Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 13:33:05 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #210 - 15 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. USKMAF (Dante James) 2. Common ground (Todd Miller) 3. RE: Olympic martial arts (PETER.MCDONALDSMITH@london-fire.gov.uk) 4. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_C_Step=3F_?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 5. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_KSW?= (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 6. RE: good article...good site (Stovall, Craig) 7. Stuff . . . etc. (Lloyd Martin) 8. Thanks for advice on knife training (jmchie@wideopenwest.com) 9. Korean Hangul Translation (Marc Jones) 10. RE: Stuff . . . etc. (Kevin F. Donohue) 11. Warning: Stovall is in "Warm and Fuzzy" Mode (Stovall, Craig) 12. C-Stance, publication dates for ITF encyclopedia (Dena M) 13. Re: Thanks for advice on knife training (Ray Terry) 14. dan jun in hangul (SPIVEY JR) 15. Re: running (Michael Whalen) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Dante James" To: Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:36:42 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] USKMAF Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Greetings Members of the DD, I had the pleasure of meeting several of you in Jackson. I'm up late tonight as I finish sending out my official notification of resignation from the ATA. After 25 years, it no longer represents who I am as a martial artist, and it hasn't for some time. I believe some time ago, Master Richards asked how long I was going to swim upstream. I had to wait to have the opportunity to speak to GM Lee personally. Loyalty and respect are important to me, and part of the tenets of TKD that have been of recent discussion. My relationship was with his predecessor, but through one, I speak to the other with my gratitude and respect. He wished me well and I left with peace of mind. I have been accepted as a member of the USKMAF and I look forward to the opportunities presented by its leadership in Master West and Master Hodder. I also hope to explore the TSD part of my history with Master MacHenry. I, along with my partner Dan Piller, teach in Aurora, Colorado at Ki Martial Arts Center. I teach the TKD program and Dan teaches HKD and Yudo (with me as his student). If any DD'ers are in the neighborhood, please visit us and feel welcome. We have our tickets to Houston, and hope to see some of you there in June. Peace and Blessings. Dante Dante J. James, Esq. www.denverata.com www.kimartialarts.com Change is Inevitable, Growth is Optional --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Todd Miller" To: Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 08:15:44 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Common ground Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Then, at least in this area we have common ground. Lets all face it, there are many lowlifes in martial arts. Lets not become what we disaproove of by insulting each others familys and stepping into that area of you kicked me in the groin so I will do the same to you! I for one appreciate how Bruce has always been an advocate for traditional Korean Martial Arts and its training methods. I have also had an opportunity to get on the mat with Bruce and know that he trains hard. There are great tradititional Gandmasters, Masters and there are great non traditional teachers. It depends on there charachter as to there greatness not just fighting ability. There are many posts that I do not agree with but I try to read each post for what it is, OPINION! We all have our own opinions about martial arts as seen by the varied posts we get here. It is up to each person to choose the path they wish to walk. Lets all walk/talk with honor. Just my opinion : ) Todd Miller Korea Jungki Hapkido & Guhapdo Association www.millersmudo.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: PETER.MCDONALDSMITH@london-fire.gov.uk To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Olympic martial arts Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 13:51:31 +0100 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net its an ancient Greek fighting style that was really NHB! for the modern Olympics though there would have to be a great deal more rules -----Original Message----- From: Lori L Brown [mailto:jjohnsonll@comcast.net] Sent: 27 April 2004 01:19 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Olympic martial arts The skiing and shooting event you mentioned is the Biathlon. You bring up an interesting discussion/question. Yes, those disciplines you mentioned could truly be considered martial arts. However, I do believe it is agreed that Taekwondo and Judo are the only two "modern martial arts" that are full-medal sports. Your point could include fencing, and also the Modern Pentathlon which includes shooting, fencing, swimming, riding (horses), and running. Surely, the Roman warrior would want to be proficient at all of these (except, of course, shooting- no guns then...). Does anyone know much about Pankration? They are trying to gain acceptance, as Taekwondo did, to be admitted to the Olympics. Sincerely, Lori > >The Olympics include Taekwondo Sparring and Judo. To my knowledge, > those are the only two martial arts included in the Olympic events. > > I think boxing and wrestling are in there too. :) And javelin toss, > archery. And what's the one where you ski and shoot a gun? > > Take care, > > Dakin _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang **************************************************************************** SMOKE ALARMS SAVE LIVES Go to London Fire at www.london-fire.gov.uk/firesafety This email is confidential to the addressee only. If you do not believe that you are the intended addressee, do not use, pass on or copy it in any way. If you have received it in error, please delete it immediately and telephone the number given, reversing the charges if necessary. --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 07:58:28 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_C_Step=3F_?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Chris: "......The only exception to this rule is when you are stepping in a rear-foot stance (NOT an L-stance/Back-stance; more of a "Cat Stance"). Then an incurving line is used...." Not to confuse things but as long as we are talking about such details do you know if the "sine-wave" approach to execution is likewise used in these hyung. At least I THINK thats what it is called. Apparently it is an exaggerated dropping of the hips into the technique at the point of focus something after the fashion of how swordsmen drop their hips into a cut at the point of impact. Thoughts? BTW: I DON'T see the same biomechanic used in the Okinawan and Japanese kata so I am assuming that it is an added bit later in the traditions development. Comments? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 08:04:10 -0500 (CDT) From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_KSW?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Rudy: Without putting you on the spot----- well OK I AM putting you on the spot- --- would you be willing to offer a rundown on your experience in Korea recently? No real agenda, here. I just thought it would be great to hear what went on, what you thought, etc., etc., etc. BTW: Will anybody be doing some sort of offering to the media (TKD TIMES??) on the happenings? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 08:20:58 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: good article...good site Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> Yes, those are great reviews. Thanks for the heads up. I've been to Phil Elmore's site a couple of times. He's...an interesting fellow. Obviously, he's very sharp, and very passionate about what he does. CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entities named above. If this email was received in error or if read by a party which is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, disclosure, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error or are unsure whether it contains confidential or privileged information, please immediately notify us by email or telephone. You are instructed to destroy any and all copies, electronic, paper or otherwise, which you may have of this communication if you are not the intended recipient. Receipt of this communication by any party shall not be deemed a waiver of any legal privilege of any type whatsoever as such privilege may relate to the sender. --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 06:21:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Lloyd Martin To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Stuff . . . etc. Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master West stated: "I want to thank Lauren Hasten for changing the mood and scent in my pool room, now it really reminds me of home. Manson and Dahmer were happy to see some new faces, and they thought that Lloyd looked rather tasty, but weren't sure if they were supposed to eat him or not, and they don't care much for Oriental food, so Tuan was safe." At risk of sounding like I disagree with these statements, I feel some clarification should be made. First, the names of these . . . "dogs" alone should explain my being the first to balk at "meeting" them, and the last to exit the (relative) safety of the house. Second, while standing on the other side of the five foot wrought iron fence, I still felt relatively safe until told that they can easily scale that. Master West felt it necessary to open the gate so as the "dog" named Manson would not have to expend any energy jumping over the spiked fence. He then began to explain the amount of food he has to feed these "dogs". The food bowl was roughly the size of a small jacuzzi. Third, IMHO, this "dog"(that is more the size of a horse than a "dog") would merely find Tuan to be a small snack leaving him wanting more. And last, (again not wishing to be confrontational) I was not aware that beer was considered a . . . "Scent". I stand corrected. Looking forward to June in Houston. Lloyd Martin --__--__-- Message: 8 From: jmchie@wideopenwest.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:10:30 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Thanks for advice on knife training Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I wanted to thank everyone who contributed to the subject a week or two back on knife training. My instructor lent me a couple videos, and I purchased Knife Fighting: A Practical Course by Michael D. Janich. Based on what I've read so far, the beginning seems like a primer course for beginners (d'uh)--basic stance, footwork, zones of defense and the like. His recommended grip, with the thumb extended parallel to the blade, seems counter-intuitive but that's how I'll be practicing to start. He does not seem to claim in this book any affiliation with a specific knife-fighting art. He says the recommended grip is from FMA, but in the introduction he makes it clear that the sources he draws from include police and military instruction as well as street fighting styles. It's hard to know, then, from what area he is drawing in any particular section unless he specifically references his influence. Like the discussion Bruce and Craig have been having, this is going to have to "glom" onto the framework of the limited knife work I have been instructed on in the past, and likely does not fit the standard curriculum of any Hapkido school. Still, so far I really like his attitude. Avoid conflict when possible. When it is not possible to avoid a knife encounter, his philosophy changes to strike first, and his introductory stances and techniques reflect this philosophy. Once again, thanks for the advice in this area. Jim McHie Jr. --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 08:30:12 -0700 From: "Marc Jones" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Korean Hangul Translation Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Kevin Wrote: >>Thank you for your replies on the issue of Dahn Jun Ki Bup. >>I appreciate the feedback but I believe I failed to specifically state >>what I was looking for. >>I bet Master Timmerman is also wondering about why I was asking about >>something he started teaching me 20 years ago. >>I was actually trying to get a literal translation in Hangul.  I have >>been studying Korean as an elective for my Masters degree and in the >>process I Am trying to research the origin of many of the common Korean >>names for Martial arts theories and principles.  If someone can direct >>me or e-mail me the Hangul words for "Dahn Jun" it will help.  My own >>interpretation of the consonants and letter structure used is leading me >>to a dead end. >>All in all I am in looking for a Korean Martial Artist who speaks >>Korean. >>komapsumnida, >>Kevin Janisse Dear Kevin I can provide you with the Hangul Syllabatic Symbols, I can email them as a bpm, or jpeg or something if you like.? please let me know exactly what you would like translated into Hangul and I will sort it out for you. Please also let me know if you would prefer the block style, or a more artistic-hand-drawn style. And preference of top to bottom or left to right style.. Best Regards Marc Marc Jones Jung Shin Hapkido --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:40:17 -0400 From: "Kevin F. Donohue" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Stuff . . . etc. To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net What breed of dog does Master West have? When you said the size of a horse I started to think Dane?, Wolfhound? Old English Mastiff? Etc... Kevin F. Donohue -----Original Message----- From: Lloyd Martin [mailto:lem731@swbell.net] Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 9:21 AM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Stuff . . . etc. Master West stated: "I want to thank Lauren Hasten for changing the mood and scent in my pool room, now it really reminds me of home. Manson and Dahmer were happy to see some new faces, and they thought that Lloyd looked rather tasty, but weren't sure if they were supposed to eat him or not, and they don't care much for Oriental food, so Tuan was safe." At risk of sounding like I disagree with these statements, I feel some clarification should be made. First, the names of these . . . "dogs" alone should explain my being the first to balk at "meeting" them, and the last to exit the (relative) safety of the house. Second, while standing on the other side of the five foot wrought iron fence, I still felt relatively safe until told that they can easily scale that. Master West felt it necessary to open the gate so as the "dog" named Manson would not have to expend any energy jumping over the spiked fence. He then began to explain the amount of food he has to feed these "dogs". The food bowl was roughly the size of a small jacuzzi. Third, IMHO, this "dog"(that is more the size of a horse than a "dog") would merely find Tuan to be a small snack leaving him wanting more. And last, (again not wishing to be confrontational) I was not aware that beer was considered a . . . "Scent". I stand corrected. Looking forward to June in Houston. Lloyd Martin _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:01:15 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Warning: Stovall is in "Warm and Fuzzy" Mode Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> Well, for whatever its worth...I for one have never said that you don't have the right to be angry. I guess I just wish you wouldn't lump my name in there with Hackworth every time we get crossways. In regards to being angry, I'd be the first to applaud you if you decided to drive down there and do a rendition of 'Walking Tall' at his dojang. Heck, I'd throw in a couple of bucks for the 2x4, and organize an effort here on the list to send you care packages at the state pen while you serve out your time for assault & battery. But, that's the child in me speaking...the part that longs for simple solutions to complex problems. In this case, beating some sense into people who are probably already damaged beyond repair, and seeing at least some small measure of "justice" visited upon their doorstep in the process. I suppose the adult in me is still holding out for a better way... In regard to what happens on the internet...yes, this thing is certainly a marvelous tool. And, like any other tool that I can think of, the potential to do damage with it greatly outweighs the potential to create with it. I don't know what you can really do to keep certain people off of here...assuming that's what they deserve...assuming we can ferret out who was right and who was wrong in the context of the original dispute. I never had a stake in that argument, and I probably never will. The only thing I know is that certain people (from what I've been told) stooped to the lowest common denominator in an effort to "resolve" that original dispute. In other words, they let the child in them do their thinking for a little while...simple solutions to complex problems. Instead of a 2x4...they used the information super highway. Instead of a cracked skull...we have a person's life turned upside down. This is the only list that I actively participate on. I read Eskrima Digest, but rarely post (Ray, that's $5 for the plug...thanks). Bulletin boards...I can hardly read them anymore, and only peruse a few every once and a while. Reason being is that I know how easy it is to get caught up in the politics, emotions, and pettiness that are rife within any board or list that's been operating for more than six months. The problem is not the "net" itself, but the fact that it affords the opportunity for so MANY people to come together that happen to see the world in so MANY different ways. In the end, conflict is inevitable. Sometimes the chaos brings into being new and relevant information. Most of the time...its just noise. The trick is to not get caught up in the noise, and I think we do a fairly good job of that around here (Stovall conveniently adopts a state of short-term memory loss in regard to recent events). I would encourage you to use this list to promote the values and standards of KMA that you believe have a positive contribution to society, the arts, people's lives, etc. I would also encourage you to forget about those "other people". No matter what you do, they will never come over to your way of thinking. As far as warning others about those "other people"...I say we're all adults here...caveat emptor. Bottom line...you cannot change them. Here is the real kicker...have they changed you? Just think about it. I think I will now try to get rid of this warm and fuzzy coat...it itches. CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entities named above. If this email was received in error or if read by a party which is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, disclosure, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error or are unsure whether it contains confidential or privileged information, please immediately notify us by email or telephone. You are instructed to destroy any and all copies, electronic, paper or otherwise, which you may have of this communication if you are not the intended recipient. Receipt of this communication by any party shall not be deemed a waiver of any legal privilege of any type whatsoever as such privilege may relate to the sender. --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 09:48:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Dena M To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] C-Stance, publication dates for ITF encyclopedia Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Spiller, At what point in training is this C-stepping introduced. I have never hear if it and have been training for 6 years (which I know is not that long). We have been tought different directions that are labeled with letters, D is in front, C is behind you, A is to the right and B is to the left, etc. Also, the ITF does not have a cat stance. At least that I have not seen so far. I read earlier where someone posted that General Choi's first edition of the Taekwon-Do encyclopedia as published in 1968, the first edition in english was published in 1965 (I have a copy). I also have a copy of the 1972 english edition. Don't have them with me so I can't give you the place of publication, but I am sure the 1965 edition was published in South Korea, can't remember right now where the 1972 edition was published. Just a little history. Dena Martin Message: 3 Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:47:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Spiller To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] C-Stepping in ITF tuls Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Greetings All, > > Fast question. Are ITF forms performed with a > straight step or a "C" step? > > Thank you > > Neal Konecky ITF patterns are performed with a "C" step, which Gen. Choi referred to as following "an outcurved line." His texts make a differentiation between 3 types of stepping; following an outcurved line, a straight line and an incurved line (kind of a reverse C step). The C step is favored because it allows the leg to bend while at the same time the body can naturally turn for hip twist in the technique. The only exception to this rule is when you are stepping in a rear-foot stance (NOT an L-stance/Back-stance; more of a "Cat Stance"). Then an incurving line is used. Taekwon, Chris --__--__-- Message: 13 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Thanks for advice on knife training To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 08:11:14 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I wanted to thank everyone who contributed to the subject a week or two back > on knife training. My instructor lent me a couple videos, and I purchased > Knife Fighting: A Practical Course by Michael D. Janich. ... > > He does not seem to claim in this book any affiliation with a specific > knife-fighting art. .... Marketing hype. He studied a little Serrada Eskrima and is now a expert in knife fighting. :) Actually his stuff isn't too bad. Basic, but nothing wrong with basic. Gotta start somewhere. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 14 Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:01:26 -0700 (PDT) From: SPIVEY JR To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] dan jun in hangul Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net hi kevin, since you are studying korean, you will know far more of it than i do, but i have always read (and been told by koreans) that dan jun in hangul is exactly that - dan jun (tanden in japanese) - your ki center, below your navel.... you will probably be able to figure out the hangul characters. hope this helps, howard --__--__-- Message: 15 From: "Michael Whalen" To: "dojang digest" Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 12:42:02 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: running Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Breaking loose and running is the optimal solution... Yep, 'cause if I have to chase somebody more than 50 yards I'm not mad at them anymore... michael whalen KSWnut --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest