Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 15:27:06 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #177 - 17 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Oregon NKMAA seminar (Rudy Timmerman) 2. Re: IHF (Klaas Barends) 3. Re: Which IHF ? (Master Allen) 4. Women in the arts (Burdick, Dakin R) 5. Re: Which IHF ? (Ray Terry) 6. Training opportunities in Philadelphia's western suburbs. (Frank Leonard) 7. Re: Women in the arts (Lori L Brown) 8. GrandMaster Peter G. Urban, Ph.D. passed away (Master Arce) 9. Hapkido Limitations? (FirstPe315@aol.com) 10. reply to craig stovall on hapkido in magazines (howard.spivey) 11. Re: Re: IHF (Ray Terry) 12. "taking up drajj" (howard.spivey) 13. Belts. (Charles Richards) 14. Public Perception of Hapkido (Bert Edens) 15. Public Perception, continued... (Bert Edens) 16. Re: Re: IHF (Master Allen) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 04:49:47 -0400 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Oregon NKMAA seminar Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Lori writes: > I will be happy to help promote and distribute them among many > students that I know would be very excited about your > seminar. Hello Lori: Thanks for your generous offer to assist Kevin. This will be my first venture your way, and I sure am looking forward to it. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 19:09:28 +0800 From: Klaas Barends To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: IHF Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Jeff, > > Is this the same International Hapkido Federation in Korea that does Hankido > as well as Hapkido? > > It appears to be different, yet the above IHF site claims to be the only > Korean goverment recognized IHF. > > The IHF at www.hapkido.or.kr is also recognized by the Korean goverment. I thought the master Jang mentioned on the website had left the IHF a couple of years ago. (after Myung Jae Nam's death?) Furthermore there is no such thing as 'The International HKD Federation American Headquarters'. Or there are several of them. (again politics, politics, politics) At this moment there are few schools in the U.S. who have a close relationship with the IHF here in Korea. Most Korean teachers in the US came there long before Myung Jae Nam had institionalized his hankido curriculum. -- mvg. Klaas Barends http://www.hapkido.nl/ --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Master Allen" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Which IHF ? Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 08:32:19 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Completely Different IHF. We are not connected to them at all. There are actually Three IHF recognized by the Korean Gov. Ours, Myong Jae-Nam (that website link) and Bong-Soo Han. There organization is NOT the only one recognized by the Gov. They have tried to discredit others for years. In Fact, My instructor Grandmaster Jang, Yong-Shil was great friends with Myong Jae-Nam for a very long time. They trained together along sith Ji Han-Jae, and Han Bong-Soo. After Myong Jae-Nam's death, the other IHF has been trying to make us look like fakes when we have been the IHF since before 1970. They have been IHF since 1980's. I think we beat them on the draw. Master Jeff Allen Chief Instructor President-American Headquarters www.hapkiyoosool.com www.intlhapkido.com International Hapkido Federation ----- Original Message ----- From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 6:48 PM Subject: [The_Dojang] Which IHF ? > Master Jeff Allen > Chief Instructor > President-American Headquarters > www.hapkiyoosool.com> > www.intlhapkido.com> > International Hapkido Federation Jeff, Is this the same International Hapkido Federation in Korea that does Hankido as well as Hapkido? It appears to be different, yet the above IHF site claims to be the only Korean goverment recognized IHF. The IHF at www.hapkido.or.kr is also recognized by the Korean goverment. Related? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 08:12:51 -0500 From: "Burdick, Dakin R" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Women in the arts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Just a couple of stories and a thought... First, my wife trained in the martial arts (we met at a demo!) and was very serious about it. There is a photo of her on the IU TKD Club site doing a head level sidekick when she was 8 months pregnant (slowly of course). But she is half my size and she doesn't like training self-defense with me, because she has to get nasty. She can do it, she just doesn't like doing it all the time. At the same time, I always have her try a new technique out on me, because if she can do it on me, it is a good one. Second, I had a student who was a little tiny woman and one of the nastiest I've ever had the pleasure to meet. We were working on hair grabs and when we do it we grab the hair hard and pull them down and back to open up the throat. The first time I did this to her, she spun around and punched me in the nuts. Hard. "Perfect!" I gasped out. It was beautiful! I loved watching the eyes on guys pop out when they had to test with her. She never hurt them, but she was so intense that she scared the crud out of 'em. So I guess I can see both sides here. I've seen female students who have had shoulders dislocated and ribs broken by larger male partners in just an easy going practice. I'm serious! In one, the woman was stomach down and was being shoulder barred quite gently. Pop! In another, the guy was applying an armbar on the ground and arched backwards. His weight alone caused a rib to pop loose from her sternum! There is a reason that women tend to be scared of pain and damage, even above and beyond the fact that a quarter to a third of your female students will have suffered an attack in the past and may still have flashbacks of that. So Lori, have patience with those timid women and be a cheerleader for them. Help 'em out, ok? Take care, Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Which IHF ? To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 07:02:29 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Completely Different IHF. We are not connected to them at all. There are > actually Three IHF recognized by the Korean Gov. Your IHF website claims you are the -only- IHF recognized as such. "Please do not confuse the International Hapkido Federation with any other organization with the same name. Our organization is one of only three Hapkido organizations recognized by the Korean government. We are NOT affiliated with ANY other US organization of the same name." Actually I believe there are now more than three HKD orgs recognized by the Koeran gov. With perhaps more to come. > Ours, Myong Jae-Nam (that website link) and Bong-Soo Han. I do not believe that Gm Han's IHF is recognized by the Korean government, nor is it interested in that. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Frank Leonard" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Training opportunities in Philadelphia's western suburbs. Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 11:00:56 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi all, We'll be moving north in a couple of weeks. Any recommendations for training in that area? Specifically, Springfield, Upper Darby, Media area. Are there any listers there? Thanks Frank --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Lori L Brown" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Women in the arts Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 08:57:03 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dakin wrote: "There is a reason that women tend to be scared of pain and damage, even above and beyond the fact that a quarter to a third of your female students will have suffered an attack in the past and may still have flashbacks of that. So Lori, have patience with those timid women and be a cheerleader for them. Help 'em out, ok?" Sir, Thank you very much for sharing your stories. I am a mother, too, and I can have all the patience in the world for the young ones. I guess I need to work on having more patience for some adults, too. I use to be the one who always got trounced on, but I learned the most from those incidents and it made me want to overcome and be "smarter." My best sparring partner is smaller than me, but she is FAST! She's knocked the wind out of me several times with her powerful back kicks! I have since learned to "get out of the way of her back kick!" She is an awesome martial artists and I try to improve my skill because of her. I will try to remember how I had to overcome that feeling of paralyzing fear and now am able to react swiftly -- and it does take a lot of work. But we train hard to be better. I was really having fun knife sparring (with masks and rubber training knives) with that same timid woman. I let her score points on me until she began coming viciously at my face! Well, we all know how that adreneline kicks in..... I saw an opening for a disarm, did so, did a very gentle take down, then helped her up. So I see her being really intense one moment, with sparring and knife sparring both, then she becomes extremely timid when we (as a class) work on technique. Well, maybe a new strategy is in order. I will try next week. And I will remember.... patience. I appreciate input and try to think of new ideas. Thanks! Lori --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 08:59:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Master Arce To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] GrandMaster Peter G. Urban, Ph.D. passed away Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net RIP for a Legend........ : ( --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway - Enter today --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 12:23:52 -0400 From: FirstPe315@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkido Limitations? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce- An interesting analysis. In some cases this may be true. However, definitely not in all. In my system of Hapkido and the WHA more specifically, grappling is a significant component. I guess, being an ex-boxer, my focus on the use of hands is more than most but my students would never think that Hapkido doesn't use their hands to a strong degree because to them, that is normal. Perhaps there is not as much time spent on it. There is so much to learn in Hapkido...my goodness! Let's remember about TKD, a "majority" of it is competition oriented and not very functional. Therefore, the range they have doesn't really matter. In Hapkido, at least in my style and where I was originally taught, all of the major kicks (again...front, side, round, tournback side) can all be done in close and from a distance of about 1 foot to 2 feet (body to body) these are effective and strong. TKD does NOT have this range which is why, IMHO, their "overall" range is inferior to Hapkido. Just my .02c Jeff number 2 In a message dated 4/8/2004 5:17:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > By this I mean that Hapkido, for instance, does not have the kicking range > >that some TKD arts do. It does not have the ground > fighting that BJJ has. > >It does not have the punching > science that Western Boxing has. --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "howard.spivey" To: Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 12:36:49 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] reply to craig stovall on hapkido in magazines Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net craig, i think you make some excellent points. there are indeed some very clever businessmen promoting "hapkido" in the press and on the internet. some of these guys have realized that there is a real market for "hapkido" in tkd schools and in other schools that focus on sports / competition. they are simply providing the supply side of the supply / demand equation. smart point fighters realize that their skills may be great in tournaments, where you have to follow rules, but in a self-defense situation they're going to need additional skills. but they don't want to switch to a pure self-defense art, because their main interest is still sports / competition. so they "supplement" their training with a smattering of "hapkido". this probably will not go away, because the demand for it will probably continue. on the other hand, we can only hope that the few dojangs that continue to teach traditional hapkido will survive and will create a new generation of students who can pass the traditional art on. --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: IHF To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 09:37:59 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > Is this the same International Hapkido Federation in Korea that does Hankido > > as well as Hapkido? > > > > It appears to be different, yet the above IHF site claims to be the only > > Korean goverment recognized IHF. > > > > The IHF at www.hapkido.or.kr is also recognized by the Korean goverment. > > I thought the master Jang mentioned on the website had left the IHF a couple > of years ago. (after Myung Jae Nam's death?) Was this Master Jang a student of the IHF's Master Myung Jae Nam? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "howard.spivey" To: Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 12:50:45 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] "taking up drajj" Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net bruce, an interesting point about the connection between hapkido and daito ryu. as for why people don't just find a good daito ryu dojo and train there, i'd suggest that the main reason is simple: there are very few true daito ryu dojo in the US. from what i can tell from what seem to be reliable sources (for example, aiki news / aiki journal, the website of katsuyuki kondo's daito ryu organization in japan), daito ryu has suffered maybe even more than hapkido from people hihacking its name and opening schools that teach, at best, a watered-down version of the art. and, just as happened in hapkido, when the last sole head of the art (tokimune takeda, son of sokaku takeda) passed away, several individuals claimed to be the heir to the art, even though kondo is apparently the legitimate head of the art today in japan. --__--__-- Message: 13 Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 11:04:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Belts. Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I know other masters who don't have a stripe at all on their belts (like our own Master Charles Richards). Hello Master Mac! For the list Moja Kwan honors the concept of Ne Kong Weh Yu by using the Red embroidery for 4th Dan+, but the JKD simplicity of "no extra bells and whistles" Additionally, my current Kwan Jang Nim West does not use any stripes... Shin's Red and White Blocks is his (His org's) version of 8th Dan with Red and Black Blocks for 9th Dan (as published in the Dan Manual, but yet to be awarded). These are Japanese-ish much like JJ Kim's Blue on one side and red on the other. FWIW some Okinawan styles use this belt at 5th dan tied with the black out to represent Master and flipped at (I think) 7th Dan to Red out to represent Grandmaster (aka Dilman). Looks like JJ Kim is honoring his roots, neh? Also FWIW, I had a GoJu Ni (E) Dan transfer who had a normal width Midnight Blue belt with no embroidery on it To finish, WTSDA also uses two red stripes for 6th and 7th Dan. My last count had less than 20 people ever promoted to those ranks and less than 12 active - Master Dunn, it might be interesting to post a list to to the list...D. Kahlid (7th - left), Dr. William R. Strong (6th - WTSDA), Dr. Beaudin (7th-WTSDA), Steve Chamblis (6th -WTSDA). I know there are some new 6th Dan's? So, yes it varies with org. I would say at 4th Dan and up nobody would be surprised with a central red stripe in a Midnight or Black Belt. Of course, if you use trim, the trim should match. Midnight Trimed DoBohks are almost a custom item unless you know Melinda real well :-) Yours in Jung Do, Charles Richards www.mojakwan.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ --__--__-- Message: 14 Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 12:50:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Bert Edens To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Public Perception of Hapkido Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Greetings, all... As part of the discussion about Hapkido being a "complete art" or just a "tag-along" art, I submit the following... Part of the problem is certainly public perception. This article at: http://www.starnewspapers.com/star/spsports/smix/082sx1.htm doesn't help... It includes the blurb, when describing various arts: "Hapkido — This particular format is actually a blending of Judo and Tae Kwon Do. Movements incorporate a lot of wrist and elbow action." I'll leave it to the crowd here to comment on that definition... :) <> - Bert Edens Springdale, Arkansas __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ --__--__-- Message: 15 Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 12:53:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Bert Edens To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Public Perception, continued... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Greetings, all... My apologies for the bad form in a follow-up post, but I thought the whole article lacked a lot accuracy, and not just in the definition of the arts... Hapkido isn't the only one mis-defined... <> - Bert Edens Springdale, AR __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ --__--__-- Message: 16 From: "Master Allen" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: IHF Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 16:46:23 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In Korea, the lineages are listed like this. Let's say I directly taught "tom" and "peter". Peter started before tom and received his teaching certificate before tom did. Tom would be listed as Peter's student even though Tom studied directly under me. It is how it goes. Look at the WHOLE name. Is is Jang, Young-Shil?? Master Jeff Allen Chief Instructor President-American Headquarters www.hapkiyoosool.com www.intlhapkido.com International Hapkido Federation ----- Original Message ----- From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 12:37 PM Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: IHF > > Is this the same International Hapkido Federation in Korea that does Hankido > > as well as Hapkido? > > > > It appears to be different, yet the above IHF site claims to be the only > > Korean goverment recognized IHF. > > > > The IHF at www.hapkido.or.kr is also recognized by the Korean goverment. > > I thought the master Jang mentioned on the website had left the IHF a couple > of years ago. (after Myung Jae Nam's death?) Was this Master Jang a student of the IHF's Master Myung Jae Nam? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest