Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:30:06 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #193 - 17 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Today's Topics: 1. school in orlando florida (Richard Tomlinson) 2. Re: school in orlando florida (tkdtom) 3. Kill Bill 2-stinks (michael tomlinson) 4. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Style_Bouncing?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 5. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_10th_Dan?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 6. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Korean_Knife_Stuff?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 7. Re: Recommended Knife Training? (J Hazen) 8. 10-12 techniques (jeffrey kiral) 9. Taekwon-Do by Choi Hong Hi (Matthew Clement) 10. Re: Re: Knife Fighting (Ray Terry) 11. Re: Re: Korean Knife Stuff (Master Allen) 12. RE: school in orlando florida (John Johnson) 13. Knife stuff (Ray Terry) 14. Re: Kill Bill 2-stinks (Ray Terry) 15. Re: Taekwon-Do by Choi Hong Hi (Ray Terry) 16. Re: 10th Dan (Ray Terry) 17. RE: Knife stuff (Rick Clark) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Richard Tomlinson" To: Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 16:12:03 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] school in orlando florida Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi folks, I have an adult student who will be moving to the Orlando area and wishes to continue training in ITF TaeKwon Do, does anyone know of any schools? Or even Hapkido? She would be willing if she had to to switch over and start new eventhough she has just recieved her brown belt. My main concern is that she ends up in a school of quality and good reputation . Since you folks in the Dojang Digest are definately quality orintated I would trust any suggestions given Thanks! sandy --__--__-- Message: 2 From: tkdtom To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] school in orlando florida Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 16:56:36 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Although not an ITF school you can check out: www.geocities.com/uscdka/tkd.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Tomlinson" To: Sent: Friday, April 16, 2004 4:12 PM Subject: [The_Dojang] school in orlando florida > Hi folks, I have an adult student who will be moving to the Orlando area and > wishes to continue training in ITF TaeKwon Do, does anyone know of any > schools? Or even Hapkido? She would be willing if she had to to switch over > and start new eventhough she has just recieved her brown belt. My main concern > is that she ends up in a school of quality and good reputation . Since you > folks in the Dojang Digest are definately quality orintated I would trust any > suggestions given Thanks! sandy > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 21:17:10 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Kill Bill 2-stinks Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Just got back from the first showing of Kill Bill Vol. 2.... I was totally dissapointed, the first episode is awesome,, the second one is very long winded with very little martial arts scenes... basically sucked IMHO,,, I give the first one two thumbs up and the second one one middle finger up!!! Michael Tomlinson _________________________________________________________________ Watch LIVE baseball games on your computer with MLB.TV, included with MSN Premium! http://join.msn.com/?page=features/mlb&pgmarket=en-us/go/onm00200439ave/direct/01/ --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 16:00:57 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Style_Bouncing?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Howard: ".....could i suggest that style-bouncing is more frequent in hapkido because nearly all (or maybe even all, i'm not sure) of the current styles of hapkido can trace their origins back to choi young sool's art. karate, on the other hand, has had numerous styles for much longer. yes, funakoshi popularized the art in japan, but there were various okinawan styles before he came along. i can't recall ever seeing any info that traces most of the major karate styles back to a single original style......." I think thats why I used the particular metaphor that I did. It seems, to me anyway, that if someone were going to bounce from rank to rank they would do it from outside of the art. By this I mean that a person with say, a TSD background, might try to make a case for getting rank in Hapkido. This could be done by excusing their technique (or lack of it) by saying that "we do the technique a little different in TSD". On the other hand. If someone were within the art, it seems that it would be harder to pull-off jumping among ranks because though there is variance, techniques are generally accomplished within limits of particular biomechanics. My point was that even with variance from style to style to excuse it, in Karate I don't hear of that much bouncing from group to group gathering rank. In Hapkido however, it seems like people do it with impunity. Thoughts? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 16:08:59 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_10th_Dan?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Ray: "...."Thank you for your mail. I'm doing good. Frankly speaking, there is no one who holds 10th Dan in the KHF except one master. He is Master Yong-Jin Kim, ex-Secretary General of the KHF. He passed away 4 years ago, and after his death he was honored to 10th Dan by all Hapkido people. So that means in the KHF the 9th Dan is the highest rank. ... "...." That seems to bring us full-circle to the idea of 10th dan being reserved to a posthumous recognition award at least as far as the KHF. Now, considering that the KHF has, under its umbrella, a number of kwan this raises an interesting question. If each leader of a kwan COULD reserve a 10th dan to themselves because they are head of the kwan, but apparently choose not to in deference to other kwans, or the organization, what might this tell us about the actual role of 10th dan within the context of KMA? To me this seems to make an arguement for this being a contrivance of greater emphasis in the West albeit promoted primarily by Korean emigre'. Thoughts? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 16:24:19 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Korean_Knife_Stuff?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Jeff: "....."Traditional Korean MA is not real heavy on knife defense and is even less so on knife offense. " I don't know about that. I learned A LOT of knife usage and defense...." This is a toughy because its hard to determine where people have added to the original Korean curriculum. As I have said a number of times before there are just not that many people who train in traditional Korean knife. Originally traditional Korean knife was essentially what we call "woodcraft". When it came to combat the emphasis was very much on what to do if somebody attacked you with a knife. This leaves a hole where the use of offensive knife material is involved. Now, thats not to say that one cannot research the twin swords material in the MYTBTJ (Book Three -- Sang Gum) and tease out material there. Its intersting to note how similar some of this material is to the twim Butterfly knives of some Chinese traditions, but maybe thats just me seeing what I want to see, yes? One thing I WILL say is that its not a little funny to me to see people trying to do these drills with two full-sized Ye-do (29" blades) when the text identifies the sword as having a 29" blade but weighing only 10 ozs! Further comments from another source specify a blade some 18 inches ("one foot six inches") in length and an inch wide. At any rate these are still identified as swords ("guem") and not knives which sorta brings us back to my original thought. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:41:13 -0700 (PDT) From: J Hazen To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Recommended Knife Training? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Stickfighter87@aol.com wrote: : Other forms of good knife defense is Pekiti Tirsia / Dekiti Tirsia : Kali, Serrada Eskrima, Espada Y Daga Eskrima........ I'll second those. Serrada (in my opinion) especially so, because the range it's taught in makes it obvious that it focuses on the range in which you'd need to worry about a knife, and less on large sticks, machete, etc. Not that I've practiced the others mentioned above, but I can personally attest to Serrada being a great foundation for knife tactics. Just my $.02 worth. (: --jeff "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." -- Saul Bellow --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "jeffrey kiral" To: Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:48:48 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] 10-12 techniques Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net not too long ago, the topic of having 10-12 techniques to be able to defend agianst any attack was brought about and only slightly debated. i must admit that i thought it might be b.s. at first, until i went to HKD class last night. my master was showing our highest ranking student teaching method and why technique is taught a certain way when he preceded to show us that many techniques can be done from any type of attack...more specifically, the 1/4-turn wristlock takedown was the one we worked with last night. after being on the recieving end as uke for 45 minutes, i am a believer! its just a matter of realizing how to get into the technique, even from seemingly difficult angles of attack like a rear hair grab or a grab of both wrists from behind. any thoughts? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Master Allen" To: Sent: Friday, April 16, 2004 9:50 AM Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Knife Fighting > "Traditional Korean MA is not real heavy on knife defense and is even less > so on knife offense. " > > I don't know about that. I learned A LOT of knife usage and defense. > > > Master Jeff Allen > Chief Instructor > President-American Headquarters --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 14:53:59 -0700 From: Matthew Clement To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Taekwon-Do by Choi Hong Hi Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello, My name is Matthew Clement I'm new to this so bare with me..I was given a green hard cover book the cover has Korean writing on the top in the middle is a stamped fist and at the bottom it says Taekwon-Do..the author is Choi Hong Hi it was published by DAEHA Publication Company: Seoul, Korea in 1965..I looked on Ebay for the value of this book but I could only find other versions printed later..if anyone knows the value of this book could you please get back to me..I'm in no way thinking of selling it I would just like to find out the value of it. Matt :) --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Knife Fighting To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 16:32:21 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > "Traditional Korean MA is not real heavy on knife defense and is even less > so on knife offense. " > > I don't know about that. I learned A LOT of knife usage and defense. HKD does have a significant amount of knife training, but since it is an adjunct to the primary stuff practiced it doesn't compare to the FMAs. That is about all they do, edged weapons and sticks. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Master Allen" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Korean Knife Stuff Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 20:04:13 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net DRJJ is basically what we practice in Korea under Grandmaster Chang, Young-Sil. We go to the Japanese Daito-Ryu headquarters a few times a year and practice with them. Same there. Many knife usages in upper ranks. Not so much in the lower though. Usually after 3 Dan. Master Jeff Allen Chief Instructor President-American Headquarters www.hapkiyoosool.com www.intlhapkido.com International Hapkido Federation ----- Original Message ----- From: bsims@midwesthapkido.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sent: Friday, April 16, 2004 5:24 PM Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Korean Knife Stuff Dear Jeff: "....."Traditional Korean MA is not real heavy on knife defense and is even less so on knife offense. " I don't know about that. I learned A LOT of knife usage and defense...." This is a toughy because its hard to determine where people have added to the original Korean curriculum. As I have said a number of times before there are just not that many people who train in traditional Korean knife. Originally traditional Korean knife was essentially what we call "woodcraft". When it came to combat the emphasis was very much on what to do if somebody attacked you with a knife. This leaves a hole where the use of offensive knife material is involved. Now, thats not to say that one cannot research the twin swords material in the MYTBTJ (Book Three -- Sang Gum) and tease out material there. Its intersting to note how similar some of this material is to the twim Butterfly knives of some Chinese traditions, but maybe thats just me seeing what I want to see, yes? One thing I WILL say is that its not a little funny to me to see people trying to do these drills with two full-sized Ye-do (29" blades) when the text identifies the sword as having a 29" blade but weighing only 10 ozs! Further comments from another source specify a blade some 18 inches ("one foot six inches") in length and an inch wide. At any rate these are still identified as swords ("guem") and not knives which sorta brings us back to my original thought. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "John Johnson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] school in orlando florida Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 01:03:58 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sandy, If your student is interested in Hapkido, I strongly recommend her to visit Master Fabian Duque in Ocala, Florida, which is just a short drive outside Orlando I believe. Master Duque has earned the respect of Hapkido masters in America and Korea for his knowledge, devotion, and honesty. Also, later this year he is hosting the KHF Master Seminar and Rank Test, which will be attended by the KHF President OH, Se Lim and some of the top Hapkido masters from Korea, America, and Central America. You may contact Master Duque via his email address hapkiduquemaster@earthlink.net or by calling him at (352) 687-8600. Please see his Web site address at www.hapkidokoreainternational.com to learn more about him. Sincerely, John A. Johnson International Relations Director KHF IT Team >From: "Richard Tomlinson" >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: >Subject: [The_Dojang] school in orlando florida >Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 16:12:03 -0400 > >Hi folks, I have an adult student who will be moving to the Orlando area >and >wishes to continue training in ITF TaeKwon Do, does anyone know of any >schools? Or even Hapkido? She would be willing if she had to to switch over >and start new eventhough she has just recieved her brown belt. My main >concern >is that she ends up in a school of quality and good reputation . Since you >folks in the Dojang Digest are definately quality orintated I would trust >any >suggestions given Thanks! sandy >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang _________________________________________________________________ Watch LIVE baseball games on your computer with MLB.TV, included with MSN Premium! http://join.msn.com/?page=features/mlb&pgmarket=en-us/go/onm00200439ave/direct/01/ --__--__-- Message: 13 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:34:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Knife stuff Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net When learning Hapkido's knife defenses from Gm Ji I inquired as to their nature. i.e. against a well trained knife person they just aren't all that effective. He agreed, indicating that they were for defense against 'gangsters'. To him that means a street punk with no significant knife training. They work well against an over committed attack/thrust. However a knife person isn't likely to attack in that fashion. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 14 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Kill Bill 2-stinks To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:35:56 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Just got back from the first showing of Kill Bill Vol. 2.... I was totally > dissapointed, the first episode is awesome,, the second one is very long > winded with very little martial arts scenes... basically sucked IMHO,,, I > give the first one two thumbs up and the second one one middle finger up!!! But how did Uma look? :) Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 15 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Taekwon-Do by Choi Hong Hi To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:40:34 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > My name is Matthew Clement I'm new to this so bare with me..I was given a green hard cover book the cover has Korean writing on the top in the middle is a stamped fist and at the bottom it says Taekwon-Do..the author is Choi Hong Hi it was published by DAEHA Publication Company: Seoul, Korea in 1965..I looked on Ebay for the value of this book but I could only find other versions printed later..if anyone knows the value of this book could you please get back to me..I'm in no way thinking of selling it I would just like to find out the value of it. > > Matt :) Try www.abebooks.com. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 16 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] 10th Dan To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 18:48:38 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > FWIW, Hwang Kee promoted his son Hwang, H.C. to 10th Dan I believe > after the many "split-off" TSD orgs showed up with 9th Dan GM's. I'm > not sure what Kim, Jae Jhoon was ranked when he left GM Hwang, but he > is now 10th Dan. I think they are the only two in Tang Soo Do (for > now). Do you recall about what year Gm Hwang was promoted to 10th? Just curious. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 17 From: "Rick Clark" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Knife stuff Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 21:04:51 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >From my experience with Modern Arnis (Remy Presas) the best martial art to learn knife defense is defiantly Arnis, Escrima, it has been mentioned that Indonesian arts are good as well - but I have no experience with them. >From that experience I would have to agree 100% with the sentiment Ray is voicing here. My opinion is that even a well trained martial artist will be at a serious disadvantage against an individual who has experience in knife fighting. If they are a trained individual in Arnis for example your best knife defense would be a gun from a bit of a distance :-) Rick Clark www.ao-denkou-kai.org > From: Ray Terry [mailto:rterry@idiom.com] > When learning Hapkido's knife defenses from Gm Ji I inquired as to their > nature. i.e. against a well trained knife person they just aren't all > that effective. He agreed, indicating that they were for defense against > 'gangsters'. To him that means a street punk with no significant knife > training. > > They work well against an over committed attack/thrust. However a knife > person isn't likely to attack in that fashion. > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest