Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 03:01:48 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #196 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Dahn Jun Ki Bup (Burdick, Dakin R) 2. short weapons (J R Hilland) 3. Hapkido - the original Korean curriculum (Burdick, Dakin R) 4. Re: KHF Ranking.... (Ray Terry) 5. website on North Korea (Ray Terry) 6. TKD Times (ABurrese@aol.com) 7. Re: skip dan - melissa (ChunjiDo@aol.com) 8. "that technique does not work" (SPIVEY JR) 9. Re: "that technique does not work" (Ray Terry) 10. Re: Hapkido - the original Korean curriculum (Jye nigma) 11. Re: "that technique does not work" (jeffrey kiral) 12. Re: "that technique does not work" (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 09:42:08 -0500 From: "Burdick, Dakin R" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Dahn Jun Ki Bup Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Kevin, Danjeon kibeop, I think, in McCune Reischauer romanization. Danjeon = tanden (Japanese) = cinnabar field. It is the region 1-3 inches under the navel. kibeop = ki (energy, breathing, etc) technique/way = ki method So it sounds like this is danjeon breathing exercises, right? Traditional part of hapkido, although we dropped them about 15 years back because of the danger to heart. This has been discussed here before, but here goes. They were isometric exercises and in our version (taught by Don Burns, who learned from Ki-Duk Lee), we were taught to breath out under pressure as we made a eum (yang or expanding) movement, then suck the air quickly in as we made a fast yin (collapsing) movement. The pressure we were generating increased pressure on the heart (because of pressure in lungs and muscles) and could conceivably contribute to heart failure in those with weak hearts or in older practitioners. So we stopped. Others do different danjeon breathing exercises. Long story short - remember to breath out to relieve pressure (no build it) when doing these exercises. Take care, Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:02:36 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] short weapons Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Only in the past few 5 years or so have I been exposed to the FMA with knife work by Master Ray Terry and stick work by Master Rich Hodder in Jackson. I must state that the FMA have a very good handle on short weapons work (pun intended). For the past 30 years I have studied these weapons in a defensive manner as is customary in hapkido. If you get a chance to study either of these weapons in the FMA, you will not be disappointed. The whole idea is to learn something new, right? I have, and I enjoy it. They will put a weapon in each of your hand and one in each of your partners. The defensive position sort of gets thrown out the window as you learn techniques from both offensive and defensive positions, not just techniques as an unarmed person being attacked by a knife. The whole idea is to spend more time with the weapon, and get more comfortable with it as you get more familiar with it. As Michael stated, the triangular stepping in the FMA, does fit in nicely with hapkido basic motion. Jere R. Hilland www.rrhapkido.com www.HapkidoSelfDefense.com --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 10:02:48 -0500 From: "Burdick, Dakin R" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkido - the original Korean curriculum Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce wrote: This is a toughy because its hard to determine where people have added to the original Korean curriculum. My reply: Bruce has tried to backdate the techniques in hapkido for a number of years, but without much success. There are books that some of us have that go back to the 1960s, and we have photos from that period. We have photos and movies of hapkido by Young-Shul Choi, and his students. So I think we actually have a fair idea of some of the techniques involved. But I think the key is to look at the SPIRIT behind hapkido, rather than the techniques. We'll all said it before -- hapkido is a very mutable style, that has more "borrowed" techniques in it than any other. For me, the key is that hapkido is not about traditional techniques, but rather about pragmatic effectiveness. The hapkido people who kept changing and growing got better and better. Continually testing one's abilities and one's style seems to be core of hapkido. Use what works; put the rest in the back corner in case you change your mind later. Bruce also mentioned "the twin swords material in the MYTBTJ (Book Three -- Sang Gum)," and "how similar some of this material is to the twim Butterfly knives of some Chinese traditions." Bruce, I would say it not just wishful thinking on your part. The Muye tobo tongji was not about Korean techniques but about Chinese techniques. Aside from the small section on Japanese katana (which is described as the best sword technique), everything in there is Chinese. They were the superpower back then. By the way, Matthew Clement has Choi's 1965 tkd book -- Congrats! That's one of my favorite books on the Korean arts! Hang on to that puppy! Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] KHF Ranking.... To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:16:10 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > <<<... Frankly speaking, there is no one who holds 10th Dan in the KHF > except one master. He is Master Yong-Jin Kim, ex-Secretary General of > the KHF. He passed away 4 years ago, and after his death he was honored to > 10th > Dan by all Hapkido people. So that means in the KHF the 9th Dan is the > highest rank. ... " > > Excuse me, but is not Oh Se Lim a 10th Dan (Sip Dan)? I have read that he is. The KHF's message above indicates that he is not a 10th. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 08:37:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] website on North Korea Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Forwarding... I just came across - belatedly; it's been up since February - a newish website on North Korea, which looks very useful. This is NKZone, run by Rebecca Mackinnon, formerly of CNN. It's at: http://nkzone.typepad.com/ This admirably complements existing English-language resources for following events and issues regarding the DPRK - such as PyongyangSquare, Nautilus, and CanKor - which I imagine are known already to most List members who follow North Korea. Besides sending you (if you sign up) daily updates and alerts - today they had photos of Kim Jong-il's limo in Beijing, already - NKZone has a wealth of links to other sites; some of which, again, were new to me (perhaps I'm the last to know). These include: " An occasional diary of expatriate life in Pyongyang, by a German-Dutch couple: http://www.phphosting.nl/zofona/nkverhaal_en.php " Video feeds of DPRK television news, from a Japanese site, www.elufa.net " A long list - albeit far from complete: their name is legion - of new and recent books on North Korea, with links to Amazon; " Assorted "bloggers": all opinionated, some interesting. NKZone classes itself too as a blog, and so encourages feedback and debate, commendably. Among much else on this splendid site, could I also draw attention to an interview with Hazel Smith. On the basis of extensive field visits over the past decade, Professor Smith propounds an original and (in my view) cogent account of the radical social changes affecting daily life in the DPRK since the mid-1990s famine, and their impications. See: http://nkzone.typepad.com/nkzone/2004/02/hazel_smith_a_v.html Amid endless chasing our tails over the nuclear issue, I think we tend to ignore this vital level of grassroots analysis. More sociology, less IR! But of course I'm biased. Best wishes to one and all, AIDAN FOSTER-CARTER Honorary Senior Research Fellow in Sociology & Modern Korea, Leeds University 17 Birklands Road, Shipley, West Yorkshire, BD18 3BY, UK tel: +44(0) 1274 588586 mobile: +44(0) 7970 741307 fax: +44(0) 1274 773663 ISDN: +44(0) 1274 589280 Email: afostercarter@aol.com website: www.aidanfc.net --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 14:14:23 -0400 From: ABurrese@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] TKD Times Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thumbed through the May issue of TKD Times and saw a picture of Rudy and his crew with a little blurb about the icy dip they took. Also mentioned the trip down under to visit Geoff Booth. Great to see some people here get mentioned. Congrats! Alain www.burrese.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 14:30:50 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: skip dan - melissa Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 4/18/2004 6:01:33 PM Central Daylight Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: Anyone that allows temselves to be abused for a long time by a master certainly doesn't deserve promotion due to stupidity. thank you for your kind and understanding response. i'll be sure to pass that along to anyone i meet named melissa. i'm so glad to know someone of your fine caliber and altruistic nature...just bursting with sunshine and daisies. i could compare to other issues where young folks have been abused for a long time by an authority figure and see where one puts blame, but i really dont feel the need to encourage such an obviously infallible individual to continue modeling the difference between ignorance and stupidity. back to the real world, melinda Chajonshim Martial Arts Academy www.cjmaa.com 1.573.673.2769 Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply www.cjmas.com 1.877.847.4072 --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 11:41:58 -0700 (PDT) From: SPIVEY JR To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] "that technique does not work" Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net todd, you noted: "I always hate to hear that does not work after someone has done a technique a few times or even for a few years. This shows lack of patience." i couldn't agree more. to get good enough at traditional hapkido techniques to be able to use them in realistic self-defense situations takes years. not many students have the patience it takes to stick around that long. more and more these days you read this generalization on m.a. forums. i often wonder if it isn't just a rationalization by people who don't have the patience and dedication to become truly proficient in arts like hapkido and traditioanl jujutsu. for example, there is no shortage of forums where people (and not to generalize, but many of them seem to be quite young and into mixed martial arts, particularly ones involving competition matches) make outrageous statements generally to the effect that "all traditional martial arts are crap, wrist locks are completely useless, hapkido and aikido are utterly useless in self-defense", etc. - you can go on and on. i think that somewhere along the lines of a couple of years into training in these traditional arts, you begin to appreciate that it will take years to get really and truly good at this stuff. lord knows, i don't think i'm even close, evne after the time i've put in. but i don't have any serious doubts about their effectiveness in the hands of a truly skilled practitioner. regards, howard --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] "that technique does not work" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 12:28:04 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > "I always hate to hear that does not work after someone has done a technique a few times or even for a few years. This shows lack of patience." > > i couldn't agree more. to get good enough at traditional hapkido techniques to be able to use them in realistic self-defense situations takes years. not many students have the patience it takes to stick around that long. > It takes years? I've heard this said about Aikido, but not Hapkido. It might take a year (assuming a few times a week at class), but not much more. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 13:06:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Hapkido - the original Korean curriculum To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ahhhh....that is my favorite twin weapon. I used to compete with those a while back. *Hey my butterfily swords are beautifully crafted and I haven't seen others the same as mine anywhere. The problem is that the chrome coating on them is damaged. Does anyone know if companies will re-dip weapons? Jye "Burdick, Dakin R" wrote: Bruce also mentioned "the twin swords material in the MYTBTJ (Book Three-- Sang Gum),"and "how similar some of this material is to the twim Butterfly knives of some Chinese traditions." --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25¢ --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "jeffrey kiral" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] "that technique does not work" Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:12:15 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net A year? really? what school do you study at? i guess i am just the slow one...can't believe i didn't have a mastery of Hapkido after my first year! even with training 6 days a week! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Terry" To: Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 12:28 PM Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] "that technique does not work" > > It takes years? I've heard this said about Aikido, but not Hapkido. It > might take a year (assuming a few times a week at class), but not much more. > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 12 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] "that technique does not work" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 20:43:09 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > A year? really? what school do you study at? i guess i am just the slow > one...can't believe i didn't have a mastery of Hapkido after my first year! > even with training 6 days a week! How did "mastery of Hapkido" come into play here?!? Do you really believe one must master the art of Hapkido before it is useful in a self-defense situation? One is typically able to use HKD in self-defense situations well before they have completely mastered the art. Wouldn't you say??? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest