Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 13:05:06 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #192 - 16 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Recommended Knife Training? (Martin Diggins) 2. KMA movies (A. Boyd) 3. re: "style bouncing" in karate and hapkido (SPIVEY JR) 4. Rank (Michael D'Aloia) 5. re: dahn jun ki bup (SPIVEY JR) 6. knives again (Charles Richards) 7. Lady Kung Fu (michael tomlinson) 8. RE: 10th Dan ? (fwd) (Ray Terry) 9. Re: Recommended Knife Training? (Ray Terry) 10. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Knife_Fighting_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 11. Re: Recommended Knife Training? (Stickfighter87@aol.com) 12. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Movies?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 13. ITF Open Letter (Ray Terry) 14. Re: Re: Knife Fighting (Master Allen) 15. search request (J R Hilland) 16. Re: skip dan (ChunjiDo@aol.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Martin Diggins" To: Cc: Subject: [The_Dojang] Recommended Knife Training? Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:55:02 +0100 Organization: Codico Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jim, Have a look at our small website HYPERLINK "http://www.hapkido.ie"www.hapkido.ie under the "other martial arts" section - I have compiled some lists that might be of interest to you in relation to edged weapon defence. Regards, Martin -- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 7.0.230 / Virus Database: 262.6.5 - Release Date: 31/03/2004 --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 07:17:32 -0400 (EDT) From: "A. Boyd" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] KMA movies Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Korea has a very healthy film industry but martial arts are not of much interest to the general population. For the past few years gangster films, both dramatic and comedic, have been made en masse and most of these have great choreographed violence. Out and out historical martial arts movies, such as the incredible Mu Sa, fail in the box office beyond all reason. Counter-balancing that is the occasional kick fight on a soap or dramatic series. For realistic, weapons-based MA I can't recommend Mu Sa highly enough. For the wire-style fantasy MA approach Bi Chun Mu is well worth the watch. In the realm of comedy, My Wife is a Gangster is excellent. One fantastic element of Korean film is how natural it can be. Eating, sleeping, fighting, driving, and other less savory parts of daily life all have their natural place. MA crop up in the most unexpected places. ===== Anthony Boyd: Swordsman and English Teacher www.stormpages.com/haidonggumdo ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 05:21:13 -0700 (PDT) From: SPIVEY JR To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] re: "style bouncing" in karate and hapkido Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net bruce, an interesting comparison of this aspect of these 2 arts... could i suggest that style-bouncing is more frequent in hapkido because nearly all (or maybe even all, i'm not sure) of the current styles of hapkido can trace their origins back to choi young sool's art. karate, on the other hand, has had numerous styles for much longer. yes, funakoshi popularized the art in japan, but there were various okinawan styles before he came along. i can't recall ever seeing any info that traces most of the major karate styles back to a single original style... just a little food for thought. regards, howard --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Michael D'Aloia" Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 08:59:38 -0400 (EDT) To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Rank Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net We seem to have gone round and round with this rank issue. Many have spoken their thoughts/beliefs about high ranks, who claims this and that, etc. Due to politics and stubborness it mostly likely will not be resolved. It is up to an individual to decide what is best for him/her. In the grand scheme of things, the proof is in the pudding. Technique talks and b.s. walks! Yes, when one comes on the mat and demonstrates their technique, one's ability will speak for itself! Practice hard! Master Michael D'Aloia www.jungkihapkidoamerica.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 06:18:45 -0700 (PDT) From: SPIVEY JR To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] re: dahn jun ki bup Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net kevin, yes, that sounds about right... dan jun (aka tanjon or danjon) is the same thing the japanese call tanden in zen and their martial arts... it's the center of your energy, said to be located a couple of inches below your navel. you've probably run across teachers who say you should project your energy from there when executing technique... regards, howard --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 07:20:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] knives again Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jim McHie Jr. posted "We do a small amount of knife defenses/disarms in our class. I would call my instructor adequate, but not expert, in this particular of our training. In part due to some of the things on here I have read about how inadequate that might be against someone who knows how to handle a knife, I thought I would ask what people on the list might recommend by way of knife training. For this purpose I am not specifically interested in what nationality the training is, just that it will serve to augment that part of my self defense repertoire. Is it something that can be improved through self-study and training with a partner, or should I look for a seminar in the greater Chicagoland area, or do I really have to find a skilled isntructor to work with for an extended period of time? Any advice in this area is greatly appreciated." Dear Jim, List moderator Master Ray Terry does some excellent work at the Jackson seminar and I was lucky enough to catch him changing flights in Atlanta on the way to his mother's for our September seminar once. IMHO, I would look for an escrima/Kahli that teaches stick, stick and knife and knife (usually in a progression). I'd also look for a school that moves into the realm of aluminum practice blades and goggles sparring. There are a couple of threads on this in the archives. Yours in jung do, Charles Richards www.mojakwan.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 14:38:30 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Lady Kung Fu Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net One of my fondest memories in Hapkido is after a day of training with Doju Nim Ji at Master Rick Nabors Dojang,, we went back to Master Nabors house and enjoyed a Korean Feast cooked by Master Nabors wife,, after dinner a few of us sat in the living room and watched Lady Kung Fu while Doju Nim Ji talked about different parts of the movie and told us all about the people in the movie!!! Guys you can't even put a price on something like that,, it was awesome and I'll never forget that day,, and neither will the people that were there I'm sure.... Michael Tomlinson _________________________________________________________________ Check out MSN PC Safety & Security to help ensure your PC is protected and safe. http://specials.msn.com/msn/security.asp --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 07:47:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: 10th Dan ? (fwd) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net just fyi... I checked with the KHF to see if anyone had been promoted to 10th Dan in their organization. The following is the reply I received from Master Bae. "Thank you for your mail. I'm doing good. Frankly speaking, there is no one who holds 10th Dan in the KHF except one master. He is Master Yong-Jin Kim, ex-Secretary General of the KHF. He passed away 4 years ago, and after his death he was honored to 10th Dan by all Hapkido people. So that means in the KHF the 9th Dan is the highest rank. ... " I was honored to meet Master KIM Yong-jin a couple years prior to his passing. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Recommended Knife Training? To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 08:09:52 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > ask what people on the list might recommend by way of knife training. For > this purpose I am not specifically interested in what nationality the training > is, just that it will serve to augment that part of my self defense > repertoire. Is it something that can be improved through self-study and > training with a partner, or should I look for a seminar in the greater > Chicagoland area, or do I really have to find a skilled isntructor to work > with for an extended period of time? Check out eskrima, aka kali aka arnis, different names for a similar Filipino art. Nate Defensor is one instructor in Chiagoland. You might also check the Filipino side of martialartsresource.com for more info on Eskrima. There is also the eskrima/fma digest, see attached. Ray ========================================================================== Do you practice Eskrima, Escrima, Kali, Arnis, Eskrido, Dumog or some other Filipino martial art? Then join the Filipino martial arts e-mail forum, the premier internet discussion forum devoted to the FMAs. The Eskrima list is a 1,900 member e-mail distribution forum for the respectful discussion of the Filipino martial arts... for those wheresoever dispersed around the globe. 10 years of continuous operation. The list is managed by "Mailman". To subscribe to the Eskrima list go to: http://eskrima-fma.net -aka- http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Brought to you by http://MartialArtsResource.com and Sudlud Eskrima Mabuhay ang eskrima! --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 09:36:33 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Knife_Fighting_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Jim: "......We do a small amount of knife defenses/disarms in our class. I would call my instructor adequate, but not expert, in this particular of our training. In part due to some of the things on here I have read about how inadequate that might be against someone who knows how to handle a knife, I thought I would ask what people on the list might recommend by way of knife training...." Traditional Korean MA is not real heavy on knife defense and is even less so on knife offense. The Phillipine arts seem to do the best at knife offense and defense and I understand that the Indonesian arts are right up there at the top as well. If you were looking for something a bit less associated with a nationality, COLD STEEL has had some well-recommended knife courses in the past. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Stickfighter87@aol.com Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:34:32 EDT Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Recommended Knife Training? To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Check out the Sayoc Kali as seen in the movie w/ Tommy Lee Jones/Benecio del Torro " THE HUNTED" Other forms of good knife defense is Pekiti Tirsia / Dekiti Tirsia Kali, Serrada Eskrima, Espada Y Daga Eskrima........ I'd say the Philippine Fighting Systems has some of the best knife work... --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 09:47:34 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Movies?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Ray: ".....Have you ever seen the 1973 movie "Hapkido", aka "Lady KungFu"? Don't ask me how they came up with two such different names. ......" I still have my copy of "MUSA - The Warrior" and can recommend it as a decent MA/action flick. In some way it reminds me a bit of UNFORGIVEN with Clint Eastwood in that I think about a fifth of it could have been trimmed off to move the story along a bit better. I have yet to make it down to Lawrence Avenue in Chicago to roam around the Korean video store there. If the chance comes up I'll share the news about whatever I find. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 13 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 08:57:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] ITF Open Letter Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net International Taekwon-Do Federation Office of the President www.tkd-itf.org E-mail : tran.tq@tkd-itf.org Master Tran Trieu Quan, President AN OPEN LETTER FROM MASTER TRAN TRIEU QUAN, ITF PRESIDENT TO ALL AMERICAN TAE KWON DO GRAND MASTERS, MASTERS, AND INSTRUCTORS REGARDING ITF-USA inc. (A NEW NATIONAL ASSOCIATION RECOGNIZED BY THE ITF) Dear Grand Masters, Masters and Instructors, When ITF was created in 1966, the U.S.A. was one of the nine founding country-members. In 1977, the 2nd ITF World Taekwon-Do championship was held in Oklahoma. Because it is an important power on so many levels, the U.S.A. should be one of the leading countries in ITF now as well. There are two million Tae Kwon Do practitioners in the U.S.A., and more than 80% of them are not affiliated with either ITF or WTF. The USA is very important for the ITF. This is why the First Open World Cup of Taekwon-Do, sanctioned by the ITF, will take place in Orlando at the Disney World Sport Complex, November 19 -21, 2004. In the past, USTF was recognized by ITF as an national affiliated organization. However, in 2002, Grand Master Charles E. Sereff of USTF wrote to ITF Acting President, Mr. Russell MacLellan, to inform him that USTF was withdrawing from membership in the ITF. After my election as President of ITF in June 2003, I contacted Grand Master Sereff and suggested that USTF and ITF cooperate to further the development of Taekwon-Do in the U.S.A., but without success. Since then, I have tried to be patient, hoping that the rift could be healed. Apparently, Grand Master Sereff is not interested in renewing his affiliation with ITF, and we have to respect his choice. Nevertheless, many of the USTF members whom I have met the last several months or who have communicated recently with me, tell me they want to be able to obtain ITF Black Belt certificates (which USTF cannot issue) and they are also interested in the services now offered by the ITF, notably international events such as World Championships, Panam Games, International Instructors Courses and other seminars or conferences. KATU was formed by Korean Taekwon-Do Masters in the U.S.A. who found it difficult to work within USTF, and General Choi allowed it to become affiliated with ITF. Grand Master Hwang Kwang Sung is president of KATU. Because he supported Mr. Chang Ung who acted in violation of the ITF Constitution, he was expelled from the ITF at the Congress Meeting in Warsaw in June 2003. I believe that many members of KATU are interested in the benefits of ITF membership. Several months ago during an interview, Mr. Mike Anderson, Editor in Chief of Martial Arts Digest and a practitioner of Tae Kwon Do for more than 35 years, told me that many American Tae Kwon Do schools have chosen to be independent because of political problems or because of a lack of services offered by the international Tae Kwon Do organization they were affiliated with. They are looking for a suitable international organization - a sweet home - that offers fairness, transparency in administration, and well-organized activities, all of which the modernized ITF can guarantee. Last year, ITF proceeded with the legal incorporation of ITF-USA Inc. in the State of Texas with possibilty of expanding its operations to the whole country. This has been done, and now we are making arrangements for the first meeting of this new organization, to be held in Philadelphia on May 16th from 11 am to 1 pm. I will be present at the meeting and look forward to having this opportunity to explain the orientations of the ITF. I will describe the progress we have made so far and our plans for the future, and answer questions. This meeting will also include the creation of a working group for the start-up period. Its mandate will be to put in place the structure to govern ITF-USA Inc. and the procedure to elect a Board of Directors, in addition to promoting the new organization. ITF-USA Inc. will be the official national ITF-recognized association for the U.S.A. This new democratic organization will work for its members and with its members in accordance with the ITF Constitution, By-Laws, Rules and Policies. ITF-USA Inc. will encourage the democratic governance of organizations, work to enlarge its jurisdiction, and will offer enhanced support for both the technical aspects of Taekwon-Do and for business development to the local organizations, rather than centralizing all activities in the national organization. I believe that, by using this approach, the ITF-USA Inc. will grow very quickly and will prove beneficial for its individual members particularity for you Grand Masters, Masters and Instructors who have been devoted for Tae Kwon Do for many years. I encourage all Black Belts (1st degree and higher) who are members of USTF, KATU or of other American Tae Kwon Do orgnizations to attend the founding meeting of ITF-USA Inc. This is your opportunity to become actively involved in this new organization right from its beginning. However, to facilitate the planning of the meeting, I would very much appreciate being informed in advance about your interest in attending. Accordingly, would you be kind enough to complete the Declaration of Interest Form. When I receive it, I will send you a formal invitation to attend this historic meeting. Please note also that your Junior Black Belt members from 13 to 17 years are invited to attend the national team trial for the ITF Junior World Championship to be held next July in Ricionne, Italy. The team trial will be held in Philadelphia on the same weekend - Friday, May 14, 2004, starting at 6 pm. For further information, you may contact Mr. Ruben Suarez at (718) 639-6998 or queenstkd@juno.com. The ITF is an international non-profit organization; it is democratic and completely non-political. Our ITF organization and the members of the Executive Committee of the current Board of Directors are legally registered in Vienna, Austria. Its operation is based on fundamental values and principles and on the traditions of Tae Kwon Do. Our goal is to provide the services our members need and want. Since the election of the new ITF team last June, we have put in place the structure and the tools we need to operate a modern, efficient organization. The ITF Constitution, B! y-Law No. 1, Rules and Policies all reflect the moral values of Taekwon-Do. By using those tools, we will ensure consistency and fairness to all members. Each member of the ITF Board of Directors and the Chairs of the Standing Committees has a specific role to play; we have carefully defined the responsibilities of each one. Objectives have been set and action plans put in place to realize those objectives. I invite you to visit our official Web site at www.tkd-itf.org to learn more about the ITF. Our site contains a wealth of information about the services provided to ITF members. Find out about our plans for the future by reading my speech to the ITF Congress meeting in Warsaw and my interview with the magazine "Tae Kwon Do Times." You will find them in the ARCHIVES section. And you can sign up for ITF Flash News, an e-mail message that will let you know when there is something new on the site. Looking forward to hearing from you soon, Master Tran Trieu Quan Black belt 8th degree President International Taekwon-Do Federation Email: tran.tq@tkd-itf.org --__--__-- Message: 14 From: "Master Allen" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Knife Fighting Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:50:34 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "Traditional Korean MA is not real heavy on knife defense and is even less so on knife offense. " I don't know about that. I learned A LOT of knife usage and defense. Master Jeff Allen Chief Instructor President-American Headquarters www.hapkiyoosool.com www.intlhapkido.com International Hapkido Federation ----- Original Message ----- From: bsims@midwesthapkido.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sent: Friday, April 16, 2004 10:36 AM Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Knife Fighting Dear Jim: "......We do a small amount of knife defenses/disarms in our class. I would call my instructor adequate, but not expert, in this particular of our training. In part due to some of the things on here I have read about how inadequate that might be against someone who knows how to handle a knife, I thought I would ask what people on the list might recommend by way of knife training...." Traditional Korean MA is not real heavy on knife defense and is even less so on knife offense. The Phillipine arts seem to do the best at knife offense and defense and I understand that the Indonesian arts are right up there at the top as well. If you were looking for something a bit less associated with a nationality, COLD STEEL has had some well-recommended knife courses in the past. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 15 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 12:52:21 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] search request Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I am looking for a good MA school in the north side of Tulsa. For my teenage 2nd cousin. Don't care what MA they practice, just that they have a GOOD instructor and a good program (no contracts or joining fees). Any help contact me privately at hapkido@ideaone.net. Thanks. Jere R. Hilland www.rrhapkido.com www.HapkidoSelfDefense.com --__--__-- Message: 16 From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 14:34:23 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: skip dan Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net tkdsid wrote: "Skip dan procedures- As if there isn't enough nonsense in taekwondo...as if there aren't enough people that left Korea 2nd dan and left the airplane 5th dan...as if there isn't enough corruption at hte highest levels; We can now skip a dan??????????????? I just made 2nd dan. Can I skip to 9th dan?" although i'm certain there is abuse of the skip dan policy, i've known it to be used in cases of people getting screwed by a bad instructor. take the example of a guy who'd trained since he was 7 in taekwondo. won local and national level tournaments. even lived in his master's home as his informally adopted son. the master never got the guy kkw certification. kept promising him and promising him. the master was afraid the student would leave and go out on his own to teach so the master never got the certification for the student. the student taught in his master's school for years, but finally left. the student can prove years of study, competition records, years of giving instruction,etc. would it be abuse of the policy to skip dan for that guy? i dont think so. just another angle for you to consider. take care, melinda Chajonshim Martial Arts Academy www.cjmaa.com 1.573.673.2769 Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply www.cjmas.com 1.877.847.4072 --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest