Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 12:05:13 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #297 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Danny Dunn on Shaolin forms (George Peters) 2. Re: Not ITF Tuls (Klaus Steinberger) 3. One step sparring (E. Montgomery) 4. Re: Merger of ITF & WTF (Tkdsid@aol.com) 5. Re: Unified TKD WTF & ITF (Jye nigma) 6. One Step Sparring (Keith Shaw) 7. Blocking Drills (Woodard Brian (ChW/TEF8)) 8. Re: Blocking Drills (Jye nigma) 9. Re: Force (Jye nigma) 10. Re: One step sparring (Jye nigma) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "George Peters" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 02:01:57 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Danny Dunn on Shaolin forms Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Good Sir, Enjoyed what you had to say on the form you wrote about, do not know about the caution on Shaolin forms though, since TSD is 40% from China (30% Shaolin Long Fist and Tai Chi, 10%Southern Hung Gar). Respectfully, George _________________________________________________________________ MSN Movies - Trailers, showtimes, DVD's, and the latest news from Hollywood! http://movies.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200509ave/direct/01/ --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 08:19:12 +0200 From: Klaus Steinberger Organization: Maier-Leibnitz Labor To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Not ITF Tuls Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello, > I looked at this site and these patterns resemble ITF Tuls but they are not performed like ITF Tuls and a lot of the chambers are wrong and even some of the moves are not performed in the same way. They look more like Karata than Taekwon-Do. You are correct, it is not ITF Tul, we never said that it is TUL. Our reference for Hyong practice is the older version of Gen. Choi Hong Hi's encyclopedia (the one which is just one relatively small book with an black binder). In this version of Gen. Choi's encyclopedia you will find only 20 Hyong's (they were called Hyong these times, and we call them Hyong now). Also you will find in this book the Pinan forms, like Bassai and Naihanchi, which will you remind much more to Karate. I think this is mentioned on this site (ok, just in german language), it is the way we think Taekwon Do should be, others may have a different opinion. "All roads lead to Rome" as an byword says. There are many ways to mastership > http://www.hyong.net/ Sincerly, Klaus Steinberger, 4th Dan -- Klaus Steinberger Maier-Leibnitz Labor Phone: (+49 89)289 14287 Am Coulombwall 6, D-85748 Garching, Germany FAX: (+49 89)289 14280 EMail: Klaus.Steinberger@Physik.Uni-Muenchen.DE URL: http://www.physik.uni-muenchen.de/~k2/ In a world without Walls and Fences, who needs Windows and Gates --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 05:58:04 -0700 (PDT) From: "E. Montgomery" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] One step sparring Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Long time lurker - first time reply. I find one steps valuable simply because they teach students to use combinations in sparring. This is especially true of students who don't think they can do multiple combinations or kicks, but can do one steps. I tell them, try doing number 12 etc. The light bulb comes on and they realize they have been practicing multiple combinations for months or years as the case may be. My .2 cents. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Tkdsid@aol.com Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 09:34:23 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Merger of ITF & WTF Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The writer makes some very good sense especially for someone new to taekwondo. I suspect that when (not if) a merger takes place, it will incorporate some unique features. First, I feel that there will be no issue regarding the changing of forms. If both sides are intelligent, they will realize the the forms used are archaic by todays standards. Kimose (horseback) stances were predicated on attacks while horseback. Many hand moves are based on sword adaptations. A new form system should be created stressing strength, self-defense and effective anti terrorist strategies. More Krav Maga approaches are called for. As to sports and classical approaches...why not two divisions?? But more important is this. When a merger takes place there will inevidably be organizational stresses that will create friction that may lead to a resurgence in the old kwan system. There really is no incentive for WTF to merge other than as a political vehicle for the reunification of Korea which in itself is a noble pursuit. As to recognizing each others dans...why not? The start should be cooperative ventures such as a University program that is worldwide and teaches ALL forms of martial arts in a research center. More than likely however, the WTF will reorganize effectively under its new president and swallow up ITF. What about Soo Bahk Do, Yudo and Hapkido, are they to be part of a new organization? Sid Rubinfeld --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 06:39:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Unified TKD WTF & ITF To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net What is the benefit of ITF BB getting Kukkiwon certs? I thought ITF students competited in more tournaments like points AND full contact? Also why leave out forms? Jye Neil Burton wrote: Before I add my tuppence worth please let me say that I am a relative newcomer to TKD (3rd Gup ITF).... Pros: ITF BBs get Kukkiwon certs ITF students compete in olympics ITF students have a larger base for competitions --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Keith Shaw" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 08:51:48 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] One Step Sparring Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net We practice one step sparring in our dojang as well as tournament and continuous sparring. The one step sparring is begun at white belt level, with basic blocks and counters. At higher colored and BB levels, blocks, kicks, counters, throws are all fair game. It helps with reaction time, technique and conditioning. Keith Shaw 1st Dan, Kun Gek Do -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 08:56:33 -0500 From: "Woodard Brian (ChW/TEF8)" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Blocking Drills Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> In my old dojang we had a "black belts only" drill that was similar to the above. I was a lucky brown belt who got to practice this. The attacking person would throw full power punches to the solarplexes sp? and head. (the punches would have full extension but would be slightly short of contact since no protective gear was worn) The defensive person would then block the punch with full power as the drill continues the speed of the punches is increased. This drill would leave you with some pretty good lumps on the blocking forearms. (great conditioning but you will want to wear long sleeves to work!) If you used knife hand blocks the lumps would be on the punchers arms. I really miss those drills...... Brian Woodard --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 07:49:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Blocking Drills To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net My blocking drills comes in 3 parts. 1st evading, 2nd parrying, 3rd the actual combination of the 1st 2 combined with the blocking. evading with only the smallest amount of movements. this combined with blocking alone will get one ready for blocking but with there movements they are small not really big movements. a drill is to have hands placed on hips (I used natural postures) or even hands up like someone has a gun pointed at you, and you someone begins throwing strikes, kicks, etc at you. In the most basic drill it's the basic punches, where you simply move your torso to get you out of the way of the attack. This is a minimum amount of movement to evade. The level would be using footwork based on the 6 point star model, which is basically an asterik on the floor and the person keeps one foot on the center of the arterik but moves the other foot to only the six points on the asterik. A step up from that is to have to person only move on the points and center position. this is all to evade. so part 1 deals with movement, minimum and maximum. part 2 parrying utilizes the movements of Part I with you body parts to deflect uncoming attacks. The defender uses minimum movements from part 1 and some basic deflection tactics. then the step up is to use the maximum movements with more deflection tactics *these will not be direct blocks. they're things like a palm push, a palm up parry, etc. where you let the opponent's power continue on without directly stopping it. then the 3rd part is the actual blocking with the movements or part 1 and the parrying of part 2. The person already has the movements, footwork, and parrying tactics down, and the blovking is at this point natural. How does parrying help develop blocking? they're pretty much done similarly but blocking stops the person's energy ; it meets force with force, where as a parry allows their energy to keep going because it is not stopped it is simply deflected. like you throw a rock at a wall...boom! it comes to a stop, maybe it bounces of the wall but the direction in which you threw it stops. You throw a rock at a ramp and it is deflected, it is still traveling in a slightly different direction depending on the angle of the ramp or wedge. So what does all that stuff mean? it means a block can transistion into a parry. Like a one two punch, block one parry the next. They are so closely related that they can bleed into the other.as smooth as a babies bottom. Jye "Woodard Brian (ChW/TEF8)" wrote In my old dojang we had a "black belts only" drill that was similar to the above. I was a lucky brown belt who got to practice this. The attacking person would throw full power punches to the solarplexes sp? and head. (the punches would have full extension but would be slightly short of contact since no protective gear was worn) The defensive person would then block the punch with full power as the drill continues the speed of the punches is increased. This drill would leave you with some pretty good lumps on the blocking forearms. (great conditioning but you will want to wear long sleeves to work!) If you used knife hand blocks the lumps would be on the punchers arms. I really miss those drills...... Brian Woodard _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 08:00:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Force To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net for myself I choose external and internal. Even internal styles have to develop their external variables. the slow movements of T' ai Ch'i Chuan still enhance muscle strength, and the 'snap' that is heard from a T'ai Ch'i Chuan practitioner's strikes still uses some external force but that internal power is what to look out for. It's best to have a full arsenal because different opponents will require different weapons. *I once had a friendly competition with a guy I met at my first tournament. He studied some form of pheonix eye, but his speed, accuracy was incredible! I stopped him with a snake fist strike to the solar plexeus. The strike didn't use force (external) yes there was some chi in the strike but not enough to do damage but enough to stop him. now if he had been a ken shamrock type I would have used physical force and chi to strike him, because I'd want the physical portion to knot up his muscle, and the chi to penetrate deeply to cause damage. So different forces for different targets. Jye Randall Sexton wrote: "I don't want to get into a battle of strength vs. strength. In fact I do want to use the minimal force possible in all situations." As a point of comparision or perhaps something to work toward, I just looked at a video clip last night of Tai Chi legend Ma Yueh-Liang (1901-1998) taking on volunteers from a crowd in China for push-hands exercise. This was at 92 years of age and he sent people flying with movements that were hard to detect. Hard to choose here...force against force or "whoops, why you keep falling down?" Randall Sexton www.LaughingHara.com _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 08:07:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] One step sparring To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I only see one steps as a way to show how the techniques thy've learned can be applied. I just can see it helping in sparring. Sparring to me is something you have to learn by trial and error. I didn't learn how to spar because I knew how to fight so it was natural to me. But to newcomers, I believe a newcomer could use 1 steps more for self defense apps then sparring. Jye "E. Montgomery" wrote: Long time lurker - first time reply. I find one steps valuable simply because they teach students to use combinations in sparring. This is especially true of students who don't think they can do multiple combinations or kicks, but can do one steps. I tell them, try doing number 12 etc. The light bulb comes on and they realize they have been practicing multiple combinations for months or years as the case may be. My .2 cents. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out! --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest