Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 12:41:05 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #172 - 18 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. GM Ji's Kicking (Kevin) 2. types of belts (jurgen lur) 3. RE: Matt Furey Workout (Jesse Segovia) 4. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Future_of_Hapkido?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 5. Renee (Dennis McHenry) 6. Renee (Robert Martin) 7. RE: Matt Furey Workout (Stovall, Craig) 8. Re: The future of Hapkido (ABurrese@aol.com) 9. Army H2H combat (jmchie@wideopenwest.com) 10. Re: Army H2H combat (Stickfighter87@aol.com) 11. Graphic design....School new patch layout (Jye nigma) 12. Re: I Agree (Jye nigma) 13. Re: SEAL/Ranger/SF (Tom Stanfield) 14. SEAL/Ranger/SF (Randall Sexton) 15. hapkido kicks (SPIVEY JR) 16. Re: Portland (Lori L Brown) 17. hapkido as "flavor of the month" (SPIVEY JR) 18. Re: hapkido as "flavor of the month" (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Kevin" To: Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 21:10:57 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] GM Ji's Kicking Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "There was a site on the web that had the basic 25 in video format. It may still be around. Some of the kicks were incorrect, but it was pretty close." I was part of the Sin Moo HKD Masters/Instructors 3 day seminar 2 weekends ago with GM Ji and had the privilege of going through the 25 basic (and the 135 not so basic) kicks. I found that even some of his senior students were corrected to follow his current version of the kicks. It is great to see other GMs still trying to improve on a good thing. I was also able to video tape the seminar and got some great footage. I was amazed at GM Ji's perseverance because about a week before the seminar he had gallbladder surgery. Even with the coaxing from his students he would not stay off the mat. I can say that man has a passion for teaching. Sincerely, Kevin Janisse --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 00:41:37 -0700 (PDT) From: jurgen lur To: The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] types of belts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Can somebody tell me the correct colors of a 7th Dan (Grandmaster), and a 9th Dan (Grandmaster) belt. This is in the art of Tang Soo Do. Are they black or black with a red stripe in the middle. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway - Enter today --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 08:26:19 -0400 From: Jesse Segovia To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Matt Furey Workout Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thanks, Bob and Craig, for the help. 'Guess I'll look to see what's on the internet and if nothing jumps out at me, maybe stick with what I'm already doing. Jesse --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 08:17:10 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Future_of_Hapkido?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Jere: "....People will continue to think that hapkido is a supplemental art and not a complete art, simply because they have not trained in hapkido as a complete art. But when folks see the complexity and grace of traditional hapkido, they can get easily hooked. Hapkido is not a hobby for me, it is simply what I do, it is a way of life. Yes, it is more than a little disturbing to see folks with little or no experience obtain a high dan ranking in hapkido. They even find ways to justify it to themselves. Very sad actually......" I think your post hit the issue square on the button! In my experience easily 90% of the people who come to me about Hapkido arts view them as something other than worthy of respect as an art in and of itself. Among these are people who view Hapkido as just a bag of tricks. Other people see it as just bad Aikido or AJJ. Yet others see it as a mix of kicking and ju-jutsu. I very rarely hear people address Hapkido as a thoroughly integrated combat art and I think this stems from three good reasons. 1.) In an effort to promote Hapkido arts people are accepted ("grandfathered") into schools and organizations without actually having to work their way up through the curriculum of a specific art. 2.) The broad spectrum of differing views of Hapkido arts in the Hapkido community itself contributes to an image of "a house divided" rather than uniformity. 3.) Focus on those things that contribute to the development of the Hapkido arts over the years rather than the selection process by which some material was accepted and some ruled out. For example, there is a reason why some Long Fist Chin-Na can be found in Hapkido but that the concussive techniques are usually left-off in deference to the striking methods of Taekwondo, Karate or even Western Boxing. I am very concerned that unless we in the Hapkido community don't bite the bullet and start addressing these issues, the only Hapkido people will find in the future will be under "H" in the dictionary. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 13:50:58 GMT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Dennis McHenry Subject: [The_Dojang] Renee Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I remember being on the receiving end of Master Renee West demonstrating a seated self defense move during one of her seminars (my first real introduction to her) and was extremely impressed with the pain she caused with her simple moves. I kept telling my daughter about her, and she became a roll model for my daughter too. A funny story � at last year�s seminar where Master JR West was teaching at Master Hodder�s dojang in Seabrook(Houston) � one of my students, a fairly large man was working with my young daughter on something and she injured his elbow. He needed to wear a sling for a week or so, and was always embarrassed when he had to explain how he hurt his arm � he had to explain a little 14 year old girl hurt him :-) Hopefully, Mindy can learn to be as mean� I mean as good at putting the hurt on as Master Renee was. Mac ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 07:02:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Martin To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Renee Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Master West, Your comments about your late wife reminded me of something that Choi Hong Hi said. I think it applies to Mrs. West. (I'll parapharse as I don't have the full quote here.) "When young, teach with the body; when old, teach with words; and when gone, teach by moral precept." I never met Mrs. West but I hope that all those who lives where touched by her will remember her in their training. Robert Martin --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:55:16 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Matt Furey Workout Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bob wrote, <<>> I'd appreciate an impartial review of the "Combat Abs" book. I didn't give the most glowing review for his CC program, but I'd still be interested (read: open minded) to know if some of his other products might hold some value for me. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks! Craig "Heels on Floor Squatter" Stovall CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entities named above. If this email was received in error or if read by a party which is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, disclosure, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error or are unsure whether it contains confidential or privileged information, please immediately notify us by email or telephone. You are instructed to destroy any and all copies, electronic, paper or otherwise, which you may have of this communication if you are not the intended recipient. Receipt of this communication by any party shall not be deemed a waiver of any legal privilege of any type whatsoever as such privilege may relate to the sender. --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 11:13:23 -0400 From: ABurrese@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: The future of Hapkido Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >>There are many traditional >>hapkidoin, they just don't get the publicity that others do. >>But traditional >>hapkido will survive. Jere R. Hilland Well said Jere, Thanks for the post. Alain www.burrese.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: jmchie@wideopenwest.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Army H2H combat Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 10:51:21 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net My sister's husband just got back from a year in Iraq . . . he was part of the giant airdrop into Kirkuk early in the war, and he finished ranger school a few years ago. I asked him once about the hand-to-hand fighting skills he was taught, and this is a paraphrase/summary of the approach to h2h combat he was taught: Your primary goal is to kill the enemy, but your secondary goal is to survive for 60-90 seconds. Within that minute to minute and a half, either his reinforcements will arrive, or yours will. I always thought that was an interesting way to think about it. Jim McHie Jr. --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Stickfighter87@aol.com Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 12:15:58 EDT Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Army H2H combat To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net oh yeah.......thats very true.......average life expectancy your taught while in battle on the field as an 11B (infantry) or Ranger etc......is approx 6 seconds.....so if you make it longer than that....your doing really good... Cory Ballinger I.M.A.A. --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:39:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Graphic design....School new patch layout Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi everyone, I had gotten a request to design a school patch for someone on this list but I think I deleted their email by accident. Whoever it was, please email me again offline and give me an idea of what you want and I'll most liking crank it out the same day. Jye --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway - Enter today --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 09:52:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] I Agree To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I used to work with a guy who always made reference to what they did in the military. So, one day I'm working on a laptop, and there's a dried brown substance on the underside of the keyboard. I guess it was probably coffee (*the user didn't know why the keyboard stopped working ALL OF A SUDDEN*) I was like this is why, she spilled something on it. The guy comes over licks his finger, rubs it on the brown stuff and licks his finger to taste it....I was like, man don't do that you don't know what that stuff is. He was like "I've eaten worse in the military, I've eaten crazy stuff in the military, etc". So when he leaves, this other guy I worked with came over and was like, he probably didn't do anything (see any live action) in the military. Then he was like people who were in the military and actually did something wont sit around and talk (brag) about it. Then he said he was in the military, I was like no way....and he whipped out this picture of him in the military attire with a gun that was taller then him...lol. Other then that day,he never mentioned being in the military. But it's the same thing with martial arts. You'll have some who never mention it, and some who always feel they need to put on a show. Jye MIND and BODY FITNESS LLC wrote: Sharon This is a little venting so take it as that. I completely agree with you on the different types of students and got a really big laugh out of it. I do believe I have personnally met everyonre of these types. I am not sure if you have met this other type but I seem to encounter alot of these. You would call him: Mr. Special Forces, He is 25-50 years old , over weight and has been all over the world and killed everything from mice to men. He cannot train his children to fight because he only knows how to kill, so he brings them to you for training and sits in the corner and comments on how they did it in the service. You ever encounter any of these? I live in a small area in Oklahoma and it seems that every navey seal or special forces has settled in the area Mike Cejka _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway - Enter today --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "Tom Stanfield" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] SEAL/Ranger/SF Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 12:39:09 -0500 Organization: Home Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hoo-Raaa! Well stated Mr Nieckarz . . I took the college money, but did it for the far more than that. Tom Stanfiield, former 18-Delta (SF Combat Medic) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Curt Nieckarz" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 9:40 AM Subject: [The_Dojang] SEAL/Ranger/SF > Just wanted to respond to a couple of things that were written recently: > > Master Richards wrote: > > “Somehow he managed to give us a fair does of PT that would leave the macho > Seals and Ranger type gasping for air in a puddle of sweat :-) “ > > > Now, I’m not sure if you were referring to college-age Seal/Ranger > wannabees, ex-Seal/Rangers, or current Seal/Rangers. But if it was > anything other than the wannabees, I find it hard to believe that any of > the other students were left standing if these guys were “gasping for air > in a puddle of sweat.” For the uninformed, try reading “Warrior Elite” > which follows a BUD/S (Basic Underwater Demolitions/SEAL) class thru their > training. > > > and Mike Cejka wrote: > > > “During the training day prior there were at least 50 to 75 men standing > off to the side of the field just watching the combative course being > taught. I inquired about why they were not included in the course. The > answer I received was the training we were providing (at no cost) was > optional and not required. After learning this I wandered over to the bunch > of non participants and began to ask individuals why they were not > participating. The answers, no I mean excuses I received were horrifying to > hear as a civilian. They ranged from "I only joined for the college money", > to a weeny "I am out on medical condition" or " It is not required so I am > just taking paid break to watch and smoke." “ > > > It’s been some time since I served in the Army (got out in ‘78) but it’s my > understanding that the Ranger battalions are still all manned with > volunteers - all Airborne qualified and most Ranger qualified. The > exception may be, for example - company clerks, cooks, etc, who do not > really need to be Ranger qualified. But the line companies are filled with > young, eager, gung-ho Ranger qualified studs. The Ranger school is 3 > months of hell where you get about 5 hours of sleep in a 5-day training > cycle - some of the most grueling training the military has to offer. And > yes, there is some H2H instruction (at least more than what most soldiers > get). Personally, I don’t know of anyone who would go thru all of that > “for the college money”. > > > Somebody please correct me if I’m wrong. Just didn’t want anyone to get > the wrong impression of our elite forces. These guys are dedicated > professionals. Sorry for the long post... > > > Respectfully ----Curt Nieckarz --__--__-- Message: 14 From: "Randall Sexton" To: Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 08:49:41 -1000 Subject: [The_Dojang] SEAL/Ranger/SF Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The only SF/Ranger guy I ever had any dealings with just loved to fight. Richard (I can't remember his last name but think it started with a "B") did two tours of duty in Vietnam, made it to Captain, then was knocked back to E-7 due to no college. He went through medic school with me at Ft. Sam Houston in 1972 for a year and then was heading for PA school at the same base. He was hitting all the ranks: officer, enlisted and warrant officer. We used to fight underwater in my apartment swimming pool trying to choke each other out and kick each other in the neverlands. I managed to knock my own self out on the side of the pool during one of these scrapes. If anyone has ever run into crazy Richard, I'd sure like to get in touch with him although I'm sure his wife probably shot him many years ago! He's probably still known around Ft. Sam as the only medic who wore his Ranger badge on his white uniform and refused to take it off. Randall Sexton www.USAHealthcareCrisis.com --__--__-- Message: 15 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 12:34:37 -0700 (PDT) From: SPIVEY JR To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] hapkido kicks Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net jeff, thanks for posting the info on kicking techniques in choi young sool's original art. your information is quite consistent with what we have learned from master im hyun soo, who continues to teach hapkido as master choi taught it to him. we have actually heard him refer to high kicks as "very dangerous". he teaches a variety of kicks that strike from the waist down. and, as you note, the occasional kick to the floating ribs (usually one we call a "scorpion sting", a bit hard to describe, it's kind of like an inside-out roundhouse kick, the ball of the kicking foot chambers at the inside of the opposite knee and strikes outward, the striking surface is the toes or the instep). --__--__-- Message: 16 From: "Lori L Brown" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Portland Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 12:36:27 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Rudy, please let us know when and where your seminar will be in Portland this August. Will it be open to everyone from other schools? Where are you traveling from? If you need any info on the Portland tourist scene, please don't hesitate to ask. It is always warm and beautiful here in Portland in August. We go up to Vancouver, Washington, to study Hapkido with Master Steve Mukensnabl -- http://www.hapki.com/index.htm. He has one of the best schools in the Portland Metro area. Our Korean Tae Kwon Do Grand Master was VERY impressed with Master Steve's expertise in Hapkido -- he even knew the master that Steve studied with in Korea -- name escapes me -- but it is sometimes a very small world. Lori Brown --__--__-- Message: 17 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 12:45:48 -0700 (PDT) From: SPIVEY JR To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] hapkido as "flavor of the month" Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net to jere hilland, unfortunately, your post contains much that is very accurate. there seems to have been a big increase lately in "hapkido" training in schools that focus on other arts. and like most other arts, in hapkido there are people around with high dans (say, 4th and above) who clearly would never hold those ranks in any legitimate traditional system. could i suggest some reasons why i think people shy away from traditional hapkido? one, it takes years to learn the techniques to the point that you are proficient and would be able to use them in a real situation. so, the instant gratification that is important to so many people these days is absent. two, it is uncomfortable. you get thrown to the ground a lot, you get your joints cranked, you get punched and kicked. three, there is no competition, therefore no trophies, no tournaments, etc. those things attract a lot of people to martial arts. i agree with you that as long as there are competent and dedicated instructors of traditional hapkido, the art will endure. as you say, it is a complete system of self defense. btw, i had been thinking that the new flavor of the month was bjj... --__--__-- Message: 18 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] hapkido as "flavor of the month" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 13:14:09 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > ...as you say, it is a complete system of self defense. What is a complete system of self-defense? e.g. does it include tactical firearms training? I submit that there is no "complete" system of self-defense (save for my trademarked "We Have That, Too" system :), as it would contain far too many elements to master or learn. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest