Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 17:45:10 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #341 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Dojo Dating (Stickfighter87@aol.com) 2. Re: dating (Michael Whalen) 3. Re: Dochang Dating (Bruce Sims) 4. RE: Dojo Dating (Rick Clark) 5. dating (Charles Richards) 6. RE: dating (Denise) 7. Re: Dojo Dating (Eric VanSickle) 8. RE: dating (Jeremy Anderson) 9. Chuck Norris 8th Dan?? (Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy) 10. RE: Visualisation techniques (PETER.MCDONALDSMITH@london-fire.gov.uk) 11. RE: dating (Mr. V) 12. dojang dating (Ted Dana) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Stickfighter87@aol.com Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 23:48:13 EDT Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Dojo Dating To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I think its defenitly should be a questionable situation. There should be a complete professional relationship between students and teachers alike. I however on the other hand know several teachers who have met there significan't others in karate class. I can't say I agree but as long as there is no biased ness and proffessional relationship in the class I could care less what goes on outside of it. just my opinion. Cory [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of Surfing .jpg] --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Michael Whalen" To: "dojang digest" Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 07:40:23 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: dating Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > What's your opinion on dating between students> their business, < teachers,> their business < and between students and teachers?> very bad idea.... michael whalen KSWnut --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 06:15:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Dochang Dating Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dating between teacher and student? Don't do it. Dating between student and teacher? Don't do it. Dating between students? Don't do it. Dating between teachers? Don't do it. Relationships in and among students and teachers are a sacred trust the violation of which forever alters the nature of the school and its participants. Just as most KMA students sooner or later wonder "does this stuff really work" so do most dating school members ask themselves "whats it going to hurt?" The sad fact is that no matter how many times people are advised not to do this the response is not unlike telling teenagers to ignore THEIR hormones. And after the issues of favoritism, physical contact observed around the school or classroom, bruised feelings, jealousy or betrayal have taken their toll, exactly who is going to clean-up that mess? Just don't do it. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Rick Clark" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Dojo Dating Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 08:49:29 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have always opposed such relationships. When one person breaks up with the other you tend to lose a student. However on a personal note I did date a student once and ended up marring her, we have now been married since 1976 :-) Rick Clark "Illegitimis non carborundum." ("Don't let the bastards grind you down.") - Gen. Joseph Stilwell www.ao-denkou-kai.org > -----Original Message----- > From: Luchadore4life@aol.com [mailto:Luchadore4life@aol.com] > Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:14 PM > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [The_Dojang] Dojo Dating > > What's your opinion on dating between students, teachers, and > between > students and teachers? > Luchadore4life > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 07:28:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] dating Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I read " What's your opinion on dating between students, teachers, and between students and teachers?" Unless it ends in marriage it's usually not good for the school. Student dates student leads to one student dropping out or feeling awkward around the other student. Get's even more complicated if one is substantially senior to the other. Instructor dates student generally viewed as a potential for favoritism by all other students even if not true, and even if they never say it. Of course going overboard to discourage it leaves a very unfriendly atmosphere so balance in all things, neh? Yours in Jung Do, Charles Richards www.mojakwan.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Denise" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] dating Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 12:21:15 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The question-- " What's your opinion on dating between students, teachers, and between students and teachers?" Cory said-- "I think its definitely . . . a questionable situation. There should be a complete professional relationship between students and teachers alike. I however on the other hand know several teachers who have met there significant others in karate class. I can't say I agree but as long as there is no biased ness and professional relationship in the class I could care less what goes on outside of it. . . ." Master Richards' reply-- ". . . Of course going overboard to discourage it leaves a very unfriendly atmosphere so balance in all things, neh?" I'd like to agree with both of the above and take the question a step further. It is ultimately the responsibility of the instructor to establish and maintain a dojang culture of respect and discipline. Once one crosses the threshold into the dojang, the relationships between the students are those of martial artists, not siblings, parent/child, spouses, best buddies, feuding neighbors, etc. Each person has his/her "place" in the dojang community and although the training is friendly, one needs to see one's partner as just that, a partner -- someone with a similar purpose. Thus, the issue is less about students dating than it is about personal relationships that exist outside the dojang that can be brought into the dojang. It is the responsibility of the instructor ("Chief," "Head," "Supervising," whatever -- i.e., the LEADER) to set the tone and model the expected behavior. Separating our emotions from our purpose is foundational in training. It's not easy, but it is necessary to internalize the "clear thought" one strives to possess in a crisis. So, whatever the relationships were, are, or become, if the culture in your dojang expects that they are "left at the door," there are no guarantees, but there is is less likelihood of conflicts within the school. Just my thoughts . . . Denise --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Eric VanSickle" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Dojo Dating Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 12:24:55 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce Lee dated and married one of his students at his original studio, Linda. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Clark" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 8:49 AM Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Dojo Dating > I have always opposed such relationships. When one person breaks up with > the other you tend to lose a student. However on a personal note I did date > a student once and ended up marring her, we have now been married since 1976 > :-) > > > Rick Clark > > > > "Illegitimis non carborundum." ("Don't let the bastards grind you down.") - > Gen. Joseph Stilwell > > > > www.ao-denkou-kai.org > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Luchadore4life@aol.com [mailto:Luchadore4life@aol.com] > > Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 9:14 PM > > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > Subject: [The_Dojang] Dojo Dating > > > > What's your opinion on dating between students, teachers, and > > between > > students and teachers? > > Luchadore4life > > _______________________________________________ > > The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members > > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > > Standard disclaimers apply > > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 11:12:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeremy Anderson Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] dating To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net If one is forbidden from dating another student, what happens when a dating couple decide to take lessons together? Will they be required to end the relationship before they can join? What about a married couple? My point is, whether a relationship forms in or out of the dojang, you can't control people's relational and emotional lives. They are going to make friends, enemies, and even lovers of their fellow students whether you want them to or not. All you can do is hope that they handle said relationships with maturity and do your best to foster a mature atmosphere within the dojang. What you can control as an instructor is their behavior (to a certain extent, anyway) within the confines of class. Forbidding public displays of affection in class is reasonable, but forbidding them from falling in love or expressing that love outside the dojang? Totally unenforcable and not realistic at all. Jeremy Anderson. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 15:28:27 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Chuck Norris 8th Dan?? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I was just browsing through Master Choi Jung Hwa's ITF website and saw where Chuck Norris is a registered 8th Dan with the ITF.. Is this the same Chuck Norris we all know from movies, etc?? If so, this blows my mind as I was under the impression he was purely a Tang Soo Do guy. Does anyone have any info on this? Thanks. James Morgan GTKDA --__--__-- Message: 10 From: PETER.MCDONALDSMITH@london-fire.gov.uk To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Visualisation techniques Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 21:18:12 +0100 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net visualisation is a powerful tool. in visualisation you see in pictures what you what to achieve. for example in the case of nerves. nerves can fill you with self doubt. visualising yourself doing well and achieving your goal are the first steps in eradicating self doubt. if you get the chance get hold of a book called 7 HABITS OF HIGHLY EFFECTIVE PEOPLE. I recommend it highly, especially the story of VICTOR FRANKL and the "last of the human freedoms" all the best. -----Original Message----- From: Pat Montini [mailto:pizzadp@earthlink.net] Sent: 04 August 2004 12:41 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Visualization techniques I appreciate the sharing of info on combating nerves. It seems as though many have responded to this by using visualization. Can anyone explain more on this technique? Thanks, Pat [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type text/x-vcard which had a name of pizzadp.vcf] _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang **************************************************************************** SMOKE ALARMS SAVE LIVES Go to London Fire at www.london-fire.gov.uk/firesafety This email is confidential to the addressee only. If you do not believe that you are the intended addressee, do not use, pass on or copy it in any way. If you have received it in error, please delete it immediately and telephone the number given, reversing the charges if necessary. --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Mr. V" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] dating Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 15:00:19 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have worked in professional environments for long time now and one thing that has always been clear to me is don't date in the office. Don't date you subordinates and absolutely don't date a customer. -----Original Message----- From: Jeremy Anderson [mailto:jeremy_at_home@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 11:12 AM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] dating If one is forbidden from dating another student, what happens when a dating couple decide to take lessons together? Will they be required to end the relationship before they can join? What about a married couple? My point is, whether a relationship forms in or out of the dojang, you can't control people's relational and emotional lives. They are going to make friends, enemies, and even lovers of their fellow students whether you want them to or not. All you can do is hope that they handle said relationships with maturity and do your best to foster a mature atmosphere within the dojang. What you can control as an instructor is their behavior (to a certain extent, anyway) within the confines of class. Forbidding public displays of affection in class is reasonable, but forbidding them from falling in love or expressing that love outside the dojang? Totally unenforcable and not realistic at all. Jeremy Anderson. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Ted Dana" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 08:43:03 +0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] dojang dating Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I reckon it's the same as dating at work, it should really be avoided at all costs. especially between students and teachers! It really compromises the discipline in class if you have an instructor who is dating a student. Instructors dating each other can still compromise their proffesionalism in the dojang, their workplace. Anyway, I'm coming up short of ideas to explain my strong viewpoint, so if anyone has arguments in favor of dating in the dojang, post them to get my creative juices flowing! :) c'ya guys, Ted p.s. please be patient if I don't respond right away, I'm on the other side of the world! (AUS) _________________________________________________________________ Find love today with ninemsn personals. Click here: http://ninemsn.match.com?referrer=hotmailtagline --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest