Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 19:29:05 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #173 - 16 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: hapkido kicks (Ray Terry) 2. Re: hapkido as "flavor of the month" (jeffrey kiral) 3. Thanx for the memories (J.R. West) 4. Re: KFC Homecoming (ISA Headquarters) 5. Master Belt Colors (Dunn, Danny J GARRISON) 6. Flava of da Month (Stovall, Craig) 7. RE: Matt Furey Workout (Robert Hartley) 8. Memories of Master Renee West (J R Hilland) 9. hapkido (J R Hilland) 10. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Too_many_techniques=3F=3F=3F?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 11. Future of Hapkido (Bernard Maginnity) 12. Types of Belts... (Master Arce) 13. Re:_Too_many_techniques (Ray Terry) 14. Working Out (Randall Sexton) 15. Wannabees (Charles Richards) 16. Memory Lane (Charles Richards) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] hapkido kicks To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 13:30:56 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > we have actually heard him refer to high kicks as "very dangerous". I too believe that high kicks can be very dangerous. Especially for the average to even above average kicker. But for a few very talented people out there (not me, mind you), high kicks are very dangerous... to the person on the receiving end of the kick. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "jeffrey kiral" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] hapkido as "flavor of the month" Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 16:43:29 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I am pretty sure that Master Hilland said Hapkido is a complete martial art and not just an add-on to TKD or TSD...I agree that there is no such thing as a complete self-defense system...even Hapkido is constantly growing and adapting as it should as times change... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Terry" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 1:14 PM Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] hapkido as "flavor of the month" > > ...as you say, it is a complete system of self defense. > > What is a complete system of self-defense? e.g. does it include tactical > firearms training? > > I submit that there is no "complete" system of self-defense (save for my > trademarked "We Have That, Too" system :), as it would contain far too many > elements to master or learn. > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "J.R. West" To: Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 15:44:40 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Thanx for the memories Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net On behalf of my students, family and myself, I would like to thank everyone for the kind remembrances of Renee. By the way, to those of you that thought you saw a ghost sitting behind the tables at the seminar in Jackson, that was Mara, our daughter, age 18...J. R. West www.hapkido.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "ISA Headquarters" To: Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 16:51:57 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: KFC Homecoming Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I just arrived back home from a great weekend in the mountains of Alabama (above Birmingham). There were over 70 participants and at least a dozen instructors for the seminar. Our hosts, GM Lumpkin and M Covington, were gracious as usual and ran the events so smoothly you didn't miss a beat. Great instruction in JuJitsu, Hapkido and Taekwondo. Can't wait for the next one. It is good to be with friends. George Petrotta www.sungjado.org isahdq@sc.rr.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Dunn, Danny J GARRISON" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 15:56:23 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Master Belt Colors Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net That would be a definite "IT DEPENDS". Different people and different orgs do different things, so it depends on the person and the organization. Probably the most widely accepted in Tang soo Do is black with a central red stripe for all masters. But some orgs and people use plain black belts while others vary belt by rank, in which case you start seeing variations such as 2 central red stripes on a black belt, followed by color blocking,usually red and white and red and black, ect. It keeps the belt makers in business. Danny Dunn <<<<>>>>>> --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 17:04:11 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Flava of da Month Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> Interesting comments regarding arts being considered "flavor of the month". I guess it depends upon your definition of the term. Either way, it is very interesting to observe the process by which some arts burst upon the scene, and then rapidly fade away. FWIW, BJJ did burst upon the American martial arts scene just like so many other arts have. However, seeing as how the watershed event (UFC 1) took place in 1993, I guess you could say that BJJ has been the "FOTM" for well over 120 months running. People may call me crazy, but I honestly see BJJ being practiced on a magnitude similar to TKD in the next 3 decades. Not quite as big, but it will be huge. People just don't understand the underground phenomenon that's associated with this art. If you're sick of seeing BJJ articles every month in the magazines...then I've got bad news for you. BJJ ain't going away anytime soon. I've yet to see another martial art that has captured the imaginations of young people like the ground grappling arts have. Forget the schools and academies for a minute...I know a heck of a lot of people that are doing BJJ in "garage groups" because of a lack of a "real school" in their area. There's a hunger for the art out there (admittedly by young males for the most part) that I've just never seen before. Not trying to beat the drum (myself, I could care less what others choose to praise, bash, or acknowledge), but I think it's too engrained at this point. It's moved beyond "FOTM" status. It was very interesting to see things churn during the 80's. Every month seemed to have it's own associated "FOTM" martial art. JKD starting spreading around and there was a huge interest in that for obvious reasons. Of course, Filipino Martial Arts had it's little run as sort of a flavor, and there was a time where an article about FMA was in every magazine each month. In fact, anything from SE Asia kind of "had it's time" during some part of the 80's...Muay Thai, Kali/Arnis/Escrima, Silat, Bersilat, Bando, Viet Vo Dao, etc. Muay Thai and FMA have definitely stuck it out and most martial artists recognize those names when they hear them. If you say "Bando" to most martial artists they'll be in the same boat as anyone else...they'll think you're talking about that stuff they use in auto body repair shops. Don't even get me started on Ninjutsu. That was THE flavor of the 80's. Geez, I can remember when every other ad in the magazines was about selling you some ninja product...ninja sword, ninja claws, ninja boots, ninja cereal, ninja condoms. By god, if they could print "Ninja" on it then they were going to sell it as such. By the late 80's, anything that could be labeled "kickboxing" was all the rage, and represented a bit of a mini-Renaissance. People were no longer interested in the esoteric aspects that drew the crowds in the past...folks just wanted to "kick some ass" and kickboxing seemed to fit the bill for whatever reason. Of course, we had a lot of REALLY crappy movies to go along with that fad...thank you JC van Damme, Don Wilson, Dale "Apollo" Cook, and Jerry Trimble. The Academy may have shunned your work, but you'll always be number one in my heart (NOT!!!). The 90's was strange...you just didn't see a lot of "new" stuff (read: new to us) come out. Obviously, the BJJ/NHB/MMA thing caught a lot of people's imaginations, and probably filtered some things out of the public's consciousness. Krav Maga hit the scene, and was definitely "FOTM". KM is still around obviously, but I don't think it's going to be as big as certain interested parties had hoped. Of course, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention TAE BO!!! From 98 to 99, I thought I was going to puke everytime I saw some pasty white accountant wearing Thai shorts, a bright yellow wife beater, wrestling shoes, and lime green hand wraps...beating the crap out of the air accompanied by the latest techno dance song. I guess the "Cardio Kickboxing" thing is here to stay, but I think it's safe to say that a lot of people have just gone back to aerobics, spinning, yoga, pilates, or whatever other method that they think will take the most amount of lard off of their rear for the least amount of effort. Here's my "Flava" timeline (perceptions vary). 1945 to 1955 was Karate. 1956 to 1965 was Judo. 1966 to 1975 was Kung-fu. 1976 to 1980 was TKD/JKD. 1981 to 1985 was JKD/Ninjutsu/SE Asian Arts. 1986 to 1992 was Kickboxing. 1993 to Present is/was BJJ/MMA/NHB, Combatives (Krav Maga, Ladies Self-Defense groups, etc), and "MA as fitness" (Tae Bo, Tai Chi, etc). Hard to say what the "next big thing" will be. Personally, I see Judo making a bit of a comeback as it will kind of ride the coat tails of BJJ. Those BJJ players are now looking to Judo to kind of fill in some technical gaps (standing game), and they could very well look to other things like Traditional Japanese Jujutsu, Aikido, Hapkido, etc.. There never HAS been the proverbial "something new under the sun", and that's certainly true in the information age that we now find ourselves in. I just don't see anything sneaking up on us like in the past. There will always be "flavas", but I think we're going to be savoring old flavors again as opposed to dining on totally new treats. For what it's worth... CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entities named above. If this email was received in error or if read by a party which is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, disclosure, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error or are unsure whether it contains confidential or privileged information, please immediately notify us by email or telephone. You are instructed to destroy any and all copies, electronic, paper or otherwise, which you may have of this communication if you are not the intended recipient. Receipt of this communication by any party shall not be deemed a waiver of any legal privilege of any type whatsoever as such privilege may relate to the sender. --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 19:03:58 -0400 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Robert Hartley Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Matt Furey Workout Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "I'd appreciate an impartial review of the "Combat Abs" book. I didn't give the most glowing review for his CC program, but I'd still be interested (read: open minded) to know if some of his other products might hold some value for me. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks! Craig "Heels on Floor Squatter" Stovall" Craig, it is mainly a lot of "old faithful" exercises, from bicycle crunches to V-situps (and variations.) Not that it's bad to be reminded of them. He does have two exercises that are new to me- one called the "Farmer Burns Stomach Flattener", based on advice from an old time wrestler named Martin "Farmer" Burns, and "The Vacuum." Like the three main exercises in the Combat Conditioning book, he has his "Magnificent Seven" abdominal exercises. I haven't been following his advice with any regularity, so I can't say how beneficial the exercises are. I know on the Combat Conditioning, the first time I tried the Hindu squats, I only did 40, and my thighs were VERY tight. So, I do know I have work to do. Bob "the Man from Maine" Hartley --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 18:20:49 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Memories of Master Renee West Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net While my wife and I were attending the annual Mosinee, Wisconsin hapkido seminar (it is coming up again) several years ago, the news folks showed up. Renee grabbed me by the head in front of the camera, palm under my chin and other hand on the back of my head (not to pull out the few hairs left) and proceeded to turn and kneel at a full speed throwing me on the ground. She then had the young lady doing the interview for the news do it to me while they were still filming, and Renee told her not to worry about hurting me, of course I was smiling. Then when we were back at the hotel, we turned on the there it was, on the 10:00 news. Renee was kind enough to send me a video tape copy she received from the TV station. Jere R. Hilland www.HapkidoSelfDefense.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 18:36:11 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] hapkido Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Well the flavor of the month now is BJJ, they created an art, then built an entire sport around it. An empire actually, but not everyone wants to get in a ring and fight. Some don't care about trophies or have been there and done that. Many Korean MA still want to stay within the Korean context and keep the dojang a dojang. Yes, it takes a long time to become proficient in hapkido, but it is worth it and traditional hapkido is an honorable and exciting art. There is a lot to learn. For those seeking this kind of path, hapkido will be around. Bruce's comment about people being grand fathered into hapkido organizations is on the mark. It is as bad as dan and organizational jumping in my opinion. But the leaders of these organization need to remember what 'time in rank' and 'quality of technique' is all about. They have lost touch with what traditional hapkido is about. Jere R. Hilland www.HapkidoSelfDefense.com <<>> <<>> <<>> --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 19:00:15 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Too_many_techniques=3F=3F=3F?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Ray: ".....I submit that there is no "complete" system of self-defense (save for my trademarked "We Have That, Too" system :), as it would contain far too many elements to master or learn......" I don't know if I go along with that. General Qi came up with 32 methods that was more than enough for his men to take care of themselves. GM Myung has a Ke-bon-su which is 10 techniques and I understand that Aikido is essentially permutations of 8 techniques used this way and that way. I think you are right that anyone can make something harder and harder to learn. The Shaolin Temple is recorded as having to divide its curriculum up into 12 arts, each under a particular animal totem, just to be able to manage all the material brought to them over the years. Personally I think that people with some commecial bent continually add material (or change or rearrange it) so as to keep students dependent on them for the next big thing. I don't consider this sort of dependency actual education as much as greening the art. As far as teaching a lot of techniques, the only reason I can see that is so that each individual is exposed to enough techniques as to develop their own personal catalogue of 20 or so tried and true, never-fail techniques. This catalogue won't be the same for everyone so each person needs to be exposed to the entire curriculum so as to have a fair chance at identifying his particular group of no- fail techniques. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 10:13:44 +1000 From: "Bernard Maginnity" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Future of Hapkido Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce Sometimes I just don't get it, and this is one of those times. When you first started out on the DD you were very apprehensive of training with other styles/people and (to my recollection) were regularly asked to attend this do down in Jackson. After declining for a number of reasons and for some time, you obviously attended. Since then you have attended more than once and are one of the most ardent supporters of this event and the major players who represent themselves at it. Does this not illustrate the move toward better quality control and the further enhancement of KMA in general and Hapkido in particular? Heck, when I first joined the DD this list was a predominantly tae kwon do discussion forum, now how much bandwidth is given to Hapkido related discussion over Taekwon, gumdo, tangsoo do etc? Jere, I don't know what the circumstances behind your recent move were, but you went to the trouble of setting up a new Dojang from scratch and building it up only a couple of years ago. I realise that it is not all smooth sailing owning and running your own Dojang. But to illustrate my point, I met a local Hapkido Master a few years back. I met him BECAUSE he was an institution. Everyone I spoke to kept directing me to him, because he had been around for a long time, his stuff was good and people knew it and knew of him because he was visible (had been in the same location for a number of years). Now when I speak to anyone local about Martial Arts they ask what I do and EVERYONE knows about Hapkido even if they haven't done it themselves. That was never the case with Taekwon do, someone would always say you should try XYZ... Please don't read this as a flame in any way. As I said in the beginning, I don't get it. It is my experience that Hapkido's flame is burning more brightly, more magazine coverage, greater public knowledge...IMO Kind regards Bernie Maginnity NOTICE The information contained in this electronic mail message is privileged and confidential, and is intended only for use of the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender by reply transmission and delete the message without copying or disclosing it. Mission Australia has implemented anti-virus software, and whilst all care is taken, it is the recipient's responsibility to ensure that any attachments are scanned for viruses prior to use. --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 18:04:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Master Arce To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Types of Belts... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Can somebody tell me the correct colors of a 7th Dan (Grandmaster), and a 9th Dan (Grandmaster) belt. This is in the art of Tang Soo Do. Are they black or black with a red stripe in the middle. The Black or Midnight Blue Belt is solid until 4th Dan, then the Red Strip goes down the middle of the Belt. In some TSD Orgs, the Red Strip will turn into Two Red Strips at 7th and higher.... Master Arce DO SAN DOJANG Oh Dan Dan # 4061 Soo Bahk Ki International --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway - Enter today --__--__-- Message: 13 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 18:06:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Re:_Too_many_techniques Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > ".....I submit that there is no "complete" system of self-defense (save > for my trademarked "We Have That, Too" system :), as it would contain far > too many elements to master or learn......" > > I don't know if I go along with that. General Qi came up with 32 methods > that was more than enough for his men to take care of themselves. GM > Myung has a Ke-bon-su which is 10 techniques and I understand that Aikido > is essentially permutations of 8 techniques used this way and that way. Are/were they "complete" arts? i.e. how do you think they are using the term complete? Or do you really care.?. :) Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 14 From: "Randall Sexton" To: Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 16:12:45 -1000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Working Out Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net You can get a lot of opinions about workouts here: http://www.dragondoor.com/ Steve Cotter, a martial artist, has a good "Full K.O.ntact Kettlebells: The Martial Art of Strength Training DVD that is good. In a opening scene, he does a split (legs front and rear) on two of those exercise balls, then bounces up and reverses legs...all while holding two kettlebells. Pavel, the evil Russan, has great stuff and has made me into the man I now think I am about to become! No comments, Mr. West! It's just a lot of fun being able to outdo my 20 year old son who works out and who has the build suitable for an underwear model! Randall Sexton www.USAHealthcareCrisis.com --__--__-- Message: 15 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 19:22:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Wannabees Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "Now, I’m not sure if you were referring to college-age Seal/Ranger > wannabees, ex-Seal/Rangers, or current Seal/Rangers. " Curt, That would be college age wannabees. Hope I didn't offend. Yours in Jung Do, Charles Richards www.mojakwan.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ --__--__-- Message: 16 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 19:41:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Memory Lane Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Every time I do a seminar and see a couple of women just tearing someone up with that unmistakeable fire in their controlled technique, I know that Renee is still there......Thanx....J. R. West Dear GM West, Moja Kwan women consider it a complement when someone outside our dojang says they kick like a girl. Renee indeed lives in the hearts of the ladies at our dojang. I am thankful they have Mindy Sabom Nim as a living role model. In a year or two we might just have our first lady Cho Dan's. Recently I had two teenage girls join. I think it's because I have some quality female color belts as peer models for them. It sure isn't my good looks :-) Cheers, Charles Richards www.mojakwan.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest