Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 08:25:04 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #168 - 13 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: I retired!!!! (Jason Thomas (Y!)) 2. A complete art (A. Boyd) 3. RE: Student Types... (J Thomas Howard) 4. RE: I retired!!!! (Kip McCormick) 5. RE: Learning to fight (James Morgan) 6. Plug (Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy) 7. hkd dojang (J R Hilland) 8. RE: Learning to fight (Jye nigma) 9. Re: Master Marks comments (Jye nigma) 10. Re: hkd dojang (jeffrey kiral) 11. Re: military training focuses on using weapons (Bernard Redfield) 12. Re: Learning to fight (Bernard Redfield) 13. RE: RE: Learning to fight (Kip McCormick) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Jason Thomas \(Y!\)" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] I retired!!!! Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 14:49:04 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Welcome to the club! ;) -----Original Message----- From: Manuel Maldonado [mailto:sudomakki2003@hotmail.com] Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 10:45 AM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] I retired!!!! Im pleased? to announce that I finally retired from the US ARMY... Well I retired on March 12 2004 with a service connected disability, but never the less retired. No more hair cuts shaves etc... Just thought I'd share with my freinds on DD. Tae Kwon Maldonado Song Seng ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Limited-time offer: Fast, reliable MSN 9 Dial-up Internet access FREE for 2 months! _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 17:50:50 -0500 (EST) From: "A. Boyd" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] A complete art Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net When I read Alain's article I was nodding my head - except I was thinking about swordwork as I did so. Like the liberal use of the name Hapkido when some group learns a few jointlocks, people also love to state that they "study the sword" in whatever unarmed MA they take. It's never a good thing to hear that someone views your chosen art as an adjunct to theirs or as a fun distraction on one Thursday night a month... ;}- ===== Anthony Boyd: Swordsman and English Teacher www.stormpages.com/haidonggumdo ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca --__--__-- Message: 3 To: "the_dojang" Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 17:03:02 -0600 (CST) From: thomcat@binary.net (J Thomas Howard) Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Student Types... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sharon wrote: > Thomas writes: > < Well, unknown is a relative term. :) > > Thanks for letting us know the origins of the piece. Interesting -- I > got it from another list by permission, posted by a person in the U.K. No problem. Animal List? I saw it there about a week ago, but didn't comment. (I haven't sent in my intro yet, even though I've been reading for a couple of months, so I didn't bother to comment.) I don't mind that it goes around without my name on it, unless someone else tries to say that they wrote it. Its funny stuff, and I think it is neat that other people like it. As long as no one says "Hey, I wrote this whole thing, it is so funny!" I don't care---after all, no ONE person wrote the whole thing. Thomas ------------------------------------ thomcat@binary.net hapkido.4t.com "If you aren't modeling what you are teaching then you are teaching something else." --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Kip McCormick" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] I retired!!!! Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 15:19:57 -0800 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master Maldonado: Congrats on your retirement from the Army! As a soldier, I just wanted to say thanks for your years of dedicated service. It'll be tough to break the habit of every two years getting the itch to move, eating food that will plug you up (meals ready to excreet?!) and doing all the stuff that comes with relocation, right? Thanks again for your service and may God bless you in the future. Remember, you'll always be a soldier! Kip Kip McCormick, LTC US Army "Warrior Hapkido" USKMAF Seoul, Korea >From: "Jason Thomas (Y!)" >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: >Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] I retired!!!! >Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 14:49:04 -0600 > >Welcome to the club! ;) > >-----Original Message----- >From: Manuel Maldonado [mailto:sudomakki2003@hotmail.com] >Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 10:45 AM >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [The_Dojang] I retired!!!! > >Im pleased? to announce that I finally retired from the US ARMY... Well I >retired on March 12 2004 with a service connected disability, but never >the less retired. No more hair cuts shaves etc... Just thought I'd share >with my freinds on DD. Tae Kwon Maldonado Song Seng > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Limited-time offer: Fast, reliable MSN 9 Dial-up Internet access FREE for >2 months! >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang _________________________________________________________________ MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page – FREE download! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "James Morgan" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 18:27:18 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Learning to fight Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I too have to agree with Mr. Cejka's comments on the military's attitude towards Martial Arts training. From Jan '94 - Nov '96 I was assigned to 2nd Battalion, 3rd Brigade, 101st Airborne (Air Assault) Division at Ft. Campbell. During my time assigned to Headquarters Company I offered to conduct PT one morning, since I was an E-5 at the time, for the entire company doing martial arts training. At first, my request received a sideways look from my CO because he did not know of my background in MA (I was TKD 3rd Dan) and after explaining he agreed that it would be "different" so, why not? The session consisted of basic punching, kicking, and a few techniques of defending against grabs and punches. Let's just say, I did it once... Even though the soldiers ENJOYED it and many of them told me they wished we did more of that because GOD knows a SAW or M16 jams "occassionally" :) BUT, it was deemed by higher ups that running, pushups, and situps were more important because of the great significance of PT Tests. Even though it was loved by the soldiers and there is a BIG need for more unarmed MA instruction in our military, learning to defend yourself without your M16 will never be as important as passing your next PT test so that your Company Commander's Company PT Average is higher than the other's averages! If you are a military CO reading this, I'm sorry, but with my experience it was true. (Kip, don't hate me!! :) Yeah, there is "Sergeant's Time" but that is for Preventive Maintenancing the humvees, or cleaning your M16. It's sad, it really is. James Morgan GTKDA --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 18:32:27 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Plug Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I am hosting Master Richard Hodder at my dojang on Saturday, April 17 for anyone who will be in the Southeastern part of West By-God Virginia during that time. We will be conducting a Gup test at 12:00 noon and then Master Hodder will be conducting a seminar from 4:00 - 8:00 for all of those that are interested. This will be Master Hodder's 2nd visit to WV and we are tickled to death to have him back to wear us out again!! If anyone would like further information just email or call me. Thanks. James Morgan Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy Lewisburg, WV www.gtkda.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 18:28:21 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] hkd dojang Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Not sure I follow you. Your justifying your observations about hapkido on visiting hapkido websites, and not hapkido dojang? I don't think any of the dojang I am associated with post belt requirements on their websites. If you are a Korean martial arts practitioner, I would suggest going to the big hapkido event in Jackson. Should be another one rolling around at the end of summer. I would also invite you to visit a traditional hapkido dojang. Spend some time on the mats. If your ever in Fargo, look me up, not to mention - Jackson, Canada and whole bunch of good hapkido dojang around the planet that I would recommend. Many are on this list. Even when you start practicing hapkido, it will be years before you know hapkido, truly, for the first few years will know just a little of the art. I studied with direct students of Master Choi and Ji, and their students, and the next generation. Many of these fine traditional hapkido dojang are around, you just have to hunt for them. I can't say I know about any of the dojang you are referring to, I just don't spend time with those folks. No reason. Your going to find the 'real deal' and wanna-be's in just every martial art out there. With hapkido, you just have to look a little further than virtual dojang. Jere R. Hilland www.HapkidoSelfDefense.com Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] HKD/TKD Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 14:09:05 -0800 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I agree...Hapkido is a complete art...But this statement raises a question from me..I have visited many HKD school websites, and I have taken a look at the belt requirements at each one. The question I have is this: Since Hapkido IS a complete art, then why are such "watered down" versions of it being taught? If many of the Masters have truly trained in Korea, or from original students of GM Choi or GM Ji, or even from these GM's top students, how is it that the Hapkido being taught is NOT the complete art we are talking about? IMHO a black belt should have a much greater grasp of the art than what I can see...I am not knocking anyone or their dojang, just curious as to why or how this is happening. --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 18:44:49 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Learning to fight To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Funny you should mention that. I remember studying with a guy who was a former Choi Kwang Do(?) student, who complined that Choi led his classes like a "boot camp". Jye tin Von Cannon wrote: If I could run a class the way some of the training was I received in the Military, I would be out of a job (and dojang). --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway - Enter today --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 18:55:46 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Master Marks comments To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have heard many stories bout people who do something extremely well being sked to teach the armed forces at some point. For instance there was a guy who loved free climbing (climbing mountains without safety gear); he did it so well, tht he was sked to teach some branch of the military. So what I think it will all fall back on is a person no matter if they are a civilian or not, if they do something well to extremely well, there is a chance that they could tke out a military person. Prime example, the situation in Iraqi. Those guys using primitive weaponry...are still killing our soldiers. We have all this technology yet can't completely squash primitive forces. Jye FirstPe315@aol.com wrote: Master Seidel: Although I would agree that a broad range of "non-physical" aspects define what being a warrior is all about, I think the statement below is not accurate. Despite the fact that the Special Forces gentlemen (the ones I have met weren't really) learn a fair amount of hand-to-hand, what makes them effective is their mindset, not their technical ability. If you had a 20-year Martial-Arts veteran trained at something "self-defense" oriented and had a portion of the Special Forces mentality, the Seal or Green Beret guy would be out of their league. Jeff In a message dated 4/2/2004 8:20:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > Anyone that is studying Martial Arts just for the technical side could fare > far better joining Special Forces, Navy Seals or Ranger school. In my > opinion teaching Martial Arts without the philosophy is a > shame and a crime. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway - Enter today --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "jeffrey kiral" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] hkd dojang Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 22:04:03 -0800 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net FYI---I already belong to a Hapkido dojang...I have seen your website and I am not talking about you per say, I am impressed by what you have to offer...to see what I mean, just go to google and type in Hapkido : search---check out what is shown on the various sites as rank requirements...don't take my question about watering down the art as an attack on anyone...I am just very curious as to what is going on in the Hapkido world outside my dojang...I have visited other schools in my area ( Cleveland ) but they are mostly "pretenders". I am very proud to be a part of this art, and I feel kinship with all Hapkidoists everywhere...it just seems that there are more pretenders than contenders out there. Before I make a commitment to attend any seminar, I just want to be sure that I won't be dissapointed with the material that is being offered. Also, I realize that every Masters curriculum will not be presented the same way, but some seem to "get it" and some do not... ----- Original Message ----- From: "J R Hilland" To: Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 4:28 PM Subject: [The_Dojang] hkd dojang > Not sure I follow you. Your justifying your observations about hapkido on > visiting hapkido websites, and not hapkido dojang? I don't think any of the > dojang I am associated with post belt requirements on their websites. If you > are a Korean martial arts practitioner, I would suggest going to the big > hapkido event in Jackson. Should be another one rolling around at the end of > summer. I would also invite you to visit a traditional hapkido dojang. Spend > some time on the mats. If your ever in Fargo, look me up, not to mention - > Jackson, Canada and whole bunch of good hapkido dojang around the planet > that I would recommend. Many are on this list. Even when you start > practicing hapkido, it will be years before you know hapkido, truly, for the > first few years will know just a little of the art. I studied with direct > students of Master Choi and Ji, and their students, and the next generation. > Many of these fine traditional hapkido dojang are around, you just have to > hunt for them. I can't say I know about any of the dojang you are referring > to, I just don't spend time with those folks. No reason. Your going to find > the 'real deal' and wanna-be's in just every martial art out there. With > hapkido, you just have to look a little further than virtual dojang. Jere R. > Hilland www.HapkidoSelfDefense.com > > Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] HKD/TKD > Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 14:09:05 -0800 > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > I agree...Hapkido is a complete art...But this statement raises a question > from me..I have visited many HKD school websites, and I have taken a look at > the belt requirements at each one. The question I have is this: Since > Hapkido IS a complete art, then why are such "watered down" versions of it > being taught? If many of the Masters have truly trained in Korea, or from > original students of GM Choi or GM Ji, or even from these GM's top students, > how is it that the Hapkido being taught is NOT the complete art we are > talking about? IMHO a black belt should have a much greater grasp of the art > than what I can see...I am not knocking anyone or their dojang, just curious > as to why or how this is happening. > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 22:17:25 -0500 From: Bernard Redfield To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: military training focuses on using weapons Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > And yes, military training focuses on using weapons, and very little hand to > hand. Many of us that wanted extra hand-to-hand or martial art skills went to > civillian schools off post. Yes, I found this to be true, My brother was a Staff sergeant in the 82nd and while I was visiting, he had me give a 1 hour seminar(that lasted 3hrs) for his unit, they were all for it, one guy was a kick boxer they respected with a mouth, who thought he could dis me and get laughs, so of course he was my uki, I had him throw his best stuff and I stepped inside and took him down hard and locked him, then had to do it again of course he attacked the same and I changed it up till he was on tippey toes with his fingers brushing ribs, if you know what I mean, and then once more I had to throw him. Once I had the respect of these guys we had a great workout, I had to keep toning them down, man they were ready to dislocate and keep going, haha they were into it. we ended up with a crowd of watchers, officers and such, afterwards, this guy introduced himself as the combat master and was upset that i was teaching how to drop a guy doing stuff I had them show me from the FM21-150 combatives manual and made up counters for on the spot. but he was cool after we talked a while, he was more upset that I found it so easy to negate his manual, than anything else. but as they say give me twenty feet and my M-16... bernard --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 22:41:07 -0500 From: Bernard Redfield To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Learning to fight Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> These are the key words here, these as you call them under trained kids are volunteers, who joined the American Armed Forces, did you? Will you? They are there to protect you with weapons for the most part not hands, remember that. So don't be disgusted with people who have sworn to lay down their lives for you to be free to practice your martial arts, rarely will they need hand to hand, but to train in automated weapons systems is the norm for the "Kids" Please show some respect for your fellow Americans who have decided to give their lives for you. OK off my soapbox Bernard (former USAF) yea yea you Marines, but we flew you there --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "Kip McCormick" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] RE: Learning to fight Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 21:42:05 -0800 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net James- How could I hate a fellow warrior brother -- we've hooked and jabbedtogether with the North Koreans at Panmunjom?!!! Face to face with those communist *&!@#$$^! We've shared mud and blood together! I've been lurking watching all of the sparring going on about the lack of hand to hand training in the military. My two cents (okay, $2): First, let no one doubt this -- America's military is the strongest and best fighting force on the planet, period. Whether you're at the Joint Security Area in Panmunjom, up in "Warrior Country", 2nd ID, South Korea; whether you're at the National Training Center at Ft Irwin, CA, or serving in Iraq, the Balkans (yes, we still have troops there), Afghanistan, or the multiple places around the the United States and the world wearing the uniform, our soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines -- ALL VOLUNTEERS -- are serving something bigger than themselves and they are damned good, period. A few years ago the Ranger Regiment realized our Army hand to hand skills were lacking and they put together a hand to hand program that was akin to jujitsu. It may not be the best style for combat, but it's a lot better than what we had. They noticed a deficiency and, like good rangers, led the way in getting it to be an Army wide program. You can't turn an aircraft carrier on a dime and you can't get combatives as part of the culture overnight. It simply takes time. I will tell you that I'm seeing a huge upsurge in hand to hand training in the past couple of years. Like most of the stuff I put on the DD, this is just a casual observation -- I haven't reviewed the multitude of training schedules, etc -- no science involved, just observations. The leaders I'm around want nothing more than to prepare their soldiers for combat and are working their butts off to ensure that soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines are combat ready. I have commanders contacting me to come teach their soldiers --even after duty hours -- so they can accomplish their mission. And the soldiers eat it up. The Marines have an outstanding program from what I've seen. The marines in my school are top notch and hapkido really compliments their program. All marines are required to progress in the Marine Corps Martial Arts Program (MCMAP) system, and I'm really impressed with what I've seen (even the commander of Marine Forces, Korea - a US 2-star marine general, does hand to hand training!) They even require progress to be documented - good or bad -- in their officer and enlisted evaluation reports. Don't do combatives, end your career. SEMPER FI! I've always felt that ALL soldiers need hand to hand training and it's not just the infantrymen (look at Operation Iraqi Freedom, during which a supply unit was ambushed and several soldiers were killed or captured). It's not just the ranger, SF soldier, SEAL, or grunt closing with the enemy. The battlefield knows no boundaries. All soldiers need hand to hand training. I run a program for military only in Seoul. My students range from infantrymen to lawyers, computer studs to air force navigators. I have all branches of the service in my school and ranks vary from a private to lieutenant colonel. They want to learn because they, too, realize that the battlefield knows no boundaries. My men throw down hard and we keep it as realistic as possible because what they could face is the ultimate sacrifice if they're not fully trained. Hats off to you instructors on this list who have gone out and trained folks in our military. I know there are many of you who have spent time doing that, including my instructor, JR West. Our Army program is evolving and with the current Chief of Staff of the Army's focus on warrior training, I think our combatives will improve greatly. We're a lot farther than we were five years ago and we'll continue to improve. In the meantime, if you're near a military post/base, give the base commander or sergeant major/chief master sergeant a call and tell him or her you'd love to come out and teach some hand to hand to any of the units on base. If you know anyone who's in the military who lives nearby, approach them about teaching some good, hand to hand stuff. Soldiers eat it up. You'll always have the one know-it-all who needs a good humbling experience, but I will tell you that you won't find a more eager group to learn, especially when you put it in perspective with respect to the Global War on Terrorism. If you can't find someone at the base/post, shoot me an email and I'll find someone there you can get in touch with. For all of you who have been going to military posts/bases and teaching military personnel, I can't thank you enough. You don't have to be wearing a uniform to serve our great country. Off my soapbox. (I think I hear the "Star Spangled Banner" playing in the background.) Cheers. Kip Kip McCormick, LTC, U.S. Army Warrior Hapkido Seoul, Korea >From: "James Morgan" >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: "Dojang Digest" >Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Learning to fight >Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 18:27:18 -0500 > >I too have to agree with Mr. Cejka's comments on the military's attitude >towards Martial Arts training. From Jan '94 - Nov '96 I was assigned to >2nd >Battalion, 3rd Brigade, 101st Airborne (Air Assault) Division at Ft. >Campbell. During my time assigned to Headquarters Company I offered to >conduct PT one morning, since I was an E-5 at the time, for the entire >company doing martial arts training. At first, my request received a >sideways look from my CO because he did not know of my background in MA (I >was TKD 3rd Dan) and after explaining he agreed that it would be >"different" >so, why not? >The session consisted of basic punching, kicking, and a few techniques of >defending against grabs and punches. Let's just say, I did it once... >Even >though the soldiers ENJOYED it and many of them told me they wished we did >more of that because GOD knows a SAW or M16 jams "occassionally" :) BUT, >it >was deemed by higher ups that running, pushups, and situps were more >important because of the great significance of PT Tests. >Even though it was loved by the soldiers and there is a BIG need for more >unarmed MA instruction in our military, learning to defend yourself without >your M16 will never be as important as passing your next PT test so that >your Company Commander's Company PT Average is higher than the other's >averages! If you are a military CO reading this, I'm sorry, but with my >experience it was true. (Kip, don't hate me!! :) Yeah, there is >"Sergeant's Time" but that is for Preventive Maintenancing the humvees, or >cleaning your M16. > >It's sad, it really is. > >James Morgan >GTKDA >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang _________________________________________________________________ Get rid of annoying pop-up ads with the new MSN Toolbar – FREE! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200414ave/direct/01/ --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest