Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 03:01:51 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #207 - 13 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Please Stay (DrgnSlyr5@aol.com) 2. ITF v. WTF forms (Neal Konecky) 3. Craig leaving? (michael tomlinson) 4. Re: Dahn Jun Ki Bup (Raymond Navarro) 5. technique doesnt work...again (jeffrey kiral) 6. Re: technique doesnt work...again (Ray Terry) 7. The Hapkido Police (FirstPe315@aol.com) 8. Home in one piece . . . sort of (Lloyd Martin) 9. Tenets (bill mccune) 10. summer olympics (Jonathan Jerman) 11. Name Game (Rudy Timmerman) 12. Character flaws (Rudy Timmerman) 13. Re: Tenants of Taekwondo (Lori L Brown) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: DrgnSlyr5@aol.com Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 22:32:32 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Please Stay Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Terry wrote regarding Mr. Stovall: Not to worry. Your contributions are always VERY well received and very welcome. Yeah, me too - what he said. :) Sharon --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 06:25:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Neal Konecky To: dojang digest Subject: [The_Dojang] ITF v. WTF forms Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Greetings All, Fast question. Are ITF forms performed with a straight step or a "C" step? Thank you Neal Konecky The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing. Albert Einstein --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25¢ --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 15:26:41 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Craig leaving? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Craig don't leave this list-- you are the ONLY one on here that is as fu-ked up as me!!!! ha ha, don't let it get to you bro, I love reading your posts,, they are like the garlic salt on my steak,, makes things a little tastier.... Michael Tomlinson _________________________________________________________________ Test your ‘Travel Quotient’ and get the chance to win your dream trip! http://travel.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 08:39:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Raymond Navarro To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Dahn Jun Ki Bup Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi and be blessed, Dakin and all that read this. I am a HapKiDo Sabom from the country of Panama and been teaching this art : Song Moo HapKiDo now 27 years. I still learn from my teacher Grand Master Park, SongIl 9th Dan here in Panama were we have the Song Moo HapKiDo headquarters and were we also spread this art internationally. Have groups in the states, the country of colombia and proyects to spread Song Moo HKD in India and Costa Rica. About Dan Jon Ho Hup Bup or Dahn Jun Ki Bup I learned that the movement is done slow both outwards as inwards and push time or moving outwards is best to breath exhaling and slow as to Ki Hap at the end of the spreadout of the move just to the moment of the change of movement and then as the movement returns you inhale the same way thought you do not KiHap at the end of the movement. HAP Ramon Navarro HapKiDo SabomNim Song Moo Kwan HapKiDo Panama City Panama 1. Dahn Jun Ki Bup (Burdick, Dakin R) Message: 1 Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 09:42:08 -0500 From: "Burdick, Dakin R" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Dahn Jun Ki Bup Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Kevin, Danjeon kibeop, I think, in McCune Reischauer romanization. Danjeon = tanden (Japanese) = cinnabar field. It is the region 1-3 inches under the navel. kibeop = ki (energy, breathing, etc) technique/way = ki method So it sounds like this is danjeon breathing exercises, right? Traditional part of hapkido, although we dropped them about 15 years back because of the danger to heart. This has been discussed here before, but here goes. They were isometric exercises and in our version (taught by Don Burns, who learned from Ki-Duk Lee), we were taught to breath out under pressure as we made a eum (yang or expanding) movement, then suck the air quickly in as we made a fast yin (collapsing) movement. The pressure we were generating increased pressure on the heart (because of pressure in lungs and muscles) and could conceivably contribute to heart failure in those with weak hearts or in older practitioners. So we stopped. Others do different danjeon breathing exercises. Long story short - remember to breath out to relieve pressure (no build it) when doing these exercises. Take care, Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com _____________________________________________________________ Get a web-based email for life now ---> http://mail.hapkidokr.org --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "jeffrey kiral" To: Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 17:12:08 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] technique doesnt work...again Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net going back to the NHB fighting and the TMA thing from last week... i just had a thought...the NHB fighting arena supposes one on one fighting...would you use BJJ in a situation where there was more than one opponent? it seems to me that you really wouldnt want to grapple or ground fight when there is the threat of getting your head stomped in by your opponents buddy...i would think that you would rather be standing as long as possible...this seems to me a strength of HKD training over BJJ or muai thai...alot of what we learn is under the assumption of more than one attacker...not all, since we do have JJ ground and grapple in our art,...but there are many, many things HKD does that assumes more than one aggressor. for a great example of this as well as to see a standing joint manipulation technique at work check out the park fight scene in the movie Billy Jack...and yes, i realize that it is a choreographed fight scene in a film, but doesnt the turn of events that takes place look very feasible? thoughts? --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] technique doesnt work...again To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 14:23:07 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > going back to the NHB fighting and the TMA thing from last week... > i just had a thought...the NHB fighting arena supposes one on one > fighting...would you use BJJ in a situation where there was more than one > opponent? it seems to me that you really wouldnt want to grapple or ground > fight when there is the threat of getting your head stomped in by your > opponents buddy... >From what I've seen BJJ isn't only ground fighting. I went to a BJJ seminar many years ago taught by a Gracie. The first defensive techniques he taught... side & back kick. > technique at work check out the park fight scene in the movie Billy Jack... That was actually filmed on the courthouse lawn in downtown Prescott, AZ. Last I was there the infamous ice cream store was still there, across from the courthouse. Except it was a frozen yogurt store. Wonder what Bong Soo Han thinks of people still recalling scenes from that 30+ year old movie as if it was released last year... :) Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: FirstPe315@aol.com Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 17:39:36 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] The Hapkido Police Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce- Although I respect your desire to uphold the "tenents" of traditional martial-arts and/or Hapkido more specifically, you should lighten up a little bit. I think you are a pretty brigh guy and so is Craig. I think the fact that Craig is a "non-traditionalist" is a plus. In my organization and my "style" of Hapkido we do a great amount of grappling. We don't spend the time on it that the BJJ groups do so I don't think I'll ever be to that level. However, my point in doing this is that perhaps I can do well enough to survive and escape a grappling situation to stand back up again (perhaps) but I can be more than skilled enough to deal with a boxer, TKD guy etc. so it lends to the strategies that I can use. So when I go train at my friend's BJJ school, I don't see what the problem with incorporating these things into my Hapkido system. Most of it all originally came from the same places anyway. Does this make me a non-traditionalist? Maybe, but I don't have this great "need" to do a thorough lineage and historical records search to make sure what I integrate into my system is of a "hapkido" or "korean" lineage. IMHO, what makes Hapkido are not the techniques learned because many of them are the same, some are different, and many of the "schools" (to say nothing of the multiple / original kwans) are reflections of the teachers background and strengths anyway, but it is the doctrines and philosophies of fighting that pull the techniques together. This is not common in other arts. Currently, I am seriously thinking about integrating some knife defense techniques from a style called Junsado because I find Master Kim's techniques simple, hard and effective and I like them better than my own techniques that were taught to me. So, maybe I have a "fruit-salad" style of Hapkido but I consider myself a traditionalist (is that a contradiction in terms ... I don't think so!) I tend to not like typing dissertations, but with a 107 wpm speed, this only took me about 1 minute, so forgive me. I guess what I'm trying to say is that both of your opinions are respected but you shouldn't come down so hard on a "non-traditionalist" like Craig. I think we ALL may be a little bit of that anyway. Respectfully, Jeff In a message dated 4/25/2004 3:47:32 AM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: Nobody died and left me as the Hapkido police. Maybe other people feel the same and maybe they don't. Maybe they speak-up when they feel something and maybe they don't. I'm one Hapkido person. I thought something, had a feeling and told you flat out. FWIW. --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 15:34:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Lloyd Martin To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Home in one piece . . . sort of Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net A couple of weeks ago, Master West listed that his dojang was going to be open this past weekend for anyone that wanted to come by and participate. Several of us decided to make the 8 hour drive from Seabrook, TX to Jackson, MS. just to have the opportunity to work out with one or two of his students. When we got there we found no less than two dozen of his students (not to mention Master West) ready and anxious to work with us in any way we needed. Not just Friday, but Saturday also. Even though the class was scheduled to end at 4:00 on Saturday, they stayed till well passed 5:00., just to be sure we had received the beating we apparently deserved. In a time when many seem to be arguing over who or what is/are better, these people in Jackson opened their school without concern for their time, but only so as to help others in any way they could. For Master Hodder, Lauren Hasten, Tuan Nguyen and myself,(we are apparently called mutants) I would like to express our appreciation to Master West and his Instructors and students for the hospitality that they showed to all of us. I hope we can make them feel as welcome when they come to Seabrook in June. Lloyd Martin Hodder's Korean Martial Arts Seabrook, TX --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "bill mccune" To: Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 18:17:46 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Tenets Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have a student doing a paper on the tenets of Taekwondo. She has asked me who created them and when. I have looked through my meager library and spent many hours on the net searching. I would like to give her some info on where to look. She has been working on this paper for 5 months before she asked for my help. Now I would appreciate any references anybody could give. Thank you in advance. Bill McCune --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 16:55:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Jonathan Jerman To: The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] summer olympics Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi all, I was just curious if they have forms, breaking etc. in the summer olympics or if they just have sparring. Does anyone have the answer to that. ___________________________________________________ Check-out GO.com GO get your free GO E-Mail account with expanded storage of 6 MB! http://mail.go.com --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 20:10:46 -0400 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Name Game Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello folks: Just got back from Korea, so I am trying to catch up on what's been happening on the DD. I read the following, but I am not sure who posted it first. > << KuK >> Sool Won school to give him money to represent their style at the >> UFC?>>> >> >> Yes, I think he was pretty much fronting for the KSW folks. All I >> know is >> that I almost $h!t my pants when he caught Paul Herrera in that >> crucifix >> hold, and hit him with about eight elbows in three seconds. That's >> still >> one of the most brutal beatings I've ever seen. It's a wonder he >> didn't >> kill the guy I saw a big Canadian fellow in the ring who had the Kuk Sool name on his Dobok. Since I ran the WKSA in Canada at that time, I can tell you that he was not in the WKSA; however, there was another Kuk Sool org in Canada, and they might have had him as a student. I personally can't see the other group fronting money for the Kuk Sool name, as at that time it was about to be dropped in favor of Dahn Mu Do by these folks. There were some TM issues with the use of the Kuk Sool name I believe. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 20:43:25 -0400 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Character flaws Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Craig writes: > You know, I'm not really in the mood to go round-and-round with you. > However, your post tends to insinuate that I have certain character > flaws, > and that my contributions to this fine list are less than productive Hello Craig. Seems like I missed the fun while I was away for a bit. Don't even think of leaving ya hear, who else would provide us with such wit and humor:) Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "Lori L Brown" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Tenants of Taekwondo Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 18:53:14 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I have a student doing a paper on the tenets of Taekwondo. She has asked me > who created them and when. I have looked through my meager library and spent > many hours on the net searching. I would like to give her some info on where > to look. She has been working on this paper for 5 months before she asked for > my help. Now I would appreciate any references anybody could give. Thank you > in advance. > > Bill McCune Bill, This is a very good topic for your student to pursue writing a paper. I have found similar things written in a variety of sources that I have read. The Taekwondo moral values are the same values stressed throughout society and, of course, have evolved from a variety of philosophical and religious traditions. As we know, the basic Tenants of Taekwondo are: Courtesy (Yeui), Integrity (Yomchi), Perseverance (Innae), Self-Control (Chaje), and Indomitable Spirit (Paekjol Pulgul). These five basic tenets have been adopted by many -- but the ancient Hwarang Warriors (Silla kingdom AD 550) were reputed to have established a high moral code of conduct and were schooled in the intellectual and cultural arts of the time as well as being fierce warriors. As concepts and philosophies are often developed simultaneously among societies, it might be best to say that these are ancient precepts passed down throughout history. Your student might enjoy looking up some very interesting history on this website: http://www.hwarang.org/Ancienthistory.html Back to reading Bruce Lee - Fighting Spirit. Tell you student to have fun! Lori --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest