Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 03:01:50 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #227 - 13 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Home training. (jeffrey kiral) 2. 9th Dan (Eric) 3. Recognition (Eric) 4. WTF successor (Neal Konecky) 5. Pellegrini promotion (Wicker, H. Keith) 6. Re: General Choi "hating" Sine Wave (Robert Martin) 7. SineWavegs (Robert Martin) 8. Correct training (Rudy Timmerman) 9. Re: Home training. (jeffrey kiral) 10. Re: ¿Bienvenido? (Manuel Maldonado) 11. Mark Your Calendar! (DrgnSlyr5@aol.com) 12. Re: Home training. (Grndmastr88@aol.com) 13. Re: Home training. (Kevin) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "jeffrey kiral" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Home training. Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 19:51:05 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net first, before i can answer that, what do you study and why do you study it? ----- Original Message ----- > Hello all, > Aside from practicing what you have just learned in class over and over > again. What other things do you all at home do to improve yourselves? > ie: videos, magazines, etc. > Thanks for the welcome. =) > -Kevin --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Eric" To: Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 18:47:58 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] 9th Dan Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I am not a member of the I.C.H.F, just passing on info. SO, THERE IS NO POINT!!!!!! Is there a problem with this Eric??? I didn't think there was until now, just wondering Eric --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Eric" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Recognition Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 18:55:25 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Rudy, Thanks for the info, word on the bus at the start was three Major promotions GM Pellegrini, GM Baubil and yourself, so I was mistaken, when he went up I thought it was for that also. I will have to convey my regrets then. Thanks Sincerely Eric --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 17:55:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Neal Konecky To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] WTF successor Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi All, Are we to understand that after being forced to resign from the USTU for, among other reasons, financial irregularities, Sang Lee is in line to head the WTF? Or, is there something that I do not know or understand? Neal Konecky Taken from www.geocities.com/armtkd: "04.28.2004 - As we already have informed you, the new WTF President to fill Dr. Un Yong Kim's remaining term of office will be elected at the extraordinary General Assembly to be convened on June 11th 2004. The extraordinary meeting will be held at the Hyatt Hotel near the Incheon International Airport in Korea. Four candidates including Acting President Sun Jae Park expressed their willingness to run for the election. The other three candidates are Cha Sok Park and Sang Lee, both WTF Vice Presidents, as well as Chung Won Choue, former President of the Kyunghee University in Korea. " The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing. Albert Einstein --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Wicker, H. Keith" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 21:55:22 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Pellegrini promotion Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Kennelly, Please excuse my original post...I have since then received an explanation for this occurrence from a true grandmaster that I have the utmost respect. I should have inquired first about this occurrence off line. I apologize for any offense and mean no disrespect to you or your organization. Keith Wicker Wicker's Korean Martial Arts, USKMAF 3rd Dan TKD 2nd Dan TSD 1st Dan HKD <> Why would you even suggest that rank can be purchased from Gm Seo. Comments like this can smear others who have received rank from Gm Seo as well. Either Gm Seo has credibility or he doesn't. Tom Kennelly 2nd Dan USCDKA TKD 1st Dan ICHF <> --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Robert Martin" To: Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 21:53:01 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: General Choi "hating" Sine Wave Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Thomas wrote: > I believe Sine Wave was an after thought. Obviously it was from the "founder". However, there are so many people that don't do sine wave, evolution would seem to force a different conclusion. > The mistake is in thinking that sine wave is a separate part of Taekwon-Do. It is one part of one part of the Theory of Power. It appears to me that students who left General Choi before the concept was fully developed use the "after thought" argument on a regular basis. That Taekwon-Do evolved from Karate is beyond doubt and that that evolution includes the concept of sine wave. > ITF people tend to equate Chang-Hon forms with Tae Kwon Do, but the General's first renditions or writtern materials use the Tang Soo Do or Karate forms/patterns (depending on your outlook). Suddenly, (on a whim some might say) this was not Tae Kwon Do. The Pyung Ahn forms are older than the General and NEVER used sine wave. > The Chang-Hon forms are the basis of the system. Originally, Gen. Choi did include the old Karate forms in his books. But they are Karate not Taekwon-Do. And the fact remains that he did create the new patterns that used a different method to generate power. I've watched some "WTF" schools do the Chang -Hon patterns. It looks just like Karate. > The general did embrace sine wave. He did try to promulgate it, but the Chang Hon Patterns were released well before the concept of sine wave was developed or matured. > Correct. However, the basis of sine wave has been included in the encyclopedia since the early 80's. This was when "Mass" was added to the theory of power. Sine wave is a part of the "mass" explanation but not in so many words. General Choi coined the term after the concept was created not before. At one time it was called "Spring Style". > We could easily argue that James Neismith was the founder of Basket Ball. If he started to embace a Bunny Hop theory, suggesting every replace dribbling with bunny hopping and holding the ball above their head 20 years after the sport took off, he might get some following. However, the people who practiced the refined art of dribbling over the past 20 years would still be playing basket ball. In fact will would be the bunny hoppers who changed from the established norm and would be playing a modified version of the sport. > > The opinion that sine wave is the only way or the only right way is narrow and close minded. Gen Choi Hong Hi made great contributions to the art of Tae Kwon Do. However, he didn't own it. No more than a flea owns the dog he lives on. There were many contributors to Tae Kwon Do before during and after his life. > Not closed mindied at all. Instead it is about learning from the fournder of the Chang-Hon system and following his system. > At the end of the day Chon-ji is comprise of Low Blocks, Punches, Side Blocks, front stances and back stances. Who can claim ownership of a low block? The move itself pre-dates modern Tae Kwon Do and probably human memory. > At the end of the day Choi-ji is comprised of low block, punches, inner forarm blocks, walking stance and l-stances. These are the correct terms as defined by the creator of the system. It isn't about General Choi claiming ownership of the block or stike or kick. It is about the concepts of how the techniques are delivered. It is about performing the techniques according to the theory of power. and the other concepts/methods created by General Choi. > > If they are being > >done in the old, flat line method then they are wrong. This doesn't mean > >they are bad -- just not what the founder wanted, and therefore, wrong. I > >don't mean any disrespect to any one out there. I'm just expressing my > >opinion. > > Just because the founder wanted it one way doesn't mean something is wrong. There are many teachers many theories etc... Gen Choi Hong Hi was a great man, but was a man none the less. There are several martial artists of sufficiently high level that have alternate and acceptible theories of power, patterns etc... > What? I'm sorry but this doesn't make sense. If the founder took the time to develope concepts, test them and teach them then we have a duty to do them the way he wanted. Sure there are other people that do things differently and have just as much legitimacy. I don't question that or doubt it. But they aren't doing Chang-Hon Taekwon-Do unless they are doing it the way that General Choi wanted. That, to me, is black and white. > I have great respect for Gen Choi and you Mr. Martin, but I believe this assertion to be wrong. > Thank you and I have a great deal of respect for you Mr. Thomas. However, we appear to be at an impass. > Respectfully, > > Jason Thomas > > > > Regards, > > Jason > With respect, Robert Martin --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Robert Martin" To: Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 22:05:26 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] SineWavegs Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > It seems that everybody take it for granted that SineWave > produces > more power. But does anybody have a reference of a study > that proves it? I prove it every time I practice Taekwon-Do. > Mr. Martin said at one time that there is a study done at > some university > that proves that the SineWave delivers more power than the > traditional > techniques, i.e. straight line,hip twist, etc. > I'm still trying to track this down. I believe the tests were done in the spring of 1973. I suspect that they were done in Canada. I have been trying to get some time from Grand Master Sereff to ask him about it. There is a reference to a "speed" test done in April of 1973 in the encyclopedia. It maybe the same test. > Maybe in some special cases, I can see that a SineWave might > be able > to give you some extra power but in general I cannot > convince myself that > that is the case. > So you are, in fact, admitting that sine wave can work? If you are truly interested I would suggest spending some time with one of the Grand Masters or senior masters that truly learned the techniques from General Choi. It might be surprising. > On the other hands, it's easy to see how SineWave can be > slower. > Yes, if done incorrectly. > I practice TKD for over 35 years. I started out with ITF, > stayed with it until 4th Dan. > I attended a seminar with General Choi as a color belt when > he first introduced > TKD to VietNam and before he invented SineWave, and to this > day I have not done > SineWave because the scientist in me is not convinced that > it helps me at all. > Was that the only seminar you were every able to attend with General Choi? That was most unfortuante for you. The first seminar I attended was in 1991 so things were pretty much developed. > ------------------------------------- > Luc T. Nguyen With respect, Robert Martin --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 02:00:26 -0400 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Correct training Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mel writes: > it'll put a strain on the back of the knee. make sure youre doing > upper leg training (front and back) as well, > so that everything stays in balance. Hello Mel: Great point. Too many people train without giving thought to what they are doing to their body. One of the main reasons for stressing joints, ligaments, or other muscle groups is that no thought is given to the antagonistic muscles of a given group being worked. Nice job of reminding folks of that danger. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "jeffrey kiral" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Home training. Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 10:05:49 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net look around this site....check out the training section... http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/bbinfo.php?page=MMAFighting ----- Original Message ----- > again. What other things do you all at home do to improve yourselves? --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Manuel Maldonado" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 08 May 2004 09:16:23 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: ¿Bienvenido? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hola Alejandro... Ud. no nesesita permiso... I myself welcome you with open arms you will find that all the people that post here are sincere and very helpful. I've made several friends on this list.Again welcome and que viva Mana ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. --__--__-- Message: 11 From: DrgnSlyr5@aol.com Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 20:55:37 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Mark Your Calendar! Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Plan ahead! Jang Mu Hapkido Association's Fall Seminar Featuring GM Chong S. Kim Saturday, Oct 9, 2004 Laughlin, NV The Colorado Belle Hotel & Casino ~Sharon --__--__-- Message: 12 From: Grndmastr88@aol.com Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 23:18:46 EDT Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Home training. To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The learning tools have to be videos. You can study at your dojo, go home and train w/ other styles w/ videos. I weekly rent 2-4 tapes from the local Karate store and watch them. I also bring what I learn from the videos back to my school. --__--__-- Message: 13 Date: Sun, 09 May 2004 09:45:42 -0400 From: Kevin To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Home training. Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello all, I study Tae Kwon Do. The reasons that I study are numerous, but if I had to pick a few: physical and mental fitness, focus, discipline, lifestyle change........ The list can get rather long if I sit here and blabber on about it. I would also like some feed back on the types of heavy bags that you all might be using at home. Hanging or freestanding. Water or sand (other?). Pros and cons...yadda..yadda. I am very well aware that nothing can replace a true instructor, it is hard to tell yourself that your feet are in the wrong position or to open your stance if you have not been shown the proper way. So what I do so far is: Practice in front of a mirror, starting slow to get the movements down, then building on the speed and strength (ends up being an hour and a half or so a night). I really am interested in how 'you all' practice at home. The opinions and ideas of people who have been doing this from a few months to their entire life mean a great deal to me and can potentially help me in more ways than one. Thanks for reading, -Kevin jeffrey kiral wrote: > first, before i can answer that, what do you study and why do you study it? > ----- Original Message ----- > > >>Hello all, >>Aside from practicing what you have just learned in class over and over >>again. What other things do you all at home do to improve yourselves? >>ie: videos, magazines, etc. >>Thanks for the welcome. =) >>-Kevin > > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest