Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 03:01:51 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #283 - 5 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. TakeDowns (Nathan Miller) 2. RE: Takedowns... (Eric Walker) 3. RE: TakeDowns (Rick Clark) 4. Re: A "Cleary" Thank You (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) 5. Re: Takedowns (bsims@midwesthapkido.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 21:41:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Nathan Miller To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] TakeDowns Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I agree with Craig here - find a wrestling coach. Nothing fancy - just pure throwing people around, and pretty damn effective ways to do so. My only advice would be, if you're planning on throwing someone, to be ready to get hit. It will happen - you're stepping into their space, grabbing them, they'll fight back. You may not get hit - but be ready. If all you want to do is hold someone and wait, the best position is on the ground, you on top, your chest on their back. This minimizes their weapons (hands and feet) and allows you to use your weight to its optimum potential, and forces them to work harder to get into a more advantageous position. Of course, this supposes a one-on-one confrontation, with none of his buddies involved. Anyway, that's my take. Nathan --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Eric Walker" To: Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 08:12:48 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Takedowns... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] TakeDowns Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 09:26:34 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Tony, > From: Tony McDonald [mailto:TZappen15@msn.com] > you cant win every fight using grapples, sometimes you just have to run > away This is a statement you might want to think about, I have. I was born in 1948 so I am not as young as I once was :-) I have a heart problem (ventricular tachacardia and have an implanted defibrillator) so for me to turn and run from a fight might not be in my best interest. A run with the potential self defense situation could push me in to an aberrant heart rhythm and the implanted device could deliver a shock, and that knocks me on my butt. Compare it to being kicked in your chest, it's not fun - but it has kept me alive. Now I have thought about reasons not to run from a fight, and while thinking about this over the past few years MY advice to others has changed as well. If possible "retreat" from a situation but not by running, turning your back, or making an exit that would present an opening to your opponent. If you run and are not in better shape than your opponent you will end up winded, tired, and perhaps in worse condition than your opponent. You then stand at a disadvantage "IF" you are then forced to defend yourself. If it's a matter of a strategic move to another location that is to my advantage then that's another story. But . . . . . . I believe it's in my best interest to face a situation with the maximum amount of stamina and "wind" if attacked. Not to end up in a foot race only to find that I lose the race and then have to engage in a self defense scenario then I am at a greater disadvantage at that moment than I was a few minutes before. Rick Clark www.ao-denkou-kai.org --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 09:52:46 -0500 (CDT) From: To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: A "Cleary" Thank You Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Danny: Thanks for the info. I will be making a trip to the bookstore to use my (grand)Fathers Day gift cert. BTW: CODE OF THE SAMURAI is another Cleary work whose writing is straight-forward and devoid of romance. Another nice read. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 10:12:41 -0500 (CDT) From: To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Takedowns Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Rick: ".....I hate to disagree with someone who has been in agreement with me up to this time. I would argue that I should work a "bit" harder than my attacker. As an example if I am applying a lock and we both exert the same amount of force then there is a deadlock. If they can exert a bit more force they escape from a technique. If I exert a bit more force then the lock stays in place and creates pain....." No-No. We are STILL in agreement. I only meant that I want to fight "smarter" than my opponent. For instance, in a conflict I COULD use an Arm-bar and try to restrain him. It would take X amount of energy and maybe the guy would resist with X+ energy. Now I have to use X++ energy and we have a wrestling match. By comparison, if a person attacks I am not above using an elbow break and stopping the fight right there. I have no intention of wrestling with this guy. 10 pounds of pressure and I have made my point. To underscore this let me say that the most "dangerous" people in my classes are the new students. I find this especially among the girls who may have been shown a little self-defense and think they can come into the Hapkido class and use their partners who have not had such experience as training dummies. The case is usually that they have no appreciation of what discomfort all the twiasting and turning can cause another person. I stayed after class with one such individual the other night and even after carefully exposing her to some "discomfort" all she figured was that my examples were simply permission to use more muscle --- on me! Another example is working with folks at a seminar and having my partner think that because I am not tearing him up with a technique that I DON'T have the ability to do that. I don't prove anything to my partner by repeatedly maxing him out in pain compliance except that I have no respect for him as a partner and will hurt him if I feel like it for my own satisfaction. I still hold that if our friend wants to learn some fast takedowns the HS wrestling coach is the person to see. Retrraint techniques to me are a bit like "padlocks" in the typical world setting-- to help keep honest people honest. A guy who doesn't get the message from a restraint that I am trying to help him not make a fool of himself--- in spite of himself---simply gets the natural consequences of his non-compliance. That was the point of my "not working harder" comment. Hope this makes sense. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest