Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 03:01:48 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #220 - 14 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. The Korean War (Ray Terry) 2. Re: Selling Addresses (ABurrese@aol.com) 3. Running from Knife (Randall Sexton) 4. Re: selling bert's address (ChunjiDo@aol.com) 5. Re: ITA opinions (Manuel Maldonado) 6. C-Stance (Johnjfitzg@aol.com) 7. Re: C-Stance (Ray Terry) 8. BANG-TV? (Ccricks612@cs.com) 9. What type of students do you prefer? (t.metzner1) 10. Doju Nim Choi's knife (Todd Miller) 11. RE: Re: ITA opinions (Jason Thomas (Y!)) 12. RE: What type of students do you prefer? (Kip McCormick) 13. Re: Doju Nim Choi's knife (Ray Terry) 14. Re: General Choi "hating" sine wave (Christopher Spiller) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 10:16:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] The Korean War Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The Korean War: A Historical Dictionary, Paul M. Edwards, 2003. Lanham, Maryland and Oxford: The Scarecrow Press. xl + 367 pages. Maps, illus., bibliog. (ISBN 0-8108-4479-6). Price US$75. Reviewed by James E. Hoare SOAS, University of London jim@jhoare10.fsnet.co.uk The once "forgotten war" is forgotten no more, at least if the number of books that deal with the subject is anything to go by. The spurt of such publications that began in the 1980s as Western archives from the Korean War period became available to scholars shows no sign of abating. Indeed, it has received new impetus as material filters out from Chinese sources and from the archives of the former Soviet Union. Reducing this mass of information and analysis to usable form for students and others interested is a major task and it is not surprising that there have been a number of dictionary or encyclopaedia-like volumes attempting to do just that in recent years. Some have concentrated very firmly on the military aspects; others have attempted to cover political issues as well. The volume under review tends more towards the military than the political, though the latter is not entirely absent. The author, who heads the Center for the Study of the Korean War at Graceland University's Independence Missouri campus, has published a number of bibliographical works on the Korean War, and on some of the military campaigns of the war. He provides much detailed information on military equipment, the ships and types of aircraft, and similar subjects. There are potted biographies of most of the major military figures of the war, and of quite a number of politicians. The majority of these accounts, inevitably, deal with people from the United States, but others are also covered, including a good number of South Koreans. Selecting entries is always a difficult choice, but I was surprised at the space devoted to Lt. Swenson, whose main claim to fame seems to have been a case of mistaken identity. The entry for the "Mayor of Wonsan", a joke title bestowed on the senior US officer in charge of the siege of that city, also seemed a bit self-indulgent, when the North Korean ruling party only gets two lines. The entry on the Salvation Army deals only with the US branch of that body in its role of providing comfort to the troops. There is no mention of the Korean Salvation Army, or its head, Commander Lord, despite his long years in Korea and the important part he played as interpreter and negotiator during his time in captivity. Also missing is the sad tale of the Seoul Salvation Army boys' band, marched off by the North Koreans and never heard of again. Only US medals and only the US Korean War Memorial have entries. A careful explanation of how British Royal Navy ships are named fails to mentio! n that "His Majesty's Ships" all became "Her Majesty's Ships", as did those of Australia, Canada and New Zealand when Queen Elizabeth II replaced King George VI on 6 February 1952. On the other hand, it is not surprising, given Edwards' past works, that the bibliography, at just under 80 pages, and confined to works in English, is very comprehensive, and draws attention to many little-known or older works that still have use for the study of the war. Having just finished revising another historical dictionary published by Scarecrow, I know that it is a hard task. The constant repetition of terms, unavoidable in such a work, can make one careless. (I found, for example, that I had "Chosun", "Choson" and "Chosen" all in the same entry, and all supposedly covering the same period of time.) So it is vital that compilers of such works, especially when they are to be used by non-experts, check them over and over again for accuracy. Even then, small errors will creep in. In this volume, Chen Yi, the Chinese soldier and later foreign minister, comes out as "Chen Yi (Chen L"), instead of "Chen Yi (Chen I)". The veteran South Korean diplomat, Han Pyo-wook, died in 2003, not 1983. It was Kaesong that was the capital of the Koryo dynasty, not Pyongyang, and it certainly was not captured in Operation Piledriver in mid-1951 - Pyonggang is presumably what is meant. Dates are often wrong. Ernest Bevin, British Foreign Secretary at the ! outbreak of the Korean War, died in 1951 so could not have been in the same post in 1961. Suiho was not bombed in 1956. Kim Ch'aek is General Kim, not General Ch'aek. The founder of the South Korean navy has two entries, once as Shon Il-won, and once as Son Il-won. These minor errors are irritants but some could mislead the unwary. Other mistakes are more serious, even if they are also produced by carelessness. The entry on the Neutral Nations' Supervisory Commission (NNSC) is incorrect on several points. The concept arose out of the armistice negotiations, and the Armistice Agreement established it, not the United Nations. India was never part of the NNSC. And while the NNSC's role was much reduced after 1957, it did not cease to function. Indeed, it still exists today, and meets occasionally, albeit no longer recognized by the North Koreans. The entry on Sweden says that Sweden sent 162 military forces to the Korean War. But Sweden did not send military personnel to Korea until it joined the Neutral Nations' Supervisory Commission after the armistice in 1953. The whole point of the NNSC was that its members were drawn from countries that had not fought in the war. Those already knowledgeable about the Korean War will soon spot the errors, and may find them no more than an irritant. For others, this must be a book to be used with caution. Citation: Hoare, James E. 2004 _The Korean War: A Historical Dictionary_, by Paul M. Edwards, (2003) _Korean Studies Review_ 2004, no. 07 Electronic file: http://koreaweb.ws/ks/ksr/ksr04-07.htm --__--__-- Message: 2 From: ABurrese@aol.com Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 13:48:53 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Selling Addresses Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >> I have done business with Chajonshim several times, >> and I can speak to the validity of this statement, and >> their professionalism... In fact, I know it's true, >> because I have to keep reminding her where we are >> located... <> :-) >> Seriously, I have always found Chajonshim to be >> very professional and good to work with... >Agreed. Just yesterday got some school shirts via Ms. Mel. >Another happy customer. Agreed here too! I have ordered a number of things from Chajonshim and have always been pleased with working with Mel. Alain www.burrese.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Randall Sexton" To: Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 08:14:12 -1000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Running from Knife Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net << but I have heard from several sources (that I cannot readily recall) that running is one of the worst things you could do. I guess that would depend on the situation.>> Try turning and running from a knife-wielding partner at different distances to see what happens. Randall Sexton www.LaughingHara.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 15:00:43 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: selling bert's address Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "Greetings, all... I have done business with Chajonshim several times, and I can speak to the validity of this statement, and their professionalism... In fact, I know it's true, because I have to keep reminding her where we are located... <> :-) Seriously, I have always found Chajonshim to be very professional and good to work with... <> - Bert Edens Springdale, Arkansas" oh, Lordy, you got me there, bert. someone was looking for a martial arts school in atlanta and of course i asked bert, since he's in a state that starts with an "A", he must know. and then every time you need a shipping quote...hey, at least i ask instead of assuming youre in "A"laska or some other far "A"way place...lol :). thanks for the kind words, bert. take care, mel --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Manuel Maldonado" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 12:18:53 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: ITA opinions Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I've been off the internet for quite some time but are you guys talking about GM Benko's Association? I used to be a member back in the late 70's early 80's GM Benko was a 6th dan I think he's a great man and easy to talk to as well. I still call him and chat once in a while I thought once of teaming back up with him but came to the conclusion of just being on my own no affiliation with anyone. Don't need the headache. Maldonado Kwan Jang http://devoted.to/Taekwondo ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the coupons and bargains on MSN Offers! --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Johnjfitzg@aol.com Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 18:08:05 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] C-Stance Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray: I practiced Tang Soo Do MDK throughout the 1970's and never heard of "C-Stance" We were instructed to move from stance to stance with our head remaining at the same level as you noted. Is the "C" an abbreviation? What does the "C" stand for? Thanks for info. John Message: 13 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] C-Stance, publication dates for ITF encyclopedia To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 17:47:03 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > At what point in training is this C-stepping introduced. I have never > hear if it and have been training for 6 years (which I know is not that > long). I don't know if c-stepping is part of ITF TKD, but it was part of Tang Soo Do back in the day. The idea was your head remained at the same level as you stepped forward, from front stance to front stance. Ray Terry --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] C-Stance To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 15:17:28 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I practiced Tang Soo Do MDK throughout the 1970's and never heard of > "C-Stance" We were instructed to move from stance to stance with our head > remaining at the same level as you noted. Is the "C" an abbreviation? What does > the "C" stand for? C-step, not C-stance. You're probably correct. I don't recall us calling it that in TSD. It was just the correct way to step. I probably heard it called the c-step later when I was told that was -not- the correct way to step. :) The 'C' stands for the letter your foot outlines on the floor as you step forward. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ccricks612@cs.com Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 19:29:42 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] BANG-TV? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net BANG-TV is a professional wrestling TV show put on by semi-retired pro wrestler Dory Funk Jr. to give his wrestling school students experience in front of live crowds and TV cameras. The school is in Ocala, just up the road from Ocoee. If curious, here's his website. http://www.dory-funk.com Cole Ricks --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "t.metzner1" To: Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 07:59:01 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] What type of students do you prefer? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net A quick word on sine wave. General Choi started teaching it in 1989 and as Mr. Martin said, emphasized it to the end. It is only one part of his theory of generating power. To me it is the art in martial arts. It is how to generate maximum power. Not practical in free sparring. But you can find sine wave in other sports. In baseball, a pitcher in the windup is using sine wave ( he needs maximum power). A second basman turning the double play does not use sine wave because he needs more quickness. More importantly, I wanted to ask a question for students and instructors out there. What type of class would you rather teach (train in)? 1) a class of former military personnel, big, strong, disciplined, quick learners, respectful and already quite capable of defending themselves; or 2) a class of low self esteem, shy, quiet, meek but interested, energy draining, uncoordinated nerd types who have never stood up for themselves. Don't cop out and say both or a mix, in this theorectical you can only choose one of the two. I am interested in your opinions. Tom Metzner --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Todd Miller" To: Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 09:34:05 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Doju Nim Choi's knife Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Any more info on this knife? What type? Style? Only one? (many knife people carry multiple knives at all times) I have a replica that was made by a friend in Korea. It looks very similar to the tanto style from Japan. The blade has a gradual curve and is very thick. This knife was a gift from Takeda Sokaku according to DJN Choi. I do not know if he had more than one or not. It was explained to me that DJN Choi had this one particular knife that was his favorite and he did not teach the knife techniqes very often and only to certain students. I will try to get a picture of the replica I have even though it is made of wood it will give you an idea of the type. Take care Todd Miller Korea Jungki Hapkido & Guhapdo Assc. www.millersmudo.com --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Jason Thomas \(Y!\)" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: ITA opinions Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 09:26:25 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I believe the ITA in question is the International Tae Kwon Do Alliance (Art Monroe etc...)... -----Original Message----- From: Manuel Maldonado [mailto:sudomakki2003@hotmail.com] Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 2:19 PM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: ITA opinions I've been off the internet for quite some time but are you guys talking about GM Benko's Association? I used to be a member back in the late 70's early 80's GM Benko was a 6th dan I think he's a great man and easy to talk to as well. I still call him and chat once in a while I thought once of teaming back up with him but came to the conclusion of just being on my own no affiliation with anyone. Don't need the headache. Maldonado Kwan Jang http://devoted.to/Taekwondo ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the coupons and bargains on MSN Offers! _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Kip McCormick" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] What type of students do you prefer? Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 15:16:56 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Tom- I teach military only -- I'm a soldier and all of my students are from all branches of the service. I need to blow a hole in your theoretical ideal of military personnel. Remember that they are a sampling of American society, meaning not all are big, strong, disciplined, quick learners, respectful, etc... Having said that, I love teaching military folks for one reason: focus. I've noticed a big difference with their focus in the past year, especially w.r.t. what's going on w/ the war on terrorism. The air force navigator who trains with me said he's doing so because, "when I'm shot down and have nothing but my cool haircut and my hands, I want to be able to defend myself." I don't know about the cool haircut, but I do know that he's a focused individual on learning what will keep him alive on a battlefield with no boundaries. The marines I train are fantastic and come closest to your ideal of what military personnel are. The army hooahs who train with me range from infantrymen to quartermasters, ranks from private to lieutenant colonel, and all of them truly want to learn. Most of my guys will rotate to Iraq, so we work a lot of realistic, practical techniques they can do in full gear -- no flash allowed. How it's helped me as an instructor is that they are real quick to wave the "BS" flag if they think a technique is too flashy or technical for the battlefield. I have to do some, but not a lot, of the "prove it to me" with these guys. I find the biggest guy, do the technique, and they're believers. I've posted before on this topic -- if you're near a military base or national guard armory, offer your services to these great men and women. You won't be disappointed. Your question is theoretical -- otherwise, I'd say "both," simply because I love to teach and I see great challenges and rewards from teaching (and learning) from all walks of life. Kip Kip McCormick, LTC, US Army "Warrior Hapkido" USKMAF, Seoul Korea >More importantly, I wanted to ask a question for students and instructors >out >there. What type of class would you rather teach (train in)? 1) a class of >former military personnel, big, strong, disciplined, quick learners, >respectful and already quite capable of defending themselves; or 2) a class >of >low self esteem, shy, quiet, meek but interested, energy draining, >uncoordinated nerd types who have never stood up for themselves. Don't cop >out >and say both or a mix, in this theorectical you can only choose one of the >two. > >I am interested in your opinions. > >Tom Metzner >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang _________________________________________________________________ Getting married? Find tips, tools and the latest trends at MSN Life Events. http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=married --__--__-- Message: 13 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Doju Nim Choi's knife To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 15:28:19 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I have a replica that was made by a friend in Korea. It looks very similar > to the tanto style from Japan. The blade has a gradual curve and is very > thick. This knife was a gift from Takeda Sokaku according to DJN Choi. > > I do not know if he had more than one or not. > > It was explained to me that DJN Choi had this one particular knife that was > his favorite and he did not teach the knife techniqes very often and only to > certain students. > > I will try to get a picture of the replica I have even though it is made of > wood it will give you an idea of the type. Good info. Any idea how it was carried? i.e. just on a belt sheath or a bit more concealed? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 14 Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 18:18:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Spiller To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: General Choi "hating" sine wave Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi all. There have been a few postings addressing the question of whether or not Gen. Choi actually did NOT like sine wave. Some people were unsure of where this post was from. A quick perusal of the Dojang Digest's archives turned up the follwoing from just a few days ago. Begin Quote: Message: 11 From: "Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 20:04:45 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] ITF C-Step, Sine Wave, and Cat Stance Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net For what it's worth, I thought I'd chime in here with my experiences with these topics. >>Snip<< Regarding Sine Wave: Then for some odd reason in the early/mid-80's, Gen. Choi was influenced by some physics guru and was told that by moving in a Sine Wave motion, the body would generate more power...<< All I can say is: God bless the physics guru in question. As I get better as sine wave there has been a *noticable* increase in the power I have been able to generate. >>I STILL haven't figured that one out! Everyone knows that the shortest distance from one point to another is a straight line, not an up and down motion like a Sine Wave.<< I think Dave Steffan has addresses this issue quite well in recent postings with the distinction between tactics and power generation. >>Will it generate more power?? Don't know. Maybe I'm wrong or maybe I'm missing something but I always thought that power was best delivered in a straight line motion.. Now, I know that what I am saying can be described as "my opionion". It very well may be, but that was the way I was taught.<< I don't think that these two things (delivering power in a straight line and generating power from sine wave) are actually opposed to each other. One's punch, for example, still travels in a straight line to the target as the hips are twisted and the body is dropped. >>Here is something that is NOT opinion, but fact. I have on videotape an ITF tournament in April 1989 in Pottstown, PA hosted by Jim Murray, I believe, where Gen. Choi was flown in as Guest of Honor. During that tournament while the Black Belt forms were going on Gen. Choi grabbed the microphone and told everyone to "STOP!" He had ALL Black Belts whether they were competing or not to come out onto the gym floor and have a seat. Gen. Choi then took his jacket off and with the microphone stepped out onto the floor and verbally chastised all the Black Belts for doing the infamous "Sine Wave"... All of the Black Belts were doing Sine Wave motions in their forms. He then demonstrated that while stepping you should NOT step with your body moving up and down, but rather in a straight line, in a C-stepping motion! Low and behold, he just told ALL those Black Belts what I had been learning allllllllll along! He told them they were NOT to do Sine Wave. The look on all the Black Belt's faces was of pure shock. Here they had Gen. Choi tell them to immediately change the way they were stepping. There was obviously a HUGE misunderstanding of either to Sine or not to Sine.<< That's one video tape I'd LOVE to see :) In all honesty I find this incredible (if not incredulous). I posted earlier in this thread about the three kinds of "waves" possible. Are you sure that General Choi wasn't excoriating the use of a "saw-tooth wave"? That would be an exaggerated bobbing of the head due to the legs of the person becoming nearly or totally straight when they moved. Just out of curiosity, does the video in question have good quality sound to it? I'd be veru interested in hearing Gen. Choi's critique. >>If you look at the old dogs of ITF-style, or Chang Hon TKD, they don't Sine Wave..<< Well, Grand Master's Rhee, Ki Ha; Hwang, Kwang Sung and Charles Sereff are pretty "old" and they all do it. Not to mention Master Choi, Jung Hwa and the late Park, Jung Tae. Taekwon, Chris __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest