Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 03:01:50 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #171 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Humour for Instructors (Donnelly, Eamonn) 2. Renee (J.R. West) 3. Army H2H combat (Patrick Baeder) 4. Matt Furey Workout (Bob Hartley) 5. SEAL/Ranger/SF (Curt Nieckarz) 6. RE: Matt Furey Workout (Stovall, Craig) 7. the future of hapkido (J R Hilland) 8. Re: Army H2H combat (Stickfighter87@aol.com) 9. Hapkido and kicking (Master Allen) 10. Portland (Rudy Timmerman) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Donnelly, Eamonn" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 11:16:52 +0100 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Humour for Instructors Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Snip "Common Students that Martial Arts Instructors See Question Lad (aka. What-If?): This guy will bring up every possible permutation for every drill that is being worked. Solution: Make him uki." end snip Like most people I found this thread very amusing, many thanks to the authors, (whoever they are) its a bit of fun, however on a slightly more serious note; Lets be honest, as a student I can see a little bit of me in at least one of the various stereotypes described, its human nature, no matter how hard we may strive for moral excellence, imperfections still find an opening. Thanks for the heads up, there is always room for improvement in our attitude and approach to training in the arts. My utmost respect to all you instructors who continually have to deal with these "challenges" on a daily basis, I for one do not have the innate ability or indeed patience to be an instructor. However, a question to MA instructors, are these challenges part and parcel of the business of being an instructor. Also as these stereotypes exist in all of us to some extent, I am sure that there must be numerous examples when as instructors you have risen to the challenge and have success stories to relate?. Finally, again with my sincere respect, a challenge to instructors, can we end this thread with some POSITIVE examples/stereotypes that students can aspire to or do they not exist (I suspect they are a lot less humorous). Eamonn ("Extremely lucky to have a very patient instructor") Confidentiality Note: The information in this electronic mail ("e-mail") message may be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by privilege, work product immunity or other applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient the retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you receive this electronic mail ("e-mail") in error please notify us immediately by telephone on +44 (0) 24 7686 2000 or by e-mail at postmaster@cel-international.com. Thank you. Registered in England No. 3877626 Registered Office 256 Foleshill Road Coventry CV6 5AB --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "J.R. West" To: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 06:15:04 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Renee Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Kip Said: " I had Master Renee West do a ki strike on me about 4 years ago, which basically caused my "innards" to experience rent control -- you know, where the kidneys end up on another side of the tracks and your colon gets turned bass ackwards... Makes me wish I hit like a girl!!!! Kip McCormick "Warrior Hapkido" USKMAF, Korea Kip: Thanx for the trip down memory lane. When Renee first came up in the mid-late 70's, she was the only female in my school, and we had some doubts about whether or not she would survive the training. There were very few women involved in Hapkido back then, and the ratio of men to women was a lot higher than it is now all the way across the board. Once Renee earned her chodan, I noticed that we started having more women in class because they now had a "role model" and could say to themselves, "if she can do it, I can do it". By the time that the mid 90's hit us, we had many VERY talented ladies training with us that thought that Renee's way of training was the way that was expected, so folks like Dr. Suzanne Sanders, Dr. Audrey Tsao, Christal Jenkins, Kat Watkins et al became the norm, and over a period of time, every instructor that we visited on a regular basis, developed a core group of tough women. Every time I do a seminar and see a couple of women just tearing someone up with that unmistakeable fire in their controlled technique, I know that Renee is still there......Thanx....J. R. West www.hapkido.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Patrick Baeder Organization: Auburn Academy of Martial Arts, LLC To: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 7:29:05 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Army H2H combat Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net There has been much discussion lately regarding the proficiency of our troops hand-to-hand combat skills. Here is a little history regarding the Army Ranger's decision to select Brazilian JJ as their style of H2H. When I was a Ranger qualified infantry officer, I served under LTC Kurt Fuller. LTC Fuller had just come to our battalion after filling the position as executive officer of the 75th Ranger Regiment in Ft. Benning, GA. This is what he had to say about how the decision was made to go with BJJ as their form of H2H combat. Once upon a time, LTC Fuller was sitting around one evening with several of the Ranger Regiment brass, drinking beer and watching the Ultimate Fighting Challenge. All the officers were amazed at Royce Gracie's ability to tap out challengers quickly, without harming them. The officers decided that they need a system of combat would accomplish this. They wanted their soldiers to be able to: (A) Roll around on the match going full force-on-force (B) Someone to win by submission (C) Not have any injuries The benefits of the Army's decision: 1. Soldier's learn and effective fighting style for the ground 2. Soldier's can engage in a style of H2H, full force with fewer injuries 3. Soldier's look forward to unusual and challenging PT (physical training) 4. Soldier's unit cohesion is improved 5. Soldier's develop confidence The drawbacks: 1. BJJ is probably not the best choice in a combat situation where there is more than one opponent 2. BJJ is probably not the best choice in a situation where knifes or other weapons are introduced 3. Soldier�s may be receiving a false sense of H2H combat effectiveness There are obvious deficiencies in the BJJ H2H combat system that the Army has chosen and many Rangers and Army troops are aware of that. But LTC Fuller told me, �This is not to make the soldier in to a badass�it is to make him think he is a badass.� The BJJ system of H2H is great for unit�s confidence and cohesion. That is the real reason for the decision. Respectfully, --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Bob Hartley To: CC: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 7:35:21 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Matt Furey Workout Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "I'm interested in trying out the Matt Furey workout. Is it as simple as Tibetan pushups, Tibetan squats and then neck bridges? Do I need to buy the book to build a daily routine that works for me or is it something you can easily pick up from someone who's already doing it? Thanks. Jesse" Jesse, I have Matt Furey's book "Combat Conditioning", which I purchased about 2 months ago, along with his "Combat Abs." In the first book, he makes the case that the three exercises (that he refers to as Hindu squats, Hindu pushups, and bridging" are the basis for a fitness program. (Matt calls them the "royal court.") The book does have additional exercises, as well as variations on those three. If you know somebody who has the book, you can learn from them, as the exercises are not complicated. And, you might want to borrow the book for a few days to check out the other exercises. Matt Furey also has some videos out, I believe. Let me know if this helps. Bob of the Great White North(east) --__--__-- Message: 5 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Curt Nieckarz Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 10:40:58 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] SEAL/Ranger/SF Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Just wanted to respond to a couple of things that were written recently: Master Richards wrote: “Somehow he managed to give us a fair does of PT that would leave the macho Seals and Ranger type gasping for air in a puddle of sweat :-) “ Now, I’m not sure if you were referring to college-age Seal/Ranger wannabees, ex-Seal/Rangers, or current Seal/Rangers. But if it was anything other than the wannabees, I find it hard to believe that any of the other students were left standing if these guys were “gasping for air in a puddle of sweat.” For the uninformed, try reading “Warrior Elite” which follows a BUD/S (Basic Underwater Demolitions/SEAL) class thru their training. and Mike Cejka wrote: “During the training day prior there were at least 50 to 75 men standing off to the side of the field just watching the combative course being taught. I inquired about why they were not included in the course. The answer I received was the training we were providing (at no cost) was optional and not required. After learning this I wandered over to the bunch of non participants and began to ask individuals why they were not participating. The answers, no I mean excuses I received were horrifying to hear as a civilian. They ranged from "I only joined for the college money", to a weeny "I am out on medical condition" or " It is not required so I am just taking paid break to watch and smoke." “ It’s been some time since I served in the Army (got out in ‘78) but it’s my understanding that the Ranger battalions are still all manned with volunteers - all Airborne qualified and most Ranger qualified. The exception may be, for example - company clerks, cooks, etc, who do not really need to be Ranger qualified. But the line companies are filled with young, eager, gung-ho Ranger qualified studs. The Ranger school is 3 months of hell where you get about 5 hours of sleep in a 5-day training cycle - some of the most grueling training the military has to offer. And yes, there is some H2H instruction (at least more than what most soldiers get). Personally, I don’t know of anyone who would go thru all of that “for the college money”. Somebody please correct me if I’m wrong. Just didn’t want anyone to get the wrong impression of our elite forces. These guys are dedicated professionals. Sorry for the long post... Respectfully ----Curt Nieckarz --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 09:44:12 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Matt Furey Workout Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> How can I be nice about this...? I bought his book several years ago, and incorporated some of his methods into my routines. The book cost $35 and looked like he had it done at Kinko's for $10. I've heard similar comments about his other products. You better be impressed by the substance, because you sure ain't paying for style. Anyhoo... Bottom line, I don't do his exercises very much these days. There's nothing magical about these exercises, and the Hindu Squats can be downright injurious. I think squatting like that VERY SLOWLY and for VERY FEW reps can actually be healthy as a knee strengthener, but I DO NOT think people should be squatting like that for speed and high reps. You wouldn't use that form for a barbell squat, so it doesn't make sense to do that with your body weight, either. That Hindu squat puts your knees and leg muscles in a position of fair mechanical disadvantage. When I was doing high rep Hindus my knees hurt. Now that I squat exclusively with heels on the floor, my knees don't hurt. Other peoples' mileage may vary. In addition, the Hindu squat tends to be more of a quad isolator. It doesn't really activate the prime movers (glutes and hams) from a lower body extension standpoint like heels on the ground does. When I squat with heels on the ground, I get much more stimulation (Read: use) of the hams and glutes. I can also control the distribution of the load by varying the width of the stance (Hard to do with the Hindus, easy with heels on the ground). If you want a strong neck, get a neck harness. If you want a neck that looks big, do overhead pressing, rows, and shrugs. This will build up the traps, and give you that bulldog look. If you want a neck that looks big and is also strong, do both. Bridges are cool, but they aren't really a neck exercise like most people think they are. I do a little bridging with hands supporting, and some reverse push-ups. Again...nothing magical about this movement, but Furey's made a million convincing people otherwise. The Hindu pushup...complete waste of time and energy, IMHO. My time is better spent doing regular pushups (varying the hand width), pull-ups/chinups, and dips. I actually do them every once and awhile, but it's more to loosen up the shoulders than anything else. There's much more to his book than just the "Royal Court", but the other exercises should be familiar to anyone that's ever wrestled, boxed, or taken a martial art. There's nothing in that book that you can't find on the internet. My advice...go to Crossfit and check out what they're doing. It's free information, and a good community of athletes in terms of their message board. Also, do web searches on 'Bodyweight Exercises/Calisthenics' and you'll find TONS of free information. Randall Sexton also mentioned "Scrapper" (Wayne Fisher). I'd check out his products if you've absolutely got some money burning a hole in your pocket. I hope this helps. If you want to know anymore, reply back here or contact me offline. CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entities named above. If this email was received in error or if read by a party which is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, disclosure, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error or are unsure whether it contains confidential or privileged information, please immediately notify us by email or telephone. You are instructed to destroy any and all copies, electronic, paper or otherwise, which you may have of this communication if you are not the intended recipient. Receipt of this communication by any party shall not be deemed a waiver of any legal privilege of any type whatsoever as such privilege may relate to the sender. --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 11:16:43 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] the future of hapkido Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> Those who had there rank given to them, will probably continue to give it away. Some will continue to think dan rank is the most important thing in the world and value collecting paper over a strong organizational or teacher/student relationship. Once, a fellow tried to justify his hapkido 7th dan to me even though he had only been in the art a few years. Very sad. I think he was trying to convince himself. He jumped dan rank and organizations yearly. There is also the current trend in some hapkido organizations to jump dan rank, not just one but several. But hopefully this will come to an end when hapkido looses its 'flavor of the month' status. People will continue to think that hapkido is a supplemental art and not a complete art, simply because they have not trained in hapkido as a complete art. But when folks see the complexity and grace of traditional hapkido, they can get easily hooked. Hapkido is not a hobby for me, it is simply what I do, it is a way of life. Yes, it is more than a little disturbing to see folks with little or no experience obtain a high dan ranking in hapkido. They even find ways to justify it to themselves. Very sad actually. But I believe the prognosis for hapkido is good. As long as there are instructors willing to teach the traditional techniques and values, there will always be students who value what they are learning and will be the next generation to pass it on. I read recently that someone on the DD stated 90% of what he learned, he learned before chodan. That is simply not the case with traditional hapkido. I continue to learn new technique and new theories. I even continue to strengthen the very foundation. I have a lot to learn. We are all beginners and when we loose that mindset, things can go wrong. This June will mark my 30th year since I put on a white belt for the first time, I am still learning, and I am still a beginner. We must continue to teach the 'complete' art. If we do not understand any part, we should learn it instead of assigning a zero value to it. There are many traditional hapkidoin, they just don't get the publicity that others do. But traditional hapkido will survive. Jere R. Hilland www.HapkidoSelfDefense.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Stickfighter87@aol.com Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 13:43:39 EDT Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Army H2H combat To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Well, all I say is kudo's for the US ARMY trying to teach other ways of H2H. When I went through the ARMY basic back in 91 I was so disapointed in the H2H that I had recieved. It was by far a joke and if anyone had tried what they showed us, would of ended up with us Killed. I often thought that the Military should make any form of martial art, wresteling, boxing anytype of contact style mandatory training. These men could have their own choice of what they want to learn or study but as long as they were getting some form of fighting/ or skill that could save them in that field. Granted not all soldiers would want to learn Karate, TKD, BJJ, Boxing etc.....but it should be mandatory they get so many hours a month training and have it on paper...One of the best forms of H2H I would like to see the Military Adopt is the Filipino Knife fighting type of course. Or even do what the LEO's have to go thru much like a PPCT course. Every 3 to 6 months as a requirement. Just sitting around watching a UFC match, or boxing isnt going to be enough training if they had to rely on H2H. I know most of training is based on weapons retention and firearm training and this is great because the typical soldier will have on him / her at all times a some form of firearm but n the case they do not, a knife fighting course of one that plays in this field should be something to look into. Becuase my theory of grappling arts when a soldier has on his belt and or maybe flak jacket and canteens and ruk sak its not gonna be easy to roll around on the ground and be sufficiant at it.....just my two cents worth.... thanks Cory Ballinger I.M.A.A. --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Master Allen" To: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 17:00:40 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkido and kicking Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I saw some entries on Hapkido and kicking. Also on the US military. As Choi Young-Sool taught my instructor in Korea and as I learned there also. Kicks are to assist the technique as to cripple the joints of the ankles, knees, and hips. They should not be deployed above the waist. Striking the floating ribs was allowed from time to time. But frowned upon. As far as training the military, I am right on with JR West. I had to prove myself and then they would listen to you. How do they trust you? They attack you and try to kick your butt. If they don't succeed they will learn from you. If they kick you butt, they laugh you of the base. That is how the SEALs I trained in Korean and Japan were. Not sure about Rangers, they seems a little more eager to learn. But with attitude. "oh, what can you teach us?" Grab my neck............... Master Jeff Allen Chief Instructor President-American Headquarters www.hapkiyoosool.com www.intlhapkido.com International Hapkido Federation --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:50:00 -0400 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Portland Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Lori writes: > If anyone will be in Portland, Oregon on June 18-20, 2004, please come > join us > in sport or as a spectator. Our "City of Roses" is most beautiful in > June! Hello Lori: I wish I could be there to see your city and participate. Being an old Dutchman, I just love flowers. I hope Portland will be equally nice when I DO have a chance to visit in mid-August when I present a Kong Shin Bup Hap Ki Do seminar there for my student Kevin. Best wishes with your event, and I'm sure Kevin will not miss it since he lives right there. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest