Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 17:00:03 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #343 - 14 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1600 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. (no subject) (Master Lugo) 2. Dojang Dating (Dennis McHenry) 3. Chuck Norris 8th Dan?? ( (Robert Martin) 4. Re: Dating in the Dochang (Bruce Sims) 5. Re: RE: Dojo/Dojang Dating (Patrick Baeder) 6. RE: Chuck Norris 8th Dan?? (TKDnorge) 7. Re: Dojang Dating (Richard Zaruba) 8. Mixed Martial Arts Schools (Boudreau, Phillip) 9. Dating MA Students (kevin_janisse@comcast.net) 10. TKD on UK TV (Ray Terry) 11. Punching the Dragon (Ray Terry) 12. Cabales seminars (Eddie Urbistondo) 13. Re: Cabales seminars (Ray Terry) 14. Dojang Dating (Yarchak, Mary Kay) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: 11 Aug 2004 03:47:44 -0000 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: "Master Lugo" Subject: [The_Dojang] (no subject) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net My old instructor dated a student from class, the relationship created strains between other instructors. Ultimately there was a break-up with words exchanged and possible lawsuit. Consequently they sold the school and ran to the hills. DON’T DO IT!!! Lugo --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Dennis McHenry" Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 04:03:31 GMT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Dojang Dating Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net You could carry the concept a bit further - What about training with someone you love, and it doesn't necessarily mean a person you are dating, but could be a son or daughter, mother or father and even a sibling besides your significant other. Could even be a best friend. There's all kinds of relationships we have to deal with both inside and outside the dojang. I get to where I care very much about my students. I even get to where I call my young students "my kids" (just like kids, you can get all kinds of emotions from love and pride to extreme frustration :-) I guess it's all in how you deal with it. Mac ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Robert Martin" To: Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 22:24:29 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Chuck Norris 8th Dan?? ( Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Before he passed away, Choi Hong Hi gave three, unumbered ITF 8th Dan certificates to Chuk Norris, Ball Wall and one other (forgot who now). These were in recognition for their contributions to the martial arts and to try to get these gentleman to support his International Martial Arts Games. (The ITF group run by North Korea will hold the first of these games this year. Visit www.internationataekwon-dofederation.com for details.) Robert Martin > > Message: 9 > From: "Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy" > To: "Dojang Digest" > Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 15:28:27 -0400 > Subject: [The_Dojang] Chuck Norris 8th Dan?? > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > I was just browsing through Master Choi Jung Hwa's ITF website and saw where > Chuck Norris is a registered 8th Dan with the ITF.. > Is this the same Chuck Norris we all know from movies, etc?? If so, this > blows my mind as I was under the impression he was purely a Tang Soo Do guy. > Does anyone have any info on this? > > Thanks. > > James Morgan > GTKDA --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 05:14:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Dating in the Dochang Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear D: ".....On the other hand, martial arts is my biggest interest and I want a girl I can spar and train with. Where else am I going to find one besides at this or another dojang?....." Then IMVVHO I believe that you have some tough decisions to make. Developing a relationship with someone is not a laundry-list of what YOU want. And, even if it were, I guarentee that list would (and will) change with time and circumstances. As a teacher of college-age students I get more than a few who come through my classes wanting to see what Hapkido is "like". No problem there except that they are doing the same thing in a great many areas of their lives. They want to see what college is "like". They want to see what dating, sex, drinking, smoking etc, etc, is "like". Well and good. They are at that stage of their lives. What they need to hear loud and clear is that they may not bring all that experimental chaos into the classes I teach. The students who come to my classes want to learn about themselves and the venue they have selected is Hapkido. They need to know that they will be able to pursue that learning without getting caught-up in dating head-games which can only muddy-up the learning waters. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Patrick Baeder Organization: Auburn Academy of Martial Arts, LLC To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] RE: Dojo/Dojang Dating Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 8:23:29 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I read "What about instructors dating the mother or father of one of their students?" Yeah...I married her, both of her children are now black belts, we have two new(er) daughters and we have been married for 6 years. Although, what worked for me may not work for everyone else. Patrick Baeder From: "Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy" Date: 2004/08/10 Tue PM 09:34:11 EDT To: "Dojang Digest" Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Dojo/Dojang Dating I'd like to ask one further question on this subject. What about instructors dating the mother or father of one of their students? You know, the good lookin' single mom who faithfully brings little Sally to every class and stays to watch......her daughter AND you... Just wondering what everyone thought of that situation. JM _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1600 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "TKDnorge" To: Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:51:05 +0200 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Chuck Norris 8th Dan?? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thats an honorary degree given to him for his contribution to martial arts in general --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 09:02:33 -0500 From: Richard Zaruba To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Dojang Dating Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net This is going to sound like a cop out on the dating in the dojang but I figure I might as well contribute my two cents. While in general, it is a very bad idea for an instructor to date a student, it can happen. As long as the instructor takes the proper steps to insure impartiality in the dojang and there is no special treatment. These might include having a different instructor grade and test the student, and most definitely maintaining a proper code of conduct in the school itself. I would suggest the same standards be applied to an instructor dating a parent. As for telling students they can not date, that is overstepping your bounds. I do not allow students to use my school as a singles club, but I do not have the right to dictate what they do in there private life. I do however make it clear to all students any conflicts are to be left at the door. I was the Best Man at a Wedding where a very good friend married one of his students. They are very happy and have a little boy now after about five years. I was the one he asked to test his wife both before they were married and now to prevent any conflicts. It would be great to say this is a black and white issue but it isn't. I don't agree with going bed hoping with your students as has happened in a small number of schools, or cheating on your spouse with a student as has also happened. But to have a serious relationship with a student can be accepted if the proper guidelines are followed so that it does not disrupt the school. Just my two cents, Richard Zaruba ____________________________________________________________________________ Richard Zaruba, PSBN Chief Instructor/ Owner Kuk Sool Won Family Martial Arts Center 2500-D South Columbia Road Grand Forks, ND 58201 Http://www.ksw-nd.com/ richard@ksw-nd.com Sch: (701) 775-7088 --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 13:50:38 -0400 From: "Boudreau, Phillip" To: "Martial Arts Mail List \(E-mail\)" Subject: [The_Dojang] Mixed Martial Arts Schools Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Good day to all, I have been a long time reader and observer of the DD. I now have an opportunity to gather some valuable feedback from some of the many DD subscribers. I would like to know what kind of experiences people have had in schools who offer several different kinds of martial arts. What kind of relationship have you had as an instructor with the other instructors in other disciplines. What kind of conflicts have you had and what advice would you give to someone who is thinking of joining an organization where Japanese, Korean, Chinease, and Brazilian martial arts will be taught? Respectfully yours, Phillip Boudreau --__--__-- Message: 9 From: kevin_janisse@comcast.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 21:02:29 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Dating MA Students Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello Master West, "By the way, my wife (who was the meanest woman in all HapkiDo) was NOT my student when we began our relationship.....J. R. West" I agree with you about dating students and I also share the experience of being married to a "Mean - In a good way - HapKiDo woman of which we also began our relationship before she became involved in the MA. Similar issues have occurred in the business world of office politics where it only takes a bad breakup to destroy a good career. Though not all relationships result in this, I must concur, it is better not to take the chance. Hope you have a great turnout on Aug 27th! Your weapons seminar with Dr. Kimm in November looks like way too much fun. Who should I pray for? Please remember me on the 21st (or should I say in memory of)! Sincerely, Kevin Janisse --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:08:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] TKD on UK TV Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Forwarding. UK FYI.. For those in the UK wanting to watch the takwondo at the Olympics, it's only on the last four days of the games, and only available to Sky Digital viewers. Thursday 26th August, 16:45-18:00 on BBC Interactive 4 (Press Red and select the fourth option to watch) Friday 27th August, 16:45-18:30 on BBC Interactive 5, and also 16:30-17:45 on British Eurosport Saturday 28th August, 16:00-19:00 on BBC Interactive 3, and also 15:45-17:45 on British Eurosport Sunday 29th August, 06:00-08:30 and then 12:30-17:30 on BBC Interactive 3. And that's yer lot. Those in the UK watching on terrestrial BBC1 and 2... are out of luck. --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:45:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Punching the Dragon Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Was watching Enter the Dragon the other evening. Yes, again... One of the early scenes in this 1973 movie has Jim Kelly visiting a Kenpo Karate school during a workout. The class is doing single, double (and triple?) middle punches from the horse stance. Kihaps a plenty. Reminded me of a typical TSD and/or TKD class of this same time period. Standing there in the horse stance punching away was boring but it did serve a purpose. The legs got stronger and the punches were well grooved into muscle memory. The question... who among you still teach/train this way? Why? Why not? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Eddie Urbistondo" To: Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:43:14 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Cabales seminars Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Will there be any Cabales seminars in California coming up? Eddie Urbistondo --__--__-- Message: 13 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Cabales seminars To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:41:44 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Will there be any Cabales seminars in California coming up? Eddie Urbistondo Vincent teaches every week in California, Stockton, CA. But try reaching him via acse@cabales.com for info. Their website cabales.com is down right now, but the email addr may work. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 14 Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 20:21:50 -0400 From: "Yarchak, Mary Kay" To: "Dojang Digest" Subject: [The_Dojang] Dojang Dating Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net On dojang dating, like most things where humans are involved, I don't think the same answer works in all situations. In general, I agree that few things can make a bigger mess in a group than a failed relationship between 2 people who continue to be a part of that group -- whether at work, in the dojang, or in any other sport or activity. I also agree that relationships between levels tend to create the most churn and often create churn even if the relationship doesn't fail because of the perceived favoritism issue. Please know that I mean no disrespect to the several Masters on this list who have posted to the contrary. However, I'd like to share an alternate story: My instructor's now fiancée' joined our dojang when I was 8th gup; they did not know each other when she joined us. She and I have come up through the ranks together since; we will soon test for e-dan. During the years, I never saw anything resembling favoritism -- she is clearly an excellent martial artist so it would not be easy for anyone to scream 'foul' in any case -- and they maintained strictly traditional/professional behavior in the dojang. They are so 'good together' as couple that I can't imagine them not being with each other. Yeah, maybe I'm just a sucker for that kind of thing, but in this case, I really think that the benefits did outweigh the risks. Just from my personal standpoint, my KMA journey would not have been nearly as rewarding without either one of them. Just one snapshot from the other side. Yes, I've been around long enough to know that the likelihood of an eventual mess is definitely much higher than the converse but, if the participants in the relationship show some of that respect, restraint, and discipline we MA's are always striving for, it's not inevitable. MK --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest