cultivation of a good kiap is essential for giving a sharp focus to your
techniques, as well as conditioning your body for breakfalls. 

Chris - HMD in BR

--__--__--

Message: 12
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 12:04:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Charles Richards <mojakwan@yahoo.com>
To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net
Subject: [The_Dojang] Moo Duk Kwan
Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net

Master Danny Dunn Posts
"I believe that would be a result of a suit filed against Grandmaster 
Shin, Jae Chul when he left the "US Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan
Federation" (which he founded representing GM Hwang Ki in the US in
1968) and formed the World Tang Soo Do Association in 1982.  The court
ruled in favor of Grandmaster Shin that Tang Soo Do was a common use
term and could not be trademarked in and of itself.
Incidentally, I believe that also began the movement by the Moo Duk 
Kwan to use the term Soo Bahk Do which GM Hwang was able to trademark
to distinguish itself as different. Thus the changes in GM Hwang's 1995
book."

Danny,

I started to post that answer but mine would have been more
paraphrased...Anyway I asked Shin Kwan Jang Nim about this one of the
times I was assigned to pick him up at the airport, get him to the
event, etc...He basically shared the above and just indicated it was a
big mess.  Think about it, leaving your org. and Kwan Jang, and then
getting sued by him...He didn't really go into a lot of detail either
as I was only a CHo Dan or E Dan at the time, but this is true, and
since the courts ruled against Hwang Kwan Jang, I can see his reason
for Soo Bahk Do.

Yours in jung do,

Charles Richards
www.mojakwan.com


__________________________________
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--__--__--

Message: 13
From: "Patrick L" <musashi1953@hotmail.com>
To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 12:26:34 -0800
Subject: [The_Dojang] WARNING  -- Will Robinson
Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net

Dear Mr. Gordon,

Don't drink, don't gamble, don't run with fast women, and don't blame others 
for someone else's lack of character, and your failure at due diligence.  I 
hope I have helped.  :)

Getting in the Way,

Patrick

>For example, if you know that some guy in Central Florida is
misrepresenting his rank and selling rank that isn't legit, I'd
appreciate someone letting me know before I kick some money his way.  I
get down there, spend my money, find out he's a lie, and then ask one of
you "nice people" why you didn't tell me.  Then we hear, "Oh, because I
didn't have anything nice to say...so I didn't say anything at all."
Yeah, that's "real nice."  I can't tell ya how warm and fuzzy I get
because you sleep well at night being such a "nice person" while unwary
people are being misled.

Please pardon the rant - enough of that soap box.

Thomas Gordon<

_________________________________________________________________
Check out MSN PC Safety & Security to help ensure your PC is protected and 
safe. http://specials.msn.com/msn/security.asp

--__--__--

Message: 14
From: "Stovall, Craig" <CStovall@nucorar.com>
To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:34:26 -0600
Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: TKD and Self-defense
Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net

Dakin writes,

<<<Yep.  One of my favorite criticisms of TKD players is that they tend to
jump away from their attacker to get to kicking distance, and then feel very
confident of their skills, ie.  "Ha!  Now I have you!"  Good stuff from tkd
is the front kick and the spinning back kick -- very powerful techniques!
>>>

Yep, one of the places I used to train would have people hold those huge
foam kicking shields and come rushing at you.  The object was to stop them
dead in their tracks (or even knock them back) with your power kick...i.e.,
front kick, side kick, spinning back kick.  You had to be careful for
safety's sake, but once you got it down you could really let loose.  The
lesson was very simple...if you can't stop the person with the shield,
you've got no business trying to throw that kick in a real fight.  They will
either bowl you over, or easily capture the leg.

<<<And as bad as TKD distance control is, it is still better than those HKD
schools that don't spar at all.  I remember playing with some HKD guys who
were much better kickers than I was, but because they had never sparred I
could evade them by just moving back a few inches and then move into range
and hit them.  Fun!>>>

Yep, goes back to the issue of 'aliveness'.  Even though sparring is full of
rules, there is that intangible benefit of working against a resisting
opponent.  Someone that is trying to thwart your movement and techniques
while landing their own.  It never continues to amaze me that there are
people out there who think they're learning to "swim", but they never get
into the "water".



CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE 

This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information
intended only for the use of the individual or entities named above.  If
this email was received in error or if read by a party which is not the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
disclosure, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly
prohibited.   If you have received this communication in error or are unsure
whether it contains confidential or privileged information, please
immediately notify us by email or telephone.  You are instructed to destroy
any and all copies, electronic, paper or otherwise, which you may have of
this communication if you are not the intended recipient.  Receipt of this
communication by any party shall not be deemed a waiver of any legal
privilege of any type whatsoever as such privilege may relate to the sender.

--__--__--

Message: 15
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:56:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Bert Edens <bedensatwork@yahoo.com>
To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net
Subject: [The_Dojang] Why TKD?
Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net

> From: "Dionne Swart" <dionnes@omegacontainer.co.za>
> Subject: [The_Dojang] (no subject)
> 
> Good Day all

Greetings!

> I have been trained in Kung Fu, Kickboxing and
> Kyokushinkai Karate. In the
> kickboxing and karate I have a 4th dan. In the kung
> fu I have only been
> practising for 5 years.

Congrats on your past training!

> I am interested in changing over to TKD. Are there
> many big changes or would
> the change be a relativly easy one. I understand
> that I cannot start at black.
> I don't mind starting at white belt and working my
> way up.

First, why TKD? I'm sure some of the current threads
are covering how much kicking TKD does, but the style
typically will a lot. Depending on the style, you may
find more hand techniques that what you might expect. 

I know I went to an open tournament and one of my
competitors saw "taekwon-do" on my uniform patch and
said to his coach that he'd just have to stay inside
my kicking range (I'm 6'3"). Once I got up 3-0 quickly
with backfists and lead jabs to the head, he quickly
changed tactics. He still lost 5-1 though. :)

Anyway, just check it out and see if the feel of the
school is right. That's more important than the style.
With your experience, I'm sure concepts and concepts
and you'll pick it up quickly.

> Thanks in Advance
> Dionne Swart

Best of luck in your search and future training!

<<bows>>

- Bert Edens
  Springdale, Arkansas


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

--__--__--

Message: 16
From: Ray Terry <rterry@idiom.com>
To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:12:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [The_Dojang] appology to Master Miller
Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net

Sorry Master Miller.  I read your kihap vs. hapki post too early this AM
and therefore misread it.  I shouldn't have popped off like I did...

Ray Terry
rterry@idiom.com

--__--__--

Message: 17
From: Ray Terry <rterry@idiom.com>
To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang)
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 17:47:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [The_Dojang] International Ch'ang-Hon Taekwon Do Federation
Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net

forwarding...


We would like to take this opportunity to introduce The International
Ch'ang-Hon Taekwon Do Federation.
Our organization was established on the 24th of October, 2003 in St.
Albert, Alberta, Canada.

The members who run the federation, are supported by our honorary
president Grand Master Nam Tae Hi, and our president Grand Master Kong, 
Young Il.

The ICTF is trying to re-establish the true pioneers of Taekwon-do, since
many members of the ITF have divided following the death of our great 
founder General Choi Hong Hi.

Our goals are to find and pave a better and more democratic path for our
instructors and students of the past and future.

We will continue to teach, promote and preserve the art of Taekwon-do in
the matter that was taught to us by our late founding father General Choi 
Hang Hi.

If you would like know more about the ICTF the following link will take
you to our website where further information can be acquired.

http://www.ictf-web.com/

Respectfully,

Membership Committee

--__--__--

Message: 18
From: "Thomas Gordon" <tgordon@gordonmartialarts.com>
To: <the_dojang@martialartsresource.net>
Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] WARNING  -- Will Robinson
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 22:02:22 -0600
Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net

LOL!  Thank you Mr. Patrick L.

Gave up those things when I got married.  I'd make a funny joke here but
one of you clowns would give it to my bride and I'd be in deep trouble.
:)    

In regards to blaming others for someone else's lack of character -
well, you know the saying, "birds of a feather..."  Besides, a fella
can't soar with the eagles when they scurry with the roaches.  Of
course, the roaches will survive a nuclear fallout and rarely get sucked
into jet engines...

Thanks again for the words of wisdom.  

Best regards,

Thomas Gordon
Florida

 

 


-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick L [mailto:musashi1953@hotmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 2:27 PM
To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net
Subject: [The_Dojang] WARNING -- Will Robinson


Dear Mr. Gordon,

Don't drink, don't gamble, don't run with fast women, and don't blame
others 
for someone else's lack of character, and your failure at due diligence.
I 
hope I have helped.  :)

Getting in the Way,

Patrick

>For example, if you know that some guy in Central Florida is
misrepresenting his rank and selling rank that isn't legit, I'd
appreciate someone letting me know before I kick some money his way.  I
get down there, spend my money, find out he's a lie, and then ask one of
you "nice people" why you didn't tell me.  Then we hear, "Oh, because I
didn't have anything nice to say...so I didn't say anything at all."
Yeah, that's "real nice."  I can't tell ya how warm and fuzzy I get
because you sleep well at night being such a "nice person" while unwary
people are being misled.

Please pardon the rant - enough of that soap box.

Thomas Gordon<

_________________________________________________________________
Check out MSN PC Safety & Security to help ensure your PC is protected
and 
safe. http://specials.msn.com/msn/security.asp
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