Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 17:20:04 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #164 - 15 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. I'm a Grandmother/Non MA related (foxdragon@cuttingedge.net) 2. RE: Ideal age for kids to have black belt (Master Mark Seidel) 3. Re: I'm a Grandmother/Non MA related (Lori L Brown) 4. differences between old kwans... (Davide Sorrentino) 5. Power and Chamber (Rudy Timmerman) 6. Re: Chambering the kick (jeffrey kiral) 7. Re: Chambering the kick (Ray Terry) 8. I Agree (MIND and BODY FITNESS LLC) 9. hapkido: kicking techniques in choi young sool's art (SPIVEY JR) 10. North Austin Seminar (Troy Trudeau) 11. RE: Humor for Instructors (Stovall, Craig) 12. Stuff and all that (J.R. West) 13. Re: Chambering the kick (jeffrey kiral) 14. Re: differences between old kwans... (Ray Terry) 15. Poome and Dan ranks (Charles Richards) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 11:41:19 -0600 From: foxdragon@cuttingedge.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net, "MartialScience@topica.com" Subject: [The_Dojang] I'm a Grandmother/Non MA related Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Pink Bubblegum Cigars all around! I'm proud to announce that I am now the proud grandmother of a 7 lb. 14 oz. baby girl. My daughter went into labor and gave birth at 1:00 a.m. April 2. Momma, Daddy, and baby doing fine. The baby has got a good set of lungs on her too. I got to see the birth and I cried. Two reasons, I was happy and I was feeling for the pain my daughter was in. There are some times when a mother can't make the pain go away... Donna --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Master Mark Seidel" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Ideal age for kids to have black belt Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 13:32:07 -0500 Organization: The Midtown Academy Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I was referring to the part of the post that talked about an 18 year old becoming a Master; I once had a 25 year old Master that had very little life experience, and an inability to interject philosophy with his training, later I moved on to a Master that was a lot older and had the ability to explain the philosophies of the art, Zen and KI at high levels. Grandmaster Jhoon Rhee said that "the only difference between street fighting and Martial Arts was the philosophy, without philosophy Martial Arts could become very bad, with philosophy it becomes very good". Anyone that is studying Martial Arts just for the technical side could fare far better joining Special Forces, Navy Seals or Ranger school. In my opinion teaching Martial Arts without the philosophy is a shame and a crime. Master Mark Seidel Martial Arts /PE Program The Midtown Academy http://www.midtownacademy.org -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Milks [mailto:kicho_do@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 6:34 AM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Ideal age for kids to have black belt IMHO, If you are training these children with your adult curriculum, then award them the adult belt. If you have a separate curriculum for children, then they will most likely be happy achieving whatever equivalent is there. Master Seidel mentioned, "An 18 year old Master is like having an 18 year old professor in college maybe that has mastered some technical skills but could not possibly master the wisdom of age (life)." I enjoy your statement, but realize that most of us, when we test students, really only test them on these "technical skills" not life skills. Thanks to everyone for reading my post. Sincerely, Kevin __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Lori L Brown" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] I'm a Grandmother/Non MA related Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:04:46 -0800 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net CONGRATULATIONS Grandma!!! May there always be more love than not to go around in this world! Best Wishes! LB > Pink Bubblegum Cigars all around! I'm proud to announce that I am now > the proud grandmother of a 7 lb. 14 oz. baby girl. My daughter went into > labor and gave birth at 1:00 a.m. April 2. Momma, Daddy, and baby doing > fine. The baby has got a good set of lungs on her too. I got to see the > birth and I cried. Two reasons, I was happy and I was feeling for the > pain my daughter was in. There are some times when a mother can't make > the pain go away... > > > Donna > _______________________________________________ --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Davide Sorrentino" To: Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 21:07:35 +0200 Subject: [The_Dojang] differences between old kwans... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi!!! I'd like to know if someone knows what were the differences (tec.; kyorughi; forms; philosophy; terms; etc.) between the old kwans before the unification of Taekwondo under the KTA/ITF and then KTA/WTF. Even if i've red a lot about this, i think i've to know something else... Thanks!!! A big CIAO from Naples, Italy!!!! Davide Sorrentino ******W.T.F.-Mudokwan Taekwondo****** ******I.K.O. Kyokushinkaikan Karate****** --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 14:29:16 -0500 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Power and Chamber Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Charles writes, and others respond: > if you kick like Superfoot you start from a "side stance" and use one > chamber for three kicks. Hello Charles et al: I have seen Bill a number of times in contact fights, and he is/was good... no doubt; however, for most of us it does not do well to "hide" the other half of our arsenal behind us. I also gather that some folks responding to this thread have the knee up and stop there. I believe that anytime you stop an action that has gathered kinetic energy and start again after a brief pause causes loss of power. It would violate the "from the largest to the smallest in order without interruption" formula that seems to be the basis of generating power for many arts. The hip, in many arts, is the main joint from where the action starts, but I can't see how you can "point" it at any target as you can with the knee. In any case, the pointing up or lifting of the knee is just part of the entire kicking motion, and it should never pause unless you want your strike to be a jab rather than a power shot. My 2 Canadian pennies (and they are worth nothing as well:). Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "jeffrey kiral" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Chambering the kick Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 14:36:56 -0800 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I thank you all for your input in this thread... Every kick that we use at our dojang comes from the same knee forward chambered position...whether they are low, stomach or head level...even the crescent kicks...it just takes practice in learning how to do it that way...As for injuries from it, this is avoided by not delivering kicks beyond your natural stretch...if you want to kick higher, them get a better stretch. Also, we have exercises we do to help get the balance and delivery that you need. I do not say our way is better, but it works for us...I was just curious as to what other people had to say. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rudy Timmerman" To: Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 8:42 AM Subject: [The_Dojang] Chambering the kick > Ray writes: > > However many of HKD's kicks > > could not (easily?) be done this way, at least not that I can see...??? > Hello Ray: > I agree, and that is why I said we do a number (not all) kicks that > way. IMHO, low ground kicks by their very nature can't be chambered > with the knee up, as the kinetic energy of the knee going up would > oppose the rest of the body going down. FWIW, we point the knee at > the target with the various round kicks we have in KSB, as the knee > (being a hinge type joint) can only extend safely that way. I have > seen many practitioners ruin their hip and knee joints as they try to > get height in the roundhouse type kicks without having an anatomically > suitable motion. They can't seem to get it trough their heads that, > when the knee is pointed down, this position would dictate that the > lower leg goes down as well when extended. > Sincerely, > Rudy > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Chambering the kick To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:53:22 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I thank you all for your input in this thread... > Every kick that we use at our dojang comes from the same knee forward > chambered position...whether they are low, stomach or head level...even the > crescent kicks...it just takes practice in learning how to do it that > way. Do you have sweep-type kicks in your style? e.g. kicks/sweeps low to your opponent's shin. If you've seen the old movie Hapkido, aka Lady Kungfu(?), you see the HKD class doing (SinMoo) basic kick #1, a rear leg sweeping motion kick to the lower part of the shin. Also, fwiw, referring back to the video set from Jong Bae Rim and Joe Sheya entitled "Traditional Hapkido" all the kicks shown are of the sweep nature, low target, no/minimal chamber. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 12:27:44 -0800 (PST) From: MIND and BODY FITNESS LLC To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] I Agree Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sharon This is a little venting so take it as that. I completely agree with you on the different types of students and got a really big laugh out of it. I do believe I have personnally met everyonre of these types. I am not sure if you have met this other type but I seem to encounter alot of these. You would call him: Mr. Special Forces, He is 25-50 years old , over weight and has been all over the world and killed everything from mice to men. He cannot train his children to fight because he only knows how to kill, so he brings them to you for training and sits in the corner and comments on how they did it in the service. You ever encounter any of these? I live in a small area in Oklahoma and it seems that every navey seal or special forces has settled in the area Mike Cejka --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 12:27:51 -0800 (PST) From: SPIVEY JR To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] hapkido: kicking techniques in choi young sool's art Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net bruce, hello, this is my first post here... you have raised a topic that i have great interest in. regarding your comment that master im hyun soo eschews some of the kicking techniques from master choi's original art, my understanding is different. i have understood master im to imply that the kicking techniques he teaches today are the very ones that he learned from master choi. master im's curriculum uses a limited number of kicks, mostly low. several use the heel to strike to the thigh, knee, lower leg or foot. the front snap kick is also frequently seen in master im's techniques. he does not use any high kicks, and as far as i can tell believes that high kicks are ill-advised in a self-defense situation. master im maintains that he teaches hapkido exactly as master choi taught it to him - just as master choi said the same thing with respect to what he had learned from sokaku takeda. in other words, what master im is teaching should be very close to traditional daito ryu aikijujutsu. would you be able to provide more detail about what you are referring to with respect to the kicking techniques in master choi's original art? thanks, and regards, howard --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 12:34:29 -0800 (PST) From: Troy Trudeau To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] North Austin Seminar Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Glad to be back home after a long drive from Tennessee, Master Thomas did a wonderful job with the seminar, we all had a great time, . GM Timmerman was awesum, I loved the choking sensation I had, I would like to thank Gm Timmerman,GM McMurray and GM Hodder for the great sessions, I would also like to thank all of the other Masters and Instructors for doing such a great job, as GM Timmerman said, We all can CoExist, with no bashing, just good old plain sweating and fun, I am looking forward to the next sessions, Oh, BTW Master Thomas, the videos were great.... I hope to see everyone at the next NKMAA or USKMAF seminars... Sincerely, Troy Trudeau --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 15:00:36 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Humor for Instructors Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> Ah...a request. Let's take a look. <<>> My solution: You are not a clinical psychologist so there's no sense in trying to "fix him". Therefore, you should resort to the only other logical choice...have as much fun with him as you possibly can. After showing him a particularly effective series of movements which will no doubt excite him beyond belief, make some completely off-the-wall comment like the following..."Yes, I can kill a man in three seconds with that particular technique, but I'd trade it all just to be able to sing and dance. That's what I wanted to do with my life...but...FATHER didn't approve.". At this point, look dejectedly at your feet in total silence for several seconds while letting out a long sigh. Suddenly, look at him and say, "But HEY!!!...did I ever show you how to rupture a man's spleen?". <<>> My solution: Smile grasshopper...for the golden goose has taken roost in your hen house. Create an "Inner Circle Club" for these people. For only $x,xxx, they will have access to the most super secret private training that one can find. All the secrets of the ancient warrior sages will be made available to them. Not only will they become a killing machine, but they will also learn the secrets to inner peace, develop the sexual vitality of an 18-year-old boy jacked up on Viagra and Enzyte, and learn to control people's thoughts and actions by using only one's MIND POWER. But wait, there's more! By signing up TODAY, they receive a special report...'How to Develop Chi Power, and Use it to Pick-up Hot Chicks'. A $99 value...but they get it FREE just for signing up for the INNER CIRCLE!!! Get them to ACT NOW...spots are LIMITED...supplies are RUNNING OUT...they owe it to themselves to MAKE THAT CHANGE!!! <<>> My solution: Wander back over to him, and begin to apologize profusely. Convince him that you must have showed him the drill wrong because he was "totally hosing it up". Take all the blame. Make some flip comment like, "Yeah, between the anti-depressants, the steel plate in my head, and the stress from those two patrimony suits...it's a wonder I can teach ANYTHING around here". If he continues to screw up a second time, wander back over and assure him that he was doing a LITTLE better. However, insist on showing him again since he "still looked like a monkey trying to **** a football", and you must have left out some important details the last time. Take all the blame. Explain it again exactly the same as the prior two times. If he continues to screw up a third time, wander back over and look at him quizzically. Ask him, "English IS your first language, right?". Impersonate Chris Tucker's character from 'Rush Hour'..."Do you understand the words that are comin' out of my mouth!?!?". At this point, whistle for the assistant instructor to come mess with him. Go to your office, close the door, and take a well-deserved break. CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entities named above. If this email was received in error or if read by a party which is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, disclosure, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error or are unsure whether it contains confidential or privileged information, please immediately notify us by email or telephone. You are instructed to destroy any and all copies, electronic, paper or otherwise, which you may have of this communication if you are not the intended recipient. Receipt of this communication by any party shall not be deemed a waiver of any legal privilege of any type whatsoever as such privilege may relate to the sender. --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "J.R. West" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 15:05:17 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Stuff and all that Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sharon: Thanx for the look into the running of a dojang.....I once heard someone say that any crazy person that did NOT come into a martial arts school was either dead or in jail. I would, however, like to add one other goober to your group. I've got a plan-man: This guy has walked through the technique your teaching about twice when he figures out a way to counter it and when you look over towards him, he and his poor partner are off headed for left field with their counter-training. The way I have handled this is to say, "OK, let's test your theory" and then do a totally different technique and just beat him into the floor....Even the slowest brain-dead fool will figure out that any technique can be countered if you know what's coming. Someone once said that "everyone has a plan......... until they get hit"...Amen! My answer to all the other ones was to let Renee have a minute or two with them....generally that was enough to either break them of their nonsensical behavior or run them off after a few quick, painful trips to the mat. Either one was OK with me.....The first time Dexter Mangum walked into my school, she used him in white belt class to show what the normal response was to feeling a Hapkido technique for the first time (those of you that know him, know that Dex is an absolute "MONSTER in a dobok"). He came back, but three of his friends did NOT...he is approaching 5th dan as we speak. As far as poom belts are concerned...The way I do it, is all poom belts, regardless of level are outranked by the lowest ranking adult blackbelt....Third pooms (4 years as a poom) may petition me in writing to be advanced at 16 to adult 2nd dan.....in 37 years of teaching, 3 have made it. All poom ranks expire at their 16th birthday. I have one student that earned her poom belt at about 12 or 13....took a break till she was 18, started over and worked all the way back to adult blackbelt. She is featured on a clip on our website under the title of "That guy who cried"........ PS: I will be in MD on the 17th of April...if anyone would like to come and visit, let me know and I'll put you in touch with my host..... J. R. West www.hapkido.com --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "jeffrey kiral" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Chambering the kick Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 16:20:07 -0800 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net If you are referring to a forward delivered "scoop" kick to the shin area ( striking with the inner edge of the foot ) then yes, we do have that. It is still delivered with the knee forward and ends with a forward thrust with the inner edge of the foot. The only difference I can see is that is isn't really possible to pivot your planted leg, so the power, if any, wouldn't come from the hip, but rather from the snap/thrust motion and the slight twisting of the knee. Also, your knee will rotate out away from your center as you deliver the strike, but it all starts from the same position as any other kick I have seen. As for sweeping your opponents leg from say, a bear hug or some other tech. where you are on the outside of your adversary, I was taught to imagine three opponents---you are kicking the one in front of you, sweeping the one next to you, and kicking the guy behind you. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Terry" To: Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 11:53 AM Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Chambering the kick > > I thank you all for your input in this thread... > > Every kick that we use at our dojang comes from the same knee forward > > chambered position...whether they are low, stomach or head level...even the > > crescent kicks...it just takes practice in learning how to do it that > > way. > > Do you have sweep-type kicks in your style? e.g. kicks/sweeps low to your > opponent's shin. If you've seen the old movie Hapkido, aka Lady Kungfu(?), > you see the HKD class doing (SinMoo) basic kick #1, a rear leg sweeping > motion kick to the lower part of the shin. > > Also, fwiw, referring back to the video set from Jong Bae Rim and Joe Sheya > entitled "Traditional Hapkido" all the kicks shown are of the sweep nature, > low target, no/minimal chamber. > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 14 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] differences between old kwans... To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 13:40:56 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I'd like to know if someone knows what were the differences (tec.; kyorughi; > forms; philosophy; terms; etc.) between the old kwans before the unification > of Taekwondo under the KTA/ITF and then KTA/WTF. What have you read? Some diffs... The Moo Duk Kwan first started teaching Hwa Soo Do and fairly quickly switched to Tang Soo Do. I believe the kwans either called their art Tang Soo Do or Kong Soo Do (China Hand Way or Empty Hand Way). Later names used were Tae Soo Do, Soo Bahk Do, and of course Taekwondo. Most kwans seemed to focus one signature technique/kick and was their primary sparring technique. Thus you could frequently tell what kwan someone was from based on their favorite/best technique. Others? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 15 Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 13:49:38 -0800 (PST) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Poome and Dan ranks Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jason asks "I would be very interested to understand how a Poom converts to a Dan at 18 (or whatever the appropriate age is). If a student is a 3rd Poom, do they become a 3rd Dan at 18? How are Pooms and Dans treated with respect to one another? Ie... 3rd Dan vs. 3rd Poom." Jason Sabom Nim, Two ways a 2nd poom who will be 16+ can take the adult 3rd Dan exam. Performing all the adult material up to 3rd Dan. Or a 19+ 3rd Poome could take the adult 4th Dan exam A 15+ poome could take the equivalent level adult Dan exam after the 16th birthday. They are paid the same respect as Dans. If a 3rd Poome tested before or tested together, but started before a 3rd Dan, the 3rd Poome would be senior. Poome do not sit on exams, and nobody 14- can judge at an AAU event and nobody 17- can judge at their national events. Otherwise they are "treated" like other Dans. Yours in jung do, Charles Richards www.mojakwan.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest