Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:22:05 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #204 - 15 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Master Ween - Louisiana? (masterm1) 2. Koryo (Art VanVranken) 3. Koryo Poomse (David Weller) 4. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_"This_technique_doesn't_work_"?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 5. Koryo Poomse PS (David Weller) 6. Re: Koryo (Ray Terry) 7. This_technique_doesn't_work (Ray Terry) 8. Koryo (Michael Falba) 9. Re: RE: "that technique does not work" (Peter "Nighthawk" Lampasona) 10. RE: This_technique_doesn't_work (kdiwa@optonline.net) 11. Re: Re: "This technique doesn't work " (jeffrey kiral) 12. Ooops I offended someone again (Charles Richards) 13. Re: Ooops I offended someone again (Stickfighter87@aol.com) 14. Starting a Dojang (Wilson, Byron) 15. RE: "that technique does not work" (Stovall, Craig) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "masterm1" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Master Ween - Louisiana? Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 14:09:01 -0300 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi All! This is Probably Master Rick Weems of the American Taekwondo Foundation headquartered in Montgomery Ala. Grandmaster Yun Sun Chung is the founder and Master Weems instructor when I knew him 5 years ago he was a Kukkiwon/Korea Taekwondo Chungdokwan certificated master. He is a good instructor with a solid organization behind him. Kennith Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clint Cayson" To: Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 1:20 PM Subject: [The_Dojang] Master Ween - Louisiana? > Hi All! > > I have a question about who knows Master Ween of ATF? Recently he visited a > school here in Florida and kind of teached an hour to all the kids. With > regards to his abilities, what stripes is he holding because he didn't wear > uniform when teached the kids that time and we kind of guessing. He gave his > brief background that he's been practicing TKD for over 20 years. Your input > is highly appreciated. Thanks. > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Art VanVranken" To: Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 18:31:41 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Koryo Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net That is one of the poomses we use for requirement for 2nd Dan. Our school has three poomses for each Dan. Supposedly our Master follows General Choi's Poomses!! --__--__-- Message: 3 From: David Weller Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:37:22 -0500 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Koryo Poomse Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Berlin, Our school trains the following Poomse, the form shown is the form needed to advance to the corresponding rank. 1st dan Koryo 2nd dan Kuemgang 3rd Dan Taebeck 4th dan Pyongwon 5th dan Sip Jin 6th dan Jitae 7th dan "beats me, I'll never get that far.." We do KKW TKD under Master Joon Yong Kim, Wichita KS. From what little I have seen, poomse seem to change with the wind.. technique and execution depend on the school and the master. Have a groovy day, Dave Weller On Apr 22, 2004, at 3:59 PM, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net wrote: > From: "Calvin Berlin" > To: > Subject: [The_Dojang] Koryo > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > I'd be interested to hear from other TKDers when Koryo is implemented. > Is it > wrong to require more than the minimum guideline? Actually at our > school, > Koryo is the form in testing to receive black belt (JiDoKwan / WTF) > > Pil Sung > > Cal > > >>> Actually he's going to need another month for "Koryo" poomse >>> 8 Taegueks + Koryo >> >> AFAIK, Koryo is not in Kukkiwon requirements for 1st Dan. > > "Right. Amazing how many schools get this wrong (per the Kukkiwon > guidelines). > Koryo is the form for 2nd Dan. > > Ray Terry" --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:38:57 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_"This_technique_doesn't_work_"?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Craig: ".....That's what I'm asking. Or more accurately, why don't you see NHB > fighters incorporating those skill sets? Is Hapkido harder to learn > than Jiujitsu? Let's see...you can get a black belt in Hapkido in > Korea in about a year or two, but after three years in BJJ you're > doing good if you've got two sripes on your blue belt. What am I > missing here? Personally, I'd rather sling a guy around by his wrist > than dry hump him for 30 minutes if I had my druthers, and I'm pretty > sure the sentiments of the average NHB athlete mirror my own. So > again...what am I missing here?...." You apparently are missing a few things. 1.) You have no tradition to put on the line which means you can make anything up, shoot from the hip and have nothing to protect. How very convenient for you. Except that after a while people begin to notice that you just slip from this point to that point and the only thing you have done is take an oppositional point of view. Between the lines you infer that all Black belts are two year wonders and that the BJJ training is much more demanding. And that is suppose to mean what? People who have an investment in a particular range of values are probably pretty vulnerable to you because you make sure that you never have anything that they can discover that YOUR invested in. 2.) Not a few of the people who participate on the Net have an investment in the arts that they study. Maybe its rationale and maybe its not but if you have to ask about it you are never going to understand. All your talk about winning and losing works pretty well IF thats the way people measure their lives. 3.) Now I have listened to you carry on about NHB for a little bit and the whole while that I listened to this I remember the Judo master that broken Helio Gracies arm in a contest. The match was over and Helio Gracie would not concede though it was obvious he couldn't continue with the broken arm. My sense is that NHB fans are the same way. Even if it WAS done that a "traditional KMA practitioner" won out over a NHB person its not like you would admit to it. To my eyes the only thing going on here is that once again we have a person who is trumpeting his particular favorite--- in this case a non-KMA favorite on a KMA Net. I have read your last post a couple of times and despite the occasional disclaimer to the contrary all I hear is that you value the rough-and-tumble over anything else. FWIW. Bruce --__--__-- Message: 5 From: David Weller Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:41:50 -0500 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Koryo Poomse PS Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In addition, our school teaches the 8 Taeguek and 8 Palgwe forms to color belt students. Thought I'd add that after Master Terry mentioned: "I have also seen taegeuk schools require palgue pal jang as the new form for 1st Dan." whoa, two posts in one day, maybe I'm coming out of my shell ... dave weller --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Koryo To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:26:41 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > That is one of the poomses we use for requirement for 2nd Dan. Our school has > three poomses for each Dan. Supposedly our Master follows General Choi's > Poomses!! You're ITF and you get to learn Koryo? That is good. Prior to his passing Gen. Choi would not permit an ITF school to teach Kukkiwon forms. Of course if he didn't find out about it you were okay. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:28:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] This_technique_doesn't_work Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > 3.) Now I have listened to you carry on about NHB for a little bit and > the whole while that I listened to this I remember the Judo master that > broken Helio Gracies arm in a contest. Who was that? The Judo master, that is... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Michael Falba" To: Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 18:58:48 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Koryo Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net At my school "Koryo" along with "Kwang-Gae", "Po-Eun", "Ge-Baek", "Bassi De", and "Dan Kwon" are required for Cho Dan. Mike Falba --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Peter \"Nighthawk\" Lampasona" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] RE: "that technique does not work" Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:22:03 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I was a big fan of Ron Van Clief. I had no idea he had entered the UFC. Not bad for a 51 year old man, at least. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin F. Donohue" To: Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 2:27 PM Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] RE: "that technique does not work" > Ray, > > The older guy who fought was Ron Van Clief who was born in 1943. Here is a > brief bio. > > > A martial arts practitioner for over 45 years, Ron Van Clief will be best > known to audiences as The Black Dragon. Ron Van Clief began to study the > martial arts in 1956 in Brooklyn, New York. He studied jujitsu and karate. > Ron also studied kung fu, aiki-jutsu, arnis, and other weapons. In 1973, > after the death of the legendary Bruce Lee, producer Serafim Karalexis > discovered Van Clief and as a result, Van Clief went to Hong Kong and shot a > series of films as The Black Dragon. Ron would go on to form his own martial > arts system, Chinese Goju. In 1985, Ron was invited to help choreograph the > action sequences of the film The Last Dragon. The film starred Van Clief's > student, Taimak Guariello. In 1994, at the age of 51, Ron Van Clief entered > the Ultimate Fighting Championship, but lost to Royce Gracie. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ray Terry [mailto:rterry@idiom.com] > Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 2:06 PM > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] RE: "that technique does not work" > > > Didn't Gary Goodridge admit that he was a boxer who got the local KuK > > Sool Won school to give him money to represent their style at the UFC? > > I think he was given a 4th Dan and the money needed for sponsorship (I > > think he attended class for 1 1/2 months). Didn't Andy Anderson list > > himself as being a TKD and HKD black belt.... Does anyone in the community > know if Mr. > > Anderson did indeed study Hapkido at all? I know there was a guy in > > the UFC who claimed to be a JKD Phase 1 instructor yet nobody in the > > JKD community knew who the guy was. Don't believe the styles listed > > or time spent training in a style... Wasn't Kimo listed as a TKD Black > > Belt and his teacher was Joe Son. > > I do believe that "Big Daddy" Gary and Kimo were not long time students of > any Korean art. (Any KSWers out there know of Big Daddy's training in Kuk > Sool???). Big Daddy is still actively fighting. His style doesn't look > like any KSW I've seen. And Kimo never looked like a TKDer either. But he > gave Royce all he could handle... > > But there was Ron 'can't recall his last name', a black guy that has been in > the arts for ever and ever. He was probably a bit too old to mix it up, but > he got out there and gave it a try. Got creamed. Then there was a younger > Japanese Karate guy, the real deal in the Karate circles as I recall. > He gave it a shot, but also got creamed. Once these guys got off their feet > they didn't know what to do. There is a lesson in there somewhere. > > As was previouisly mentioned, the long time masters and grandmasters have > nothing to gain and everything to lose by entering these competitions. imho > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard > disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "kdiwa@optonline.net" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] This_technique_doesn't_work Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:49:05 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Masahiko Kimura; his bio is located here: http://www.judoinfo.com/kimura3.htm > 3.) Now I have listened to you carry on about NHB for a little bit and > the whole while that I listened to this I remember the Judo master that > broken Helio Gracies arm in a contest. Who was that? The Judo master, that is... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "jeffrey kiral" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: "This technique doesn't work " Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 22:59:07 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net i have to agree with master sims... also...just fyi....this past march i was at the arnold schwarzeneger classic in columbus, oh and i was watching the san shao competitions...there was a chinese kung fu exibition team there and one of their entourage was in the competition against the non-traditional MMA competitors ( the event was open to any style ). he cleaned house...beat everyone in the class "A" bracket ( i.e. no protection except gloves )...not bad for a traditional stylist. believe what you want, but i believe that if you stay with one style long enough you will end up being a bad-a-mofo and a better person...craig, you really may be missing alot, but also...we make our own path...if yours doesnt lead to mine, then follow your path and see where it takes you. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 3:38 PM Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: "This technique doesn't work " > Dear Craig: > You apparently are missing a few things. > > 1.) You have no tradition to put on the line which means you can make > anything up, shoot from the hip and have nothing to protect. How very > convenient for you. Except that after a while people begin to notice that > you just slip from this point to that point and the only thing you have > done is take an oppositional point of view. Between the lines you infer > that all Black belts are two year wonders and that the BJJ training is > much more demanding. And that is suppose to mean what? People who have an > investment in a particular range of values are probably pretty vulnerable > to you because you make sure that you never have anything that they can > discover that YOUR invested in. > > 2.) Not a few of the people who participate on the Net have an investment > in the arts that they study. Maybe its rationale and maybe its not but if > you have to ask about it you are never going to understand. All your talk > about winning and losing works pretty well IF thats the way people > measure their lives. > > 3.) Now I have listened to you carry on about NHB for a little bit and > the whole while that I listened to this I remember the Judo master that > broken Helio Gracies arm in a contest. The match was over and Helio > Gracie would not concede though it was obvious he couldn't continue with > the broken arm. My sense is that NHB fans are the same way. Even if it > WAS done that a "traditional KMA practitioner" won out over a NHB person > its not like you would admit to it. To my eyes the only thing going on > here is that once again we have a person who is trumpeting his particular > favorite--- in this case a non-KMA favorite on a KMA Net. I have read > your last post a couple of times and despite the occasional disclaimer to > the contrary all I hear is that you value the rough-and-tumble over > anything else. FWIW. > > Bruce > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:28:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Ooops I offended someone again Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I read "HEY NOW, now thats a Stereotype if I've ever heard one. Why does any one who wears Camo Pants and Black T shirts who train to be a more "realistic fighter" have to be considered as Felons? And no were not all over 40yrs old. If many adults do not want to come into a Dojo/Dojang or whatever and dawn on the so old Pajama looking outfit I believe you call it a GI or a DOBOK, and wear a silly little belt made of cloth to signify some form of rank or ego even possibly I think as an Adult we have that right." MC Reply Corey, Most humble apologies...ment as my cryptic humor. Seriously I wear Black T-shirts and Jeans everywhere. My idea of formal is a clean Harley or Martial arts Black T-shirt :-) And I'll be forty this December. And actually we have some common thoughts on the Dobohk. Most of us really only wear the specific version we do because "it was good enough for our instructor/art/style". Personally, I'm looking into some more functional options based on activity. I will say, having done it both ways if I'm going to be escorted to the matt several times in a class/seminar, I'll take the below the elbow cotton pajamas over the macho tricep matt burn from wearing a t-shirt. If I'm going to condition, drill and free fight for 2+ hours, the Y-neck pajamas are the last thing I want on and for my BO my partner really wants me to have my Adidis ebion on rather than that natural sweat holding cotton pajamas. Cheers, MC __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25¢ http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash --__--__-- Message: 13 From: Stickfighter87@aol.com Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 00:29:19 EDT Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Ooops I offended someone again To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net um LOL okay...... Cory Ballinger I.M.A.A. --__--__-- Message: 14 Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 06:49:39 -0400 From: "Wilson, Byron" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Starting a Dojang Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net ----Ladies and Gentlemen: I am planning on starting a dojang for working men and women in a downtown area in the Midwest. I have frequently found that there are several martial artists that wish to have a place to train during lunch or immediately before or after work. I plan to have several artists (TKD, Hapkido, Aikido, Gum Do, etc.) using the space. I also plan on having an area where my wife of 27 years can teach here weight training, balance ball and aerobics when desired. Finally, I also plan to have an area for weight training that will include only free weights, treadmills, kettlebells, Pilates and other simple weight devices, no circuit training on $50K of isolation equipment. I am a second Dan in Ji Do Kwan TKD and am certified by the WTF. I have about two years before I am ready to test for third Dan and have been teaching in my Master's studio for about two years. I will be affiliated with my Master's studio so that I can offer all of the WTF advantages (?) Going out on my own, even with the help of my master is somewhat intimidating. The money and the desire to instruct with quality and empathy seem too big of a hurdle when I still notice problems with Koryo, Keumgang, Taebek and the other higher poomse I practice. Maybe too old to learn. If you would like to contact me off-line, please write to byronwilson@centralohiomartialarts.com Any advice would be appreciated. Gratefully, Byron Wilson TKD Student [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of image001.jpg] --__--__-- Message: 15 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:47:18 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: "that technique does not work" Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> Yes, I had heard that second hand a few years ago, and Royce has talked about the relationship in a recent interview. Supposedly, it's a blended art between Hapkido, boxing, and kickboxing. The guy helps Royce with some things that kind of work into what he needs for the ring. I don't think the guy is a pure Hapkido person. Supposedly, this is also the person that was teaching Filipino stickfighting to Royce. But, I thought Nono was in Torrance, not Hermosa...are those close by? <<>> Yes, I think he was pretty much fronting for the KSW folks. All I know is that I almost $h!t my pants when he caught Paul Herrera in that crucifix hold, and hit him with about eight elbows in three seconds. That's still one of the most brutal beatings I've ever seen. It's a wonder he didn't kill the guy <<>> I thought they said "Aikido" but I could be wrong. I just remember laughing my butt off when they said that he was the owner of a chain of topless steakhouses. I've also heard that he's a multi-millionaire...so I guess HE'S the one who's laughing. <<>> I'm thinking you're referring to Todd Medina. He later became a disciple of Carlson Gracie, Sr....got the Pitbull tats and the whole nine yards. He actually went on to become a pretty decent fighter. Is the gentleman affiliated with Carlson Jr. still on this list? I'd like to know where Medina is now and I'm thinking he might know? <<>> That whole thing was just bizarre. I think they claimed the TKD BB just to get some "legitimacy". Truthfully, I think at the time he was just a reformed street thug from Hawaii who had done some wrestling. He's actually now a BJJ BB under Joe Moreira. CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entities named above. If this email was received in error or if read by a party which is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, disclosure, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error or are unsure whether it contains confidential or privileged information, please immediately notify us by email or telephone. You are instructed to destroy any and all copies, electronic, paper or otherwise, which you may have of this communication if you are not the intended recipient. Receipt of this communication by any party shall not be deemed a waiver of any legal privilege of any type whatsoever as such privilege may relate to the sender. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest