Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 07:09:02 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #213 - 20 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: RE: Olympic martial arts (Lori L Brown) 2. Re: KTA vs. kukkiwon (Lori L Brown) 3. C STANCE (Richard Tomlinson) 4. multiple attackers (J R Hilland) 5. RE: C STANCE (Hagness, Chris R.) 6. Re: KTA vs. kukkiwon (Ray Terry) 7. Re: knife defense - a reality check (Ray Terry) 8. Re: C-Step (ISA Headquarters) 9. RE: Re: C Step? (PETER.MCDONALDSMITH@london-fire.gov.uk) 10. C Step/Sine wave (Robert Martin) 11. Re: Re: C-Step (Ray Terry) 12. Re: GM Lee Yong Su (Ray Terry) 13. Gm Choi's knife ? (Ray Terry) 14. Mike Ghrwawi (Tracy Bodnarchuk) 15. Bruce (FRANK CLAY) 16. Re: Mike Ghrwawi (Ray Terry) 17. RE: Mike Ghrwawi (Kevin F. Donohue) 18. 2004 USTU Junior Olympic TKD Chip (Ray Terry) 19. Exit Lurk Mode (Charles Richards) 20. Bruce,on sine wave (George Peters) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Lori L Brown" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] RE: Olympic martial arts Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 09:28:55 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Pankration did exist at one time as an ancient Greek combative sport right > alongside boxing and wrestling. I believe it roughly translates to "all > powers combat". Think of it as an NHB event in the purest sense of the > word. Little is known about it except that it was truly a no-rules fight in > the sense that all manner of combative technique was brought to > bear...punching, kicking, throwing, grappling. There are some historical > records that give us glimpses at it, but in the end we don't know much....... etc. etc." Wow, Craig, thank you for the exceptionally informative and thoughtful response. I had just heard some people talk about it recently -- had never heard of the "sport" and tried to find more information on it. Sounds a little too brutal for my liking ;-), but I can understand why some of the young guys who love to grapple and fight would be excited about such an event. You guys have a wealth of information to share. Thanks again. Lori --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Lori L Brown" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] KTA vs. kukkiwon Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 09:38:51 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > What is the relative difference and value for Korean Taekwondo Association > and Kukkiwon certifications? Which is better? > Sincerely, > Sid Rubinfeld Hi Sid, We were just having a discussion on this topic last Tuesday with one of our master instructors. The value of having a Kukkiwon certificate is for competing Internationally. The KTA may be similar to the USTU (the USTU is currently under reconstruction) in that you may have your certification, but it is required to have a Kukkiwon Certificate to compete Internationally. Sincerely, Lori --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Richard Tomlinson" To: Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:55:33 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] C STANCE Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In our Taeguk forms 7 and 8 we use the cat stance in a push block, double high knife block and for a quick snap kicking. It is also used in Kuemguan for the Kuemguan Makki block. I also teach my students how to walk in this stance. Any inputs on the benifits of this stance? sandy --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:27:52 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] multiple attackers Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I read the recent comments about this subject and would like to provide my 2 cents worth. EVERY time I have had to defend myself in the past 30 years, it has been against multiple attackers. But my muscle memory from training in hapkido took over each and every time without failing. The first time I was very surprised it worked that way, despite being told it would so many times. I personally place a high VALUE on the traditional martial arts, specifically, hapkido. But everyone is different, that is what makes the world go around. Jere R. Hilland www.rrhapkido.com www.HapkidoSelfDefense.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Hagness, Chris R." To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] C STANCE Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:40:06 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >> In our Taeguk forms 7 and 8 we use the cat stance in a push block, double high knife block and for a quick snap kicking. It is also used in Kuemguan for the Kuemguan Makki block. I also teach my students how to walk in this stance. Any inputs on the benifits of this stance? sandy _______________________________________________ There are lots of uses for the Cat stance (not to be confused with the C step), but the most practical I've found is for a quick retreat into a defensive position (the cat stance) followed by an immediate stepping forward into an attack. The front foot [of your sparring or front stance] moves back into the cat stance, then forward into a front stance again. If you combine your block and attack into a circular motion, the whole thing flows nicely. We also use the cat stance in weaponry, in particular the staff which has reach. When stepping around your opponent (usually deflecting an attack as you move), you may find you have an option of maintaining same foot forward (in a cat stance) or stepping around behind yourself with that foot (into a front stance). The first option means you don't move farther away from your opponent, while the second option moves you farther away. The first option lends itself to an immediate attack after the block, the second doesn't necessarily do so. Chris Hagness hagness@mayo.edu --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] KTA vs. kukkiwon To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 12:53:44 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > What is the relative difference and value for Korean Taekwondo Association > and Kukkiwon certifications? Which is better? Kukkiwon. I don't believe the KTA gives out Dan certifications. Some folks were selling fake KTA Dan certs, but that is another story... The KTA is Korea's NGB (National Governing Body) to the WTF. Just like the USTU is the NGB for the USA. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] knife defense - a reality check To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 12:54:32 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > bottom line: use the richard pryor knife defense - RUN! the examples in this article demonstrate what a high-risk proposition knife defense really is, even if you're well trained. > First law of knife training. You -will- get cut. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "ISA Headquarters" To: Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 16:12:01 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: C-Step Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I sell a video called "The Early Masters of TKD" (no plug intended.) The video was shot on Super 8 films and pieced together to make a VHS tape. It seems to have been filmed somewhere in the late 60's to the 70's. Nowhere on this tape is the C-Step. The tape has Gen. Choi introducing his Demo team, who perform all the Hyungs (Tul) from the 4-directionals to Tong Il. All the stepping for Walking Stance (Front Stance) is straight-thru stepping. No outcurve, no incurve and definitely no Sine Wave (which hadn't been invented yet). The same applies when going from L-Stance (Back Stance) to Walking Stance. George Petrotta isahdq@sc.rr.com www.sungjado.org --__--__-- Message: 9 From: PETER.MCDONALDSMITH@london-fire.gov.uk To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: C Step? Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 21:12:21 +0100 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net MY understanding of the principle of sine wave was more like a tennis player playing the over hand serve. IOW, from the 1,toss of the ball upwards 2,then the ball comes down 3,the player smashes the ball with his downward force and forward momentum. to get maximum power the tennis jumps up and gets all of body weight behind the stroke. on the subject of biomechanics it important for me that like any science the technology evolves. compare motor mechanics from the 1960's to today. some fundaments remain the same but technology evolves. this is why I have no problem with NHB or BJJ. I will continue to study TKD and evolve and adapt therein. INNAE! -----Original Message----- From: bsims@midwesthapkido.com [mailto:bsims@midwesthapkido.com] Sent: 27 April 2004 13:58 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: C Step? Dear Chris: "......The only exception to this rule is when you are stepping in a rear-foot stance (NOT an L-stance/Back-stance; more of a "Cat Stance"). Then an incurving line is used...." Not to confuse things but as long as we are talking about such details do you know if the "sine-wave" approach to execution is likewise used in these hyung. At least I THINK thats what it is called. Apparently it is an exaggerated dropping of the hips into the technique at the point of focus something after the fashion of how swordsmen drop their hips into a cut at the point of impact. Thoughts? BTW: I DON'T see the same biomechanic used in the Okinawan and Japanese kata so I am assuming that it is an added bit later in the traditions development. Comments? Best Wishes, Bruce _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang **************************************************************************** SMOKE ALARMS SAVE LIVES Go to London Fire at www.london-fire.gov.uk/firesafety This email is confidential to the addressee only. If you do not believe that you are the intended addressee, do not use, pass on or copy it in any way. If you have received it in error, please delete it immediately and telephone the number given, reversing the charges if necessary. --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:19:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Martin To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] C Step/Sine wave Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net C step in ITF TKD is not as pronounced as in some Karate styles or other TKD systems. Gen. Choi pushed for movement to become more natural. The C-step and sine wave are, to some extent, a natural motion of the body as it moves forward. In the ITF patterns, the sine wave is very pronounced -- over pronounced in my opinion (for what its worth). A very good explanation of sine wave was made to this list a few years back by Dave Steffan. A search in the archieves will bring it up. The current issue of Black Belt (I know, I know - not the best publication) has an article on the Karate double twist (? - I think that was the name). Very similar to sine wave and hip twist. Robert Martin --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: C-Step To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 13:29:31 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I sell a video called "The Early Masters of TKD" (no plug intended.) > The video was shot on Super 8 films and pieced together to make a VHS tape. > It seems to have been filmed somewhere in the late 60's to the 70's. Very interesting, by the way. I obtained a copy from George several years ago. Not a polished production, but interesting to view. A recommended addition to your video library. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 12 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] GM Lee Yong Su To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 14:53:06 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > GM Lee Yong Su started training with DJ Choi Yung Sul at the same time as DJ > Kim Yun Sang (December 1973) and they were training partners and graded > together up to their 9th Degree (in 1984). After DJ Choi died, GM Lee reduced > his training, while DJ Kim continued with daily training. They ran a dojang > together in Gum San until 4 years ago. Great info! I suspect that Lee Yong Su and Kim Yun Sang must have had Hapkido training prior to 1973 to get all the way up to 9th by 1984?.? Do you know who they trained under prior to learning from Gm Choi? > DJ Kim Yun Sang has many of DJ Choi's records and many historical photos, as > well as the photos DJ Choi requested of the techniques he was teaching at that > time. Its a gold mine, and he guards it well! Any chance you, or a fellow student, can get some of those pics and records up on the web? Would be great for researchers. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 13 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 15:02:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Gm Choi's knife ? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Todd mentioned: > It is my understanding that the knife was Doju Nim Choi's weapon of choice > and he carried a particular knife always. Any more info on this knife? What type? Style? Only one? (many knife people carry multiple knives at all times) Just curious. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 14 From: "Tracy Bodnarchuk" To: Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 18:39:44 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Mike Ghrwawi Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Out of lurk mode..... Has anyone heard of a Master Mike Ghrawi? He is from Lebanon. He moved to Edmonton AB Canada a couple of yrs back and in February has opened a Hapkido school. I have tried to search out his name on Google but I cannot find any lineage as to where he has got his training. He says he is with the "IHF" I don't know which one. I saw Certificates up to 8th Dan on his wall and some type of certification from "world kido fed" or "International kido fed" I can't quite remember. He think he said that Choi was one of his instructors. He said that he has 35 yrs in the martial arts. He does seem like a nice guy. On his business card it states this.... OKUYAMA MARTIAL ARTS ACADEMY MIKE GHRAWI "Hanshi 9 Dan - kaiden shihan" "Hapkido 8 Dan" "Taekwon do 7 dan / olympic trainer" I was just wondering if anyone has heard of him and can verify his credentials Tracy --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.672 / Virus Database: 434 - Release Date: 4/28/04 --__--__-- Message: 15 From: "FRANK CLAY" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 19:23:15 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Bruce Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce, This is going no where. You do not know me, nor have you been on the mat with me. You don't know about what you speak, and yet you judge. As far as I am concerned, discourse with you is over. It will go no further, so believe what you wish. Frank Clay _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 --__--__-- Message: 16 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Mike Ghrwawi To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 18:19:25 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > On his business card it states this.... > OKUYAMA MARTIAL ARTS ACADEMY > MIKE GHRAWI > "Hanshi 9 Dan - kaiden shihan" > "Hapkido 8 Dan" > "Taekwon do 7 dan / olympic trainer" Aren't okyuama and hanshi Japanese words/terms? Seems strange for someone teaching Korean arts... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 17 Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 22:51:12 -0400 From: "Kevin F. Donohue" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Mike Ghrwawi To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Tracy, Check out this link. Mounir Ghrawi may be your guy. I hope this helps everyone. I don't know a thing about him. http://www.alshindagah.com/august/mounir.htm or http://members.shaw.ca/ajja/index_page0003.htm Kevin F. Donohue -----Original Message----- From: Tracy Bodnarchuk [mailto:trbod@telusplanet.net] Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 8:40 PM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Mike Ghrwawi Out of lurk mode..... Has anyone heard of a Master Mike Ghrawi? He is from Lebanon. He moved to Edmonton AB Canada a couple of yrs back and in February has opened a Hapkido school. I have tried to search out his name on Google but I cannot find any lineage as to where he has got his training. He says he is with the "IHF" I don't know which one. I saw Certificates up to 8th Dan on his wall and some type of certification from "world kido fed" or "International kido fed" I can't quite remember. He think he said that Choi was one of his instructors. He said that he has 35 yrs in the martial arts. He does seem like a nice guy. On his business card it states this.... OKUYAMA MARTIAL ARTS ACADEMY MIKE GHRAWI "Hanshi 9 Dan - kaiden shihan" "Hapkido 8 Dan" "Taekwon do 7 dan / olympic trainer" I was just wondering if anyone has heard of him and can verify his credentials Tracy --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.672 / Virus Database: 434 - Release Date: 4/28/04 _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 18 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 20:41:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] 2004 USTU Junior Olympic TKD Chip Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net 2004 United States Taekwondo Union Junior Olympic Taekwondo Championship June 30-July 6,2004 The USTU Would Like To Invite All USTU Competitor Members To The 24th Junior Olympic Taekwondo Championship Georgia Dome Atlanta, Georgia This year's Junior Olympics will be an open event to all U.S. Residents and Citizens (for 2004 only). - You must be between the ages of 6-17 and a green belt or higher to compete. - While the 2004 State Tournaments are not qualification events for this year's Junior Olympics, we still encourage your participation in your State Tournament. Go to www.USTU.org to download your application and for questions call 719-866-4632. Book Your Hotel Now At www.thsweb.com Or Call THS At 1-888-536-8326 --__--__-- Message: 19 Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 20:51:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Exit Lurk Mode Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear List, I was taught (in TSD) to use the C-step for "blocks" and the straight step for "strikes". The head is/was level in both. We also called it a K step . Although my instructor never vocallized it, I figured out that the motion was on the balls of the feet, which allows an agressive hip rotation (with jing as it were) into the final position. FWIW, I love Craig "got a million tag lines" Stovall's posts and Bruce's points AND counter-points. I hope they both keep posting and I pray that we can all "just get along." Yours in jung do, Charles Richards www.mojakwan.com Lurk mode resume... __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover --__--__-- Message: 20 From: "George Peters" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 01:11:33 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Bruce,on sine wave Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Good Sir, I guess I should have engaged my brain before my keyboard because I misunderstood what you meant by the term and ass-u-med. We(my org) are not permitted any up and down movement, the height of the stances are supposed to stay consistent. You were correct though in comparing Shaolin long fist and TSD, as TSD is 30% thai chi and shaolin long fist and 10% Hung Gar therefor I would expect and in fact always find many Chinese influences in MDK TSD. These influences have always been a delight when practicing with a CMA friend of mine who always says "your system does not have this". Anyway, I thought I'd better clear this up before someone starts passing around my picture in order to initiate a witch hunt with me being the guest of honor. Please forgive me my ignorance in this matter. Respectfully, George _________________________________________________________________ Test your ‘Travel Quotient’ and get the chance to win your dream trip! http://travel.msn.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest