Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 03:01:50 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #371 - 4 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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RE: dan vs.don (Howard Spivey) 2. RE: "The Holy Grail" Correction (Jared Circle) 3. Tang Soo Do Forms (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 4. Re: Tang Soo Do Forms (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Howard Spivey" To: Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2004 09:45:31 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: dan vs.don Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net i just had a look at a dan rank certificate from our association in korea (jungkikwan). at the top of the certificate are the 4 korean words "gong in dan juhng" (not sure of the meaning). it looks like it's "dan" in korean. the korean vowel in this word ("dan") is pronounced like the a in the english word "water". hope this helps... Message: 4 Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 09:16:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Spiller To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] D-A-N vs. D-O-N Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Also, what 5th degree black belt says D-A-N for his >rank and not D-O-N? Many students first pronounce >it as D-A-N , but not when they are up in the >black belt ranks. Maybe I am wrong on this one...do >ITFers say DAN, over DON? I thought Karate people >even pronounce it as DON. Set me straight >because I know I always can learn something new from >you all. I have heard *Americans* pronounce the korean for "degree" as dAn many times and from different organizations. I recall GM Sereff of the USTF (former NGB for the ITF) at a training camp in 1993 referring to the black belts as "dAns" several times. GM K.S. Hwang (head of KATU, also a former NGB of the ITF) I have heard refer to dOns. He is, obviouslly, a Korean. When I was training at a WTF club back in college the Korean Master instructor pronounced it dOn, as did the other Korean who instructed class from time to time. I should note that I have also heard many American pronounce it dOn as well. So it seems to me that it's more a matter of how authentic one tries to get in their pronunciation of Korean, not what organization one belongs to. Taekwon, Chris --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Jared Circle" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2004 10:53:25 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: "The Holy Grail" Correction Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Hwang Ki admitted in his biography to copying the majority of the forms currently practiced in TSD from a book in an Okinawa Library.< Sorry, this information is incorrect. Hwang Ki copied the forms from an Okinawa book in a Korean Library. I apologize for the confusion. Jared Circle --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2004 15:18:02 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Tang Soo Do Forms Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net You are correct that Tang Soo Do Forms are great forms as are many others, however few people outside the Moo Duk Kwan practice Tang Soo Do forms correctly. Pyong Ahn Hyungs, Nai Ha Ji Hyungs, and a few others are not Tang Soo Do forms. They are forms adopted by its founder, but existed prior to Tang Soo Do's development. Tang Soo Do forms are forms like Ki Cho Hyungs, Chil Sang Hyungs, and others that were developed by Grandmaster Hwang Kee. The problem occurred not just with forms but with all areas of training in Tang Soo Do when many of the students of Kwan Jang Nim Hwang Kee broke their connection with the founder. This fractured relationship between students and instructor caused a dilution of technique, and philosophy. The instructors that had broken away taught what they had learned from Tang Soo Do founder Grandmaster Hwang Kee, but because the founder did not recognize them as students they taught there own interpretations. Currently the only organization tied to the founders of Tang Soo Do is the World Moo Duk Kwan or in the United States the US Soo Bahk Do (Tang Soo Do) Moo Duk Kwan federation Inc. Led by the Son of founder Hwang Kee and now recognized as Grandmaster HC Hwang. HC Hwang is the only person in history to be promoted to Grandmaster by the founder of Tang Soo Do. All others are branches not connected to there founder. HC Hwang Kwan Jang Nim is available and is one of the original Masters. I don't mean to say instructors outside the Moo Duk Kwan are bad instructors or that they are not talented people with many years of experience. If you are an instructor place yourself in the founders shoes. You have a student that for whatever reason leaves your school as a Cho Dan (beginning level) and decides to teach his own school with out your approval. He teaches students up to Cho Dan what else can he teach, so he teaches his own interpretation but uses the same name as your school. Grandmaster Hwang Kee trademarked the Moo Duk Kwan flag, and the name Tang Soo Do, Adopted the name Soo Bahk Do and registered that name and its symbol in an effort to separate the diluted variations from what he had created. however many still claim a connection. If you are a Tang Soo Do Student or instructor please don't take what I have written as negative toward any individual person. I say these things as someone that has trained with Grandmaster Hwang Kee and some of the original masters, and I only relay what I have been taught. Respectfully; JC --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Tang Soo Do Forms To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2004 20:05:08 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > The problem occurred not just with forms but with all areas of training in > Tang Soo Do when many of the students of Kwan Jang Nim Hwang Kee broke their > connection with the founder. This fractured relationship between students and > instructor caused a dilution of technique, and philosophy. > The instructors that had broken away taught what they had learned from Tang > Soo Do founder Grandmaster Hwang Kee, .... Well, actually Hwang Kee is/was not the founder of Tang Soo Do. He was the founder of Hwa Soo Do and of the Moo Duk Kwan, but it appears that Lee Won-kuk was the first to teach Tang Soo Do and use the name Tang Soo Do in Korea. See Hwang Kee's little blue 50th anniversary book for the details. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest