Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 03:01:49 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #249 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. New Upcoming Hapkido Association (John Johnson) 2. Movie Troy (Todd) 3. SMK??? (michael tomlinson) 4. Mr. Miyagi as role model (Burdick, Dakin R) 5. Competition (guesugi) 6. Well said (Eric) 7. Re: Competition (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "John Johnson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 05:52:31 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] New Upcoming Hapkido Association Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Fellow Hapkido-in, Master Bae finally outlined some of his future goals last week. His first goal is to continue helping international Hapkido-in by creating a non-profit association of KHF members. While this association must be organized through a kwan in order to have individual dan and dojang certificates issued, it will be open to all KHF members, regardless of kwan status. The only exceptions will be individuals who have not trained in Hapkido, individuals who do not wish to join the KHF, or members the two other KHF kwans seeking international members. This association is not a break-off organization. It will be an association under the KHF banner. Its goal will be simple: to provide professional services for those who wish to join a Hapkido organization based in Korea. The members of the organization will be held accountable not only for their skill in Hapkido, but also for their morality and decency. They will not be asked to join another kwan or change masters or instructors. The association will have a headquarters in every country in which it has members. These headquarters will also use the KHF symbol. They will be responsible for testing and sending their rank requests to association¡¯s headquarters in Korea. As stated previously, the association will be a non-profit organization. The association will charge only a nominal fee for joining (I have already suggested the processing of $5-15 America to cover the cost of printing a certificate and postal charges). The entire purpose of this association is, once again, to offer a means for international Hapkido-in (people who practice Hapkido) to be recognized by the Korea Hapkido Federation. However, keep this in mind: we are only at the beginning stages of development and changes can (and will probably) occur. Therefore, I ask you understand if any information in this letter changes. I hope Master Bae and I have shown you the professionalism needed to conduct an association of this magnitude. Master Bae has asked me to emphasize that this associate is a work in progress and will take time to elect officers and create the processes outlined above. Nevertheless, it will be our honor and pleasure to help those people who wish to join the Korea Hapkido Federation. And here are some questions and answers from the KHF English Web site. I thought these would help shed some light on some of the issues. ¡°1.) If I am undersatanding you, Master Bae is introducing to the KHF another kwan at which he is the head. This kwan is in addition to the other 70-some-odd kwan already recognized by and organized by the KHF. The reason for the need for yet another kwan, even over and above the most recent Song Moo Kwan of Julian Lim (KHF-Malaysia) is that THIS kwan will provide service to and recognition of American Hapkido practitioners that can't be found---- in the other SEVENTY kwans?¡± No, Master Bae is not creating a new kwan. What he is doing is creating a non-profit association for nearly all Hapkido-in inside or outside the KHF. Master Bae is one of the senior masters of UlJiKwan, one of the largest and oldest kwans inside the KHF. He has never stated he wanted to leave UlJiKwan, just as he has never stated any hopes or plans to make money off of this venture. ¡°2.) If appropriate regard and recognition of American practitioners can't be had among over 70 kwans including two large kwans already extant in the West PLUS a hierarchy of leadership already established by the KHF what hope is there that yet one more organization is going to do the job?¡± The entire purpose of this association is to work within current KHF guidelines. When Master Bae came into the KHF office he tried to change the organization from a kwan-centered to an organization-centered federation. This proved too be impossible due to the loud voices of several influential people. Therefore, Master Bae has decided to play the game by their rules. There is nothing preventing him (or anyone else) of creating their own group within the KHF. Consequently, by being a senior in the UlJiKwan Master Bae can still offer to help international peoples (not just Americans) to receive KHF recognition. However, I will state very clearly that I will push for stricter test procedures and policies than what he had in place as director of the KHF. Once we have announced an American association, which I am hoping Master Harold Whalen will create, than whoever the president of that association is can decide the proper means for testing potential members in their country. As stated before, there will be an American organization, as well as organizations in other countries, that all answer to senior masters here in Korea. One aspect I did not emphasize is that Master Whalen and Master Holcombe Thomas are not UlJiKwan. They are responsible for creating a good reputation for KHF Hapkido-in in America, and Master Bae and I would be proud to work with them again. ¡°3.) If I am understanding you announcement the new kwan will STILL be answerable to the umbrella organization --- the KHF. How does this get rid of the conflict or provide for a more equal treatment by the president and board of directors?¡± The equal treatment comes from individual members joining the KHF under the association. Though I have stated they do not need to join a KHF kwan or change instructors, if they choose to do so they will have the protection of KHF senior masters. If this occurs, than the KHF office must meet the requests of the senior masters, since they have the most influence and power. This is what I mean by playing the KHF¡¯s game on their terms. ¡°4.) If this venture fails, what recourse do people who have put their trust in yet one more kwan and Korean leader have? How about if Master Bae comes to the US and he organizes a completely American kwan independent of the KHF AND its kwans with a Western president and a Western board of directors? Why need the organization be necessarily oriented towards Korean management?¡± The problem with your idea is that Master Bae is looking to help Hapkido-in of the world. While I am American, as International Relations Director I had almost weekly contact with people from Hong Kong, Singapore, Malaysia, England, Belgium, Iran, Germany, and many, many other countries. These people deserve a chance to be recognized, too. The reason for Korean management is detailed above. But, to state it even more clearly, without recognition from a senior master or an established kwan than someone cannot join the KHF. Also, your idea about starting an American kwan is exactly what Richard Hackworth attempted. I do not think the KHF will make that mistake twice. John A. Johnson 4th dan, UlJiKwan _________________________________________________________________ Learn to simplify your finances and your life in Streamline Your Life from MSN Money. http://special.msn.com/money/0405streamline.armx --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Todd" To: Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 21:24:05 +1000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Movie Troy Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I know this is a bit off the subject of KMA, but I just saw the movie "Troy" recently with Brad Pitt and Eric Bana. I couldn't get over how quick Brad Pitt has muscled up for his role as Achilles. Does anyone know what his training methods consisted of ? Or am I being naive thinking it is all totally natural and not medically or pharmaceutically enhanced. I honestly dont mean to be cynical, but he really looks strong and fit in this movie. All up, I totally enjoyed it, the fight scenes were different from the usual and reminicent of a martial arts flick. Todd --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 13:51:07 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] SMK??? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net As Mr. Clay so eloquently put it, I guess I should "talk" more like a professional... let's see, maybe like a car salesman,, they are professionals,, they talk REALLY well, problem here is that you guys are right, I'm not refined, I have the weakness of trusting my eyes, ears, and instincts... and I NEVER forget that a zebra is a zebra and not anything other than that,,,,, I have no aggression or problems with anyone on here and I wish everyone the very best but make no mistake, I won't be swayed into buying a 72 Vega just because you tell me it is a new Cadillac.. If Doju Nim Ji told you you couldn't use the name of his old organization then that should of been the end of it.... period... this outstanding Hapkido legend has forgotten more Hapkido than any of you and I will ever know. I feel that respect and honor should dictate how you handle yourself. Not in lip service but in your ACTIONS. It seems to me that to much talk about honor and professionalism but not enough action showing those concepts. That's what it really boils down to now doesn't it.. Go train with him, he is open, engaging, and a great man,, he is not getting any younger and the time is now. I guarantee you he will humble you and make you a better person. Again, I have no problem with anyone on here and don't want to argue with you folks but when you disrespect Doju Nim Ji you disrespect all of Hapkido and you disrespect me. So if you don't want my opinion lets see more honorable actions and less lip service.. Michael Tomlinson (still kwanless) p.s. I am more partial to the Apache model of Chiefdom. They had War Chiefs who distinguished themselves in battle and THEN were appointed Chief. Again, Chiefs by action not by Incorporations, paperwork, kwans, etc.... _________________________________________________________________ Learn to simplify your finances and your life in Streamline Your Life from MSN Money. http://special.msn.com/money/0405streamline.armx --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 10:19:41 -0500 From: "Burdick, Dakin R" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Mr. Miyagi as role model Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Alain Burrese tells us: >Do watch every time Mr. Miyagi speaks. Watch his behavior, and listen to his wisdom. And look how the relationship and respect is formed between him and his students... That is something we can all learn from. Mr. Miyagi may be a wonderful guy, but that Daniel-san is a rotten student. Over the three movies, he becomes more and more out of shape and more unworthy of Miyagi as an instructor. It's been a long time since I saw these movies, but I recall something about Daniel stealing Mr. Miyagi's prize bonsai. Is that right? I remember I thought he was more an ass than ever before. One of the Amazon.com reviewer (Jonathan Helig) hit the nail on the head I think: "Daniel's beloved mentor and father figure, who has saved his lfe, built him a very nifty shower curtain halloween costume, taught him self-confidence, self-defense, tolerence and discipline, given him a beautifully restored classic car, taken him to Okinawa, and remained one of the only positive influences in his life since his move from New Jersey to California...is abandoned and shunned for Daniel's pride." That sounds right on target to me. What disturbs me is that all the other reviewers loved it! Yuck! When is Daniel going to start opening doors for Mr. Miyagi? And why does Mr. Miyagi keep teaching such a jerk? I know I disassociate myself from jerks like that. I give them a few chances, but I don't want to teach someone without any nobility of spirit. Teaching a jerk how to the play the guitar is not an injury to society; teaching him how to beat people up is. Yours in the arts, Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 13:34:35 -0400 (EDT) From: guesugi To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Competition Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In your opinion what is the most competitive geographic area of the US? Northeast, Southeast, Midwest, Northwest, Southwest or Texas? G --------------------------------------------------------------------------GET A JOB! CollegeClub.com can help you earn some cash and get career advice!CollegeClub.com makes college life even better. --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Eric" To: Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 22:28:42 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Well said Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Well said Mr. Clay, and thank you. The "RESPECT" angle is sometimes all to easy to forget when sitting behind the anonymity of a key board in an office or back room. To this I agree, if you smack me, the tendency is for me to smack you back. Then you ask me to respect you for smacking me in the first place, and all the while I'm still trying to figure out what started this in the first place. Maybe just a lack of respect. Eric < I believe it is common knowledge that you do not agree with us, and that is your prerogative. I do ask, however, that you, and other readers, extend to us the same respect that we are extending to you. > Best regards, Frank Clay --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Competition To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 14:35:34 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Glenn wrote: > In your opinion what is the most competitive geographic area of the US? > Northeast, Southeast, Midwest, Northwest, Southwest or Texas? > > G Competition in.?.?. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest