Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 03:01:51 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #159 - 1 msg X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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RE: Re: ATA (Thomas Gordon) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Thomas Gordon" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: ATA Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 22:07:37 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Stanley, First off, I made a mistake with the link I sent in. At Brandon's ATA, it appears the "Master Program" is the top. When talking to Master Clark's salesperson, I was told Leadership was the top. Money and martial arts is a sore subject. Probably always will be. I don't mind someone offering various courses for different prices. I ate lunch today for $8. That got me a hamburger plate (pretty good, I must say). I didn't feel robbed because the menu offered a $22 steak and they didn't offer it to me since I was a patron. $22 was more than I wanted to spend (or eat at lunch time). Now I realize there is a huge difference between lunch and martial art training that will change someone's life. But, in the business viewpoint, a steak costs more than a hamburger. Offering more classes/courses/programs means more instructors, longer hours, higher power bills, etc. Then we get the argument that an instructor should offer everything they know for $XX a month. Well, what if a student has no interest in "everything" the instructor knows. Should they pay the same price as everyone else who may want every course/program/class? I could see a school offering Taekwondo and Hapkido. Both are fairly different and have their own belt system. I could also understand someone offering a program that allows a student to come two days a week and another program that is unlimited. Some people only want to come twice a week so they would pay less than the person that is there if the door is open. So I can see the argument from both sides. At our school, we have one program and everyone pays the same price. However, there's a possibility that we'll offer different programs down the road as our school gets larger. What we won't do is make people feel like they are getting "okay" training because mommy & daddy won't put out another $2000-8000. The problem I have with the link I sent in earlier (http://www.brandonsata.com/Program_Comparison_Chart.htm) is the "rewards" built into the various programs. For example, you can't be ranked in your state unless you're in the Leadership Program. What does being an instructor have to do with competition? That's just a way to force people into becoming instructors so they can chase the titles. And as Mr. Dante James said, it basically promotes "babies having babies" because some of these people are sporting assistant instructor collars when they're color belts. They'll easily be instructors by second degree (if not first). Also, in ATA, weapons are required for upper belts so a person will be forced into other programs if they wish to progress. Then there is the part we don't see with the extremely high pressure sales tactics that plague many of the ATA schools in my area. One mother brought her child to our school because she said she was tired of leaving her wallet at home when she took her child to class. Another lady came in because she was told it was $1800 to go from first degree to second degree PLUS testing fees and midterms. In addition, from what I understand, the contract read that she could not work out anywhere else until she achieved her second degree. So there it is in a nutshell. (You should see the long version...) Thomas Gordon PS. If you love little Johnny, you'll let me upsale you to the Leadership program for only $7000!! (I've heard as much as $10,000) Today only...cash...or we can finance at 24% that you'll still be paying when little Johnny has "little Johnny's" of his own. -----Original Message----- From: Stovall, Craig [mailto:CStovall@nucorar.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 10:32 AM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: ATA Mr. Thomas "Nice Guy" Gordon writes, <<>> Wow. So, in other words, one's journey in the arts is ultimately constrained by the amount of money one is willing and able to bring to the table. Work as hard and as long as you please, but the "premium stuff" is only available to those with some cash. I can think of a lot of adjectives to describe such a system, but "egalitarian" would not be one of them. Oh well. Thanks for the info. Craig "And to Think I Coach for Free" Stovall CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entities named above. 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