Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 12:14:05 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #256 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Perseverance (Rudy Timmerman) 2. RE: 6:30 am classes - a special kind of hell? (Kip McCormick) 3. Re: Memorial Day - Thanks Kip (Kip McCormick) 4. Re: Re: GM Duc Dang (TKDnorge) 5. Sacrificing for one's students (Burdick, Dakin R) 6. 6:30 am classes (J R Hilland) 7. staff (J R Hilland) 8. RE: Go Rin No Sho (Dunn, Danny J GARRISON) 9. Seminar review (ABurrese@aol.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 23:02:07 -0400 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Perseverance Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce writes: > When I attend an event and find that MY needs are not getting met,I > leave. However I have noticed that somehow I am criticized for leaving > early and not staying the course but the matter of my needs as a > teacher > AND student NOT getting addressed never gets talked about. Hello Bruce: You know that I have seen you work your butt off in one of my seminars, so I am one who does know that you CAN go the distance; however, I would like to point out that some of the nicest goals ever scored in the various games we watch have come in the dying seconds of the game. Leaving early might cause you to miss out on some gems that truly deserve staying for. In any case, spending time with good people has always been enough to make me stay:) FWIW. As I teach a seminar, I closely watch the people in the group to see if I am missing something they could use. After making a suggestion here or a nudge there, I seem to get the "feel" of the crowd. I take this feeling to heart as I go along, and my teaching methods may drastically change over the course of the seminar simply because of the (most often silent) feedback I get. By leaving, you would take away my opportunity to see what my shortcomings are, and I dare say you don't take away anything:( I hope with this little bit of info, you will find a reason to stick around next time. BTW, I did whatever I could in the other situation, but I knew nothing about you losing your job until much later. I suspect others also did not know, and I'd give them the benefit of the doubt. The DD crew is a good bunch for the most part, and I would think that most anyone on the DD would have done whatever they could had they known the entire scenario. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Kip McCormick" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] 6:30 am classes - a special kind of hell? Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 21:21:58 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Anthony- When I was running my school in Seoul, all of my students were military bubbas/bubbettes who were working late, hellish hours, so we decided to run the program from 0600-0730 in the morning. For me, I would take a hot shower beforehand and down a cup or two of coffee before class, then go do the class -- I lived a couple of miles from the school and rode my bike in. For the rest of the students, we'd spend about 15 minutes warming up doing long, slow stretching, then do a lot of easy falling/rolling to get the body warmed up, increasing the intensity after we had a slight sweat. After that, we'd be ready to rock no problems. The days I didn't do the falling/rolling piece, my guys were reluctant to throw down in class. I hate working out in the mornings, unfortunately that's the way I've had to do it the past 23 years in the military. We're all warped I think (James "I stared down more North Koreans in Panmunjom than Kim Jong Il" Morgan can agree!) Better living through caffeine. Sleep's a crutch, right?! Hope all is well. Kip Road Warrior traveling cross country and not knowing which timezone I'm in but glad to be back in the USA! >From: "A. Boyd" >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [The_Dojang] 6:30 am classes - a special kind of hell? >Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 20:23:43 -0400 (EDT) > > For the last few months I have been back to working out at 6:30 am. I did >this for the >first year I studied Haidong Gumdo, but not since. In those days, I was >stiff and >unyeilding all day long so I just didn't notice how hard it is to get the >body into >useful motion at that time of day. > Does anyone have any suggestions on how to deal with this and get the >most productive >use of my time and effort? Right now practice feels like that underwater >bar brawl scene >in Top Secret. > >===== >Anthony Boyd: Swordsman and English Teacher > www.stormpages.com/haidonggumdo > >______________________________________________________________________ >Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Kip McCormick" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Memorial Day - Thanks Kip Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 21:28:15 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Tom- You da man! Thanks to all vets and military members past and present who are defending our great freedoms, especially those who have made the ultimate sacrifice. If you see an overloaded Ford Expedition traveling cross country (West to East), three kids and a beautiful wife but pulling our hair out with the "are we there yet?, I have to go to the bathroom...and what is a Stuckey's Pecan Log?" that's me. Should be in NY by 23 June. Hope all is well gang. I've been off the net about 2 weeks and checking in periodically. See ya! Kip "Where Is WalleyWorld" McCormick >From: "Tom Stanfield" >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: >Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Memorial Day - Thanks Kip >Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 08:47:12 -0500 > >And a special thanks to guys like Kip (and other list memebers) who are >still in active service to our great nation or who have srved in the past. > >Tom Stanfield > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Ray Terry" >To: "The_Dojang" >Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2004 9:49 AM >Subject: [The_Dojang] Memorial Day > > > > Wishing all in the US a memoriable Memorial Day. > > > > Ray Terry > > rterry@idiom.com >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "TKDnorge" To: Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 13:34:12 +0200 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Re: GM Duc Dang Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > From: > To: > Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 19:55:11 -0400 > Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: GM Duc Dang > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > GM Duc Dang was my first master more than 35 years ago. > I just visited him a few months ago. He has a school in > Orange County, California. If you are interested I can find > his address and phone number for you. > He is one of the few 9th Dan ITF TKD in the US. > > Luc Nguyen Thanks for your reply I'm in Norway so it don't need the contact info, I'm just trying to get some info on Chang Hun Grandmasters and couldn't find anything on him. Do you know if he is still affliated with the ITF, and if so wich one? Aleksander --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 09:40:36 -0500 From: "Burdick, Dakin R" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Sacrificing for one's students Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Kevin Luttrell writes: Too many times I hear so called "teachers" talk about not taking students because of their lack of humility, respect, honesty, courtesy ect... They seem to focus on fighting only and not on what really counts. My reply: What really counts? Wouldn't that be their lack of humility, respect, honesty, courtesy, etc? If someone doesn't have those, and won't change after I have worked with them for a while, it is time to STOP training them. Maybe that will change their attitude. Maybe that will be the thing that gets them to change. Or maybe they'll go learn from someone else. Any of those is fine with me. One less guy that I have to hold myself responsible in this world! Don't tell me that martial arts builds character -- more often, it builds characters. I have seen enough instructors (let alone students!) end up in jail for child abuse, manslaughter, embezzlement, drug dealing, and the like, to know that if someone isn't changing inside, it's time to cut them loose. Kevin writes: I dont consider myself anything but a student, even though I've been teaching for over 10 years now and training for over 20. One thing I have learned as a student and as a teacher is that the teacher makes the student and as long as the student is willing to return and train, a good teacher continues to train him. A teacher never gives up as long as the student is willing to return for training. My reply: But that training will differ depending on the student. If the student is an ass, then physical training often won't change that. So I stop teaching the person to fight and start teaching him how to live. Generally, they go away on their own at that point! Kevin writes: How can a teacher instill traits such as mentioned above if he is not willing to sacrifice himself for his student? My reply: As I said, sooner or later the student has to start opening the door. Confucius said he would only reveal the first corner, the student had to turn over the other three for himself. Personal sacrifice is all well and good, but we all do that anyways! Martial arts hurts marriages, relationships with kids, and even our pocketbooks. It costs a lot, but we keep on doing it because we love it. Going out of our way for a jerk is not part of our responsibilities. There's enough good people out there that need that sacrifice more. Kevin writes: A student has a fair amount of respect and discipline just by returning to train with his instructor. My reply: No. I can think of one student in particular who is very nice to my face, wonderfully behaved, and when I leave the room he jacks everyone around and insults lower ranking or smaller students. He is an ass and he is gone. Period. He values my techniques. I don't value his attitude. And frankly, he's been dumped by every other instructor around here too. I dumped him three years ago. I gave him one more try and he proved my point. So, students, live up to your instructor's expectations. Try to build the traits that you AND they want to see. Evaluate yourself, your attitude, and the reason you are there to learn. Is it only to feed your own ego or is it going to be of benefit to society as well as yourself. Learning is a privilege, not a right. Unless, of course, you have enough money for those $1000 private lessons! lol Yours in the arts, Dakin Burdick dakinburdick@yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 10:03:46 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] 6:30 am classes Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Anthony: For several years I taught a 6:30 am hapkido class. The average student age for that class was around 40. It only took me a few weeks to get used to the idea of working out before the birds got up. But then I began to enjoy it. Never had any problems with it. I gave it up after a few years as after the last class of the day at 9pm, I was worn out. But maybe your muscles memory is just not awake yet. :) Jere R. Hilland www.HapkidoSelfDefense.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 10:03:44 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] staff Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Don: In Korean it is called a bong. The long staff in Japanese is called a bo. Calling it a bo staff, is like saying staff staff. With that said, we use the 1" x 5' straight staff offered by century and have used them for about 25 years. Ray had mentioned the Japanese jo. This is actually a very practical weapon and is much shorter that the big 6' staff. Jere R. Hilland www.HapkidoSelfDefense.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Dunn, Danny J GARRISON" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 10:04:51 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Go Rin No Sho Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jeffrey, I like Cleary's translation. It is a translation. Kauffman and to a certain extent Harris (I think, I am doing this from memory without looking at the actual books) are actually interpretations, and not translations, especially Kauffman. I found Kuaffmans interpretation interesting, though I personally thought he missed several important points. I can't be sure, but I think the Nippon Corp may be an interpretation made for use in business, there are several of those. A word of caution, I have found that it takes reading and study of the text a number of times over a long period to really begin understanding. Also, the amount of experience you have in your training will play a factor. I would also suggest considering studying The Art of War along with A Book of 5 Rings. The 3 translations I would suggest you use together are Cleary, Griffith and Wing. Wing is very esoteric and attempts to distance the meanings from war, but his translation is poetic and his commentary by chapter is insightful, and he does explain the reasoning for his interpretation better than anyone else. Cleary is a very close translation but without being so poetic. Griffith was a military officer and taught at West Point, so his translation is more toward warfare in the military. Good luck. Danny Dunn Message: 10 From: "jeffrey kiral" To: Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 14:17:27 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] 5 rings Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net i am beginning to study the Gorin No Sho and i was wondering if anyone on this list has a particular translation/version that they think is best and why? i have read stephen kaufman's, victor harris's, and one by the nipon corp., though i havent read thomas cleary's translation yet...are there others that have merit? --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2004 12:40:24 -0400 From: ABurrese@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Seminar review Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Review of recent seminar in Boise, ID. http://www.themartialist.com/0404/burrese.htm --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. 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