Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 03:01:50 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #381 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1700 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Hwang Kee as student (Ray Terry) 2. (no subject) (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 3. Mr. Idos (FRANK CLAY) 4. (no subject) (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 5. Moo Duk Kwan (FRANK CLAY) 6. Moo Duk Kwan - One or many? (David Weller) 7. Re: Hwang Kee as student (Ray Terry) 8. Re: Bernard Redfield...Jae Nam (Bernard Redfield) 9. Video clip (Jye nigma) 10. SBD MDK (Ray Terry) 11. Re: Moo Duk Kwan (Ray Terry) 12. hWANG kEE sTUDENT OF wON kUK lEE (lenlosik) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 10:58:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Hwang Kee as student Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net This was sent in by a new subscriber, Len Losik. Len is having trouble getting email through to the list... Ray ======================================================= In an interview with Grandmaster Won Kuk Lee in the Tae Kwon Do Times magazine issue of March, 1997, Grandmaster Won Kuk Leee states that the founder of the Moo Duk Kwan was his student. It's on page 48 on the right hand corner. He also states that the founders of the Ji Do Kwan and Jung Do Kwan were his students as well. Best Regards, LL --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 14:48:33 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] (no subject) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net See 1st Volume text book published by Grandmaster Hwang Kee. He gives some detailed information of Martial arts history in general as well as information concerning the the history and lineage of the Hyungs he incorporated in the original Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan. JC --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "FRANK CLAY" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 14:59:19 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Mr. Idos Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce, Idos is Itosu. Itosu was the creator of that set of hyung, and this is fairly well documented. Hope this helps. Frank --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:01:07 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] (no subject) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I believe you. that sounds like what Kwan Jang Nim HC Hwang would have done. I am a little confused about you visit to the international headquarters in Seoul. I have been there personally and have trained there as well I have also been upstairs to the office of the later Kwan Jang Nim Hwang Kee's office. I remember the building only being two story (No third floor). Master Chung was the leader there below Kwan Jang Nim Hwang Kee. His Dan # was 410. What year were you there and can you describe the floor you trained on. JC --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "FRANK CLAY" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:05:18 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Moo Duk Kwan Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I think that you will have a hard time with the words Moo Duk Kwan. There is a TKD MDK Association in Seoul for example. If you do not enforce it on everyone, you will run into problems, and to be honest, I can't see the organization being forced to change its name after so many years in operation. MDK, in my mind, would therefore now be a historical term as well, and if memory serves, you cannot trademark or copyright history. I would be interested in seeing how all of this pans out. I suspect that the USSBDMDK will find that it will not be in their best interests to pursue such litigation not only form a PR point of view, but from a purely financial one. Just my opinions though. Thoughts? f. --__--__-- Message: 6 From: David Weller Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:11:22 -0500 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Moo Duk Kwan - One or many? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net On Sep 10, 2004, at 10:54 AM, "Gladewater SooBahkDo" wrote: > > Sir: > > I have to disagree with your statement "there is not one MDK" The Moo > Duk Kwan > was founded by Kwan Jang Nim Hwang Kee, its is Trademarked and > registered (See > front page of the Soo Bahk Do web site) > www.soobahkdo.com all other organizations > using the > name regardless of TSD or TKD or in violation and not recognized by the > founder or his federation. Just because you are a former student in > the Moo > Duk Kwan does not mean you can leave the organization and still claim a > connection. > > In an earlier post I gave an analogy of Walmart. If I worked there 20 > years > and then quite to open my own store. That would be fine, but if I > called it > Walmart I would be in violation of Trademark and Registration laws, > and just > because I had Walmart on my sign does not mean it is a Walmart store. > Sir, I must disagree with your analogy. Certainly I can't claim to "be" Walmart after having worked there, but I could certainly claim a connection if I had worked there. "Hi, Welcome to K-mart, my name is Dave. I gained my customer service experience through 25 years at the Walmart store down the street. " Same in the Martial Arts. "Hi, welcome to our Tae Kwon Do Dojang. My name is Dave. I have studied this style of TKD for ten years, prior to that I was promoted to third Da(h)n in TGT MDK." No harm in mentioning or remembering your roots. Trademark or not. Respectfully, dave weller --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Hwang Kee as student To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:18:05 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > This was sent in by a new subscriber, Len Losik. Len is having trouble > getting email through to the list... P.S. to Len. Thanks for sending this and please keep trying. You'll figure it out... :) Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 17:12:44 -0400 From: Bernard Redfield To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Bernard Redfield...Jae Nam Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Good Sir, > If memory serves correctly, Jae Nam is the name of the hyung that the > Pyung Ahn hyungs were "broken down" from. This is a test question for > Dans(thats Dahns) and red belts in our org. Also, in our org the Pyung Ahn > is re-assembled into Jae Nam and performed as part of the first Dan pre-test > and test. In doing this the practitioner hopefully learns HAS pyung ahn. > Respectfully, > George Sir George, That sounds like the "Master Idos "paragraph on page 372 from the USSBDMDKF Vol. 1 (78) 79-110358 , a lot has turned out to be bad trranslation, I would think the translator was not too good because the Pinan Kata were not created in 1870 but around 1901-7 by Itosu Yautsune , so I guess all your dahns and red belts got it wrong! (just kidding) Yes it was taken from a longer form called Chiang Nan(Jae Nam )and arguably Kushanku(Kong Sang Koon), My question is really if the Jae Nam/ Chiang Nan could be the Channan hyung still practiced. How do you do the 5 Pyong Ahns in a row, the original way or the japanese/korean way, also do you go to chimbe between the forms or transition straight into each set from the last move before return.? Tang Soo! bernar --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 14:25:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Video clip Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net http://www.blacktaoist.com/BTJiangapplication.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Shop for Back-to-School deals on Yahoo! Shopping. --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 20:10:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] SBD MDK Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I am a little confused about you visit to the international headquarters in > Seoul. I have been there personally and have trained there as well I have > also been upstairs to the office of the later Kwan Jang Nim Hwang Kee's > office. I remember the building only being two story (No third floor). Master > Chung was the leader there below Kwan Jang Nim Hwang Kee. His Dan # was 410. > What year were you there and can you describe the floor you trained on. As I recall there was another small business on the 2nd floor of the SBD MDK office, maybe a cleaners. Or perhaps I am confusing that part with the TKD MDK office which is also in Seoul. Either way, pics of the SBD MDK that I took are at: http://martialartsresource.com/korean/pics.htm See the last two pics on that page. You can see the small training floor that was there on the first floor. 10 students would probably fill up the dojang. Master K.Y. Seen (the name shown on his business card) was the master instructor and is teaching the class in the pic. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Moo Duk Kwan To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 20:13:24 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I think that you will have a hard time with the words Moo Duk Kwan. > ... > Just my opinions though. Thoughts? That is probably why that submittal is still under investigation by the US Patent and Trademark Office.?. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "lenlosik" To: Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 18:22:00 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] hWANG kEE sTUDENT OF wON kUK lEE Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Charles Richards, In an interview with Grandmaster Won Kuk Lee in the Tae Kwon Do Times magazine issue of March, 1997, Grandmaster Won Kuk Leee states that the founder of the Moo Duk Kwan was his student. It's on page 48 on the right hand corner. He also states that the founders of the Ji Do Kwan and Jung Do Kwan were his students as well. Best Regards, LL --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest