Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 11:53:03 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #236 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Hand Signs (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 2. 6/12 USKMAF Seminar (Dennis McHenry) 3. Lecture (Ray Terry) 4. Re: KOMA (Jesse Segovia) 5. Korean Studies (Ray Terry) 6. RE: General Choi "hating" Sine Wave (Robert Martin) 7. USKAMF Seminar (Seabrook/Houston) (Braeswood Martial Arts) 8. MAIA (J R Hilland) 9. Re: KOMA Clarification (Stovall, Craig) 10. Martial Arts Business Support Organizations (Taekwon-Do) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 07:09:51 -0500 (CDT) From: To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Hand Signs Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Bryan: ".....Could someone tell me the history/significance of the martial arts salute? The one I am referring to is where the right fist meets the left palm at center body and the left fingers either fold or stay erect. What style uses that and where is it appropriate and inappropriate?...." The salute that you mention has had a few interpretations over the years but just about all of them come back to the Chinese arts. The most common origin seems to be that of a recognition sign among pro-Ming groups. The story was that the intention was so that groups unknown to each other, when meeting, would not fall to fighting one another but recognize that they are all anti-Ching in their sentiments. Another more modern take is that this gesture seems to bespeak "balance" (Um-Yang) and is a pleasant way to begin a drill or form. Personally I don't use it unless it is a proven part of the form. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Dennis McHenry" Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 13:29:44 GMT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] 6/12 USKMAF Seminar Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: "silentflute" "If one was flying in, which airport is the closest?" That would be Houston Hobby Airport. Mac ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 06:53:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Lecture Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net A Special Lecture Presented by Korean Studies Program and Institute for Modern Korean Studies Graduate School of International Studies Yonsei University Title: "The Centennial of Korean Immigration to America: A Look Back at the Events of 1902-1905" Speaker: Dr. Wayne Patterson Professor of History, St. Norbert College Time: Monday, May 24, 2004 6:00 pm Venue: Room 701 New Millennium Hall Yonsei University For further information please call 011-9967-3203 --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 10:14:56 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Jesse Segovia To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: KOMA Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Brian Beach wrote: >A corporation by it's >nature has responsibility to the ones providing the capital then to >employees and the ones that they are providing the goods or service. I >don't trust any corporation to look after my best interests. I don't >believe that McDonald's is providing "healthier" fare because they are >concerned with the public health. It just an attempt to keep bodies in >the stores and profit margins up. > VERY off topic here so I apologize in advance, but this is typical anti-business stuff we hear all the time, and shows a real lack of understanding of how business really works. Yes, a corporation is beholden to its shareholders, and what it owes to its shareholders is success and profits, which come from meeting the needs and interests of the customers and employees. Anti-business people think if corporations could succeed by screwing the customer they'd intentionally do it every time, and yet that's a full contradiction in terms. Corporations, which can't force you to buy or use their products, MUST satisfy you in order to stay in business. If you have a problem with McDonalds' fare, complain to your friends and family members who keep buying Happy Meals and Big Macs - don't blame McDonalds for giving the customers what they want. If McDonalds stopped selling Big Macs out of high-minded, snobbish altruism, some other corporation would step in and give the customer what they want, with the result that McDonalds would be out of business and unable to do ANY good for the consumer, and we'd still be eating our Big Macs. On the other hand, government bodies, colleges and universities, labor unions, and most nonprofits are not in business to please or satisfy anybody except largely themselves. They do what they want largely free of competition or any test of whether or not they meet anybody's needs. If you think government is looking out for you, then you've got worse problems than how many Big Macs you've eaten in the last month. I'd rather live in a community run by McDonalds corporate executives than most of the clowns we get running our government. Jesse --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 08:18:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Korean Studies Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net KOREA UNIVERSITY MASTER IN KOREAN STUDIES Enrich your knowledge of Korea at one of the most prestigious universities in Korea Offers both two-year Masters degree and one-year Certificate programs All courses are taught in English Program emphasizes contemporary Korean society, with special focus on culture, economy, politics, and modern history Students are accepted for admission every semester Application deadline: Fall Semester 2004, July 31 All students can ppply for the Korea Foundation Scholarship In addition, U.S. citizens are eligible for the Freeman Foundation Scholarship that covers tuition fee and stipend For more information, contact: Graduate School of International Studies Korea University Phone: 02) 3290-1391; fax: 02)929-0402 e-mail: gsis@korea.ac.kr http://www.koreagsis.ac.kr --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 08:26:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Martin To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: General Choi "hating" Sine Wave Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net You are entitled to your opinion -- no problem. However, I must disagree with it. > Mr. Martin, > Please pardon the delay in replying. Many things > had my attention as of > late. > > Respectfully, I disagree with this whole concept of > "being wrong." > General Choi made up some patterns/forms. In forty+ > years, he made > several changes to those patterns/forms. If he > lived another forty, > undoubtedly he'd made more. So who's to say his > last change would have > been THE last change? Because he wrote the > Taekwondo was complete? He said it was complete a dozen years ago. No real changes were during that time. If the founder says its complete who can disagree with him? > Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of respect for > General Choi and what he > did to martial arts. But as an old man, nearing > death, claiming that > Taekwondo is "complete?" Please, it's a martial art > and nothing is > complete. We've all likely said that the only sure > thing is that things > change. > This is true -- the only constant we face in our lives is change. That being said -- who has the right to change Gen. Choi's system? GM Sereff? He says he doesn't. He may set a standard for the USTF but he will not change the basic system. > As you stated, I will be interested to see what > happens with sine wave. > Should USTF go back to "flat line" method, will they > be wrong? Yes. > Should > USTF stay with the sine wave while the other 20 > ITF's go "flat line," > will they be wrong? Yes. > Will someone "evolve" sine wave > and make it > better....and therefore will they be "wrong?" If someone makes a change and it works and is accepted, than they are no longer doing General Choi's TKD. They are doing their TKD. > Should GM Sereff have > more say than the other ninth degrees promoted under > General Choi? See above. > Or > what about his son or some other relative? No. Gen. Choi did not give his system to anyone person. He gave it to the whole world. > > General Choi taught Taekwondo to many people in > various arts. Many of > those people followed him and became ITF/Choi > disciples. Some did not > and some split off the ITF. Seems General Choi made > a few changes along > the way and it was the new "correct" way. Those > that did not join ITF > and/or stay with it were suddenly "wrong." From > that angle, it sounds > like a marketing "you gotta be with me...or you're > wrong" ploy. > > My thinking is that you are doing Chang Hun the way > General Choi taught > it last and the way GM Sereff deems best at this > time. Should that > change, and you change with it, you'll still be > doing it correct by USTF > standards. If it is not what General Choi was teaching than it is not his system. It would be something new or different. > I am doing a different flavor of Chang > Hun forms and mine > are correct in my school and well received at > tournaments and to my > seniors. > You are correct. It is right for your school but to claim that it is Chang Hon is incorrect. It is "Chang Hon patterns done with the flavor of Master XYZ". Your instructors or their instructors are doing something different than what the creator of the system wanted. Therefore it can't be the creators system. > As always, I enjoy reading your input. > > Warm regards, > > Thomas Gordon > Florida > ITF/Chang Hon TKD will evolve and change. No question of that. The founder of the system is gone. While he left a pretty complete system behind, to expect it not to change is not realilistic. He didn't give the system to any one person. At his last public appearance in Denver he told us that TKD no longer needed General Choi -- that we all had to be General Choi. Robert Martin --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Braeswood Martial Arts" To: Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 10:29:54 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] USKAMF Seminar (Seabrook/Houston) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Myself and several of my students are planning on being there and looking forward to hitting the floor with you all. (Closest airports are Hobby and Arlington, approximately 20 miles or less away from HKMA) Kat --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 11:24:10 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] MAIA Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I was with MAIA for several years. It is cheaper than NAPMA and basically the same material. Century's version. For me, the only useful part was the advertisements. On occasion, they would have a good one I could use. They claim they are generic, but they are more geared towards the American karate style. The local paper only came out once a week, so I could afford a large advertisement once a month. Most of them will give or sell you a free month, to see what they are about. Get one without a commitment from each organization and place your value then. Just my suggestions. Jere R. Hilland www.rrhapkido.com www.HapkidoSelfDefense.com <<>> --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 11:33:42 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: KOMA Clarification Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce writes, <<>> I absolutely jive with everything in that post. However, what's amazing to me is that there does seem to be an endless line of followers out there that are perfectly happy to turn over their hard earned money year-after-year just to get treated like a second class citizen. Thankfully, there are a lot of people out there that are looking to network with other like-minded people in order to exchange information, and create quality training environments/opportunities. All of this being administered to by experienced individuals who pursue this work through the motivation of "passion" as opposed to "profit". I guess this would describe those "quality" organizations that are supposedly lurking out there. Then there are the folks who are only looking for validation and a cool patch for their uniform. As long as they can say that they train with someone who has a Korean surname, or can make some supposedly relevant claim like "our organization is recognized by the Korean government" then they're going to be as happy as a little lark. Add a little "our style is better than your style" posturing on top of that, and they can die a happy person tomorrow while basking in the fantasy that they have arrived at the apex of martial arts excellence. These are the types that get sucked into the "Hackworth Zone". The difference between me and the whistleblowers is that I say "piss on all of 'em", and let them build their little fantasy worlds. Who am I to rob them of their opium? In the end, this is all "much ado about nothing". When its all said and done, the state of the arts will be dictated by the quantity and quality of people who are getting out on the mat and doing their respective thing. Any of this activity happening under the oversight of any particular organization will have a more direct influence on the flow of funds into and out of people's pockets as opposed to actually influencing the quality of said practice. In 18 years of study I've figured out that the road to excelling in martial arts revolves around three primary dynamics...building relationships, assimilating knowledge, and working one's ass off. There are other roads but this is the one that I've found most productive, and it can all be done outside of politics or organizational structures. Bottom line...I don't know if organizations are inherently good or bad for the martial arts. In the balance, it may be a wash. What I do know is that more than a few people go out and join organizations for the same reason they throw a sidekick a particular way...because "this is they way its supposed to be". Each year, countless organizations will hand out free copies of 'Who Moved My Cheese' to it's members/employees. Half of them do it in the hopes that the readers will become aware of how human and organizational behavior can oftentimes be no different than that of rats in a maze. The other half do it because this what everybody else is doing this year. What can I say...it's a goofy ass world. Enjoy. CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entities named above. If this email was received in error or if read by a party which is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, disclosure, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error or are unsure whether it contains confidential or privileged information, please immediately notify us by email or telephone. You are instructed to destroy any and all copies, electronic, paper or otherwise, which you may have of this communication if you are not the intended recipient. Receipt of this communication by any party shall not be deemed a waiver of any legal privilege of any type whatsoever as such privilege may relate to the sender. --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Taekwon-Do" To: Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 10:35:24 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Martial Arts Business Support Organizations Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Can anyone comment on their experiences with Martial Arts Business Support Organizations such as MAIA etc.? I'm considering joining one and would appreciate some comments and recommendations. Thanks in advance, Jason Hello Jason after watching what the other guys were doing for a long time I decided to subscribe to MAIA this was January of this year and right off the bat I was unhappy with the materials don't get me wrong the packaging was beautiful but the content lacked originality the fresh new perspectives were the same old ideas wrapped in a new package, and the marketing materials sole purpose was to get the subscriber to purchase the next program from the company. Even the website was only a series of useless thumbnails that served no real purpose, and the brilliant management ideas were raise your prices. I decided to give MAIA a call and outline my concerns, after speaking with one of their reps, I decided to continue my subscription for another month, Februarys "Success Kit" arrived in the mail and once again I was very unhappy with the ideas for example one of the ads was to host in-house Courage Tournament another was a Martial "ART" Night out where small children (3-6) do crafts and things at the dojang, obviously they have never seen what can happy to a room when you release 10-20 overly excited children into it let alone give them paint, crayons and or play dough even the ad featured a small girl covered from head to toe in paint I bet you would be scrubbing that off the mats for years to come. Ok maybe these weren't for me but may be excellent for another dojang maybe I can replace some the text and or replace the photo, Nope, they made sure that you can only add your information in the spaces provided and forget about downloading a different ad from the "Members Only" section these are just little thumbnails that I was informed may actually allow you to download them at a later date, Ok lets say for your $100 per month you just use your membership for the "Special Discounts" I checked into that as well and sorry that offer expired August 2003. Keep your money what they have been doing for the last 10 years is about all they can come up with and If Billy Blanks didn't come along and ignite the cardio craze most of these so called brilliant marketing companies would have quickly went out of business. I have gained more from being a member of the National Korean Martial Arts Association and discussing ideas with other members in one month then I ever did being a member of some Marketing Company. Just my 2 cents --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest