Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 03:01:53 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #385 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1700 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Brainerd Seminar (Moe) 2. More TSD lineage (Charles Richards) 3. lineage (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 4. UK MDK (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 5. Master Ahpo (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 6. the MDKs (Ray Terry) 7. More from California (Mr. V) 8. Lineages and Ahpo Info (John Hancock) 9. MDK copyright (John Hancock) 10. Violation (FRANK CLAY) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Moe" To: Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 19:00:40 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Brainerd Seminar Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ms. Cory, thank you for your post. I agree with your comments about the seminar hosted by Master Dewitt in Brainerd last weekend. As a white belt (practicing for a whirlwind 6 weeks now) everything about TKD and Hapkido is new to me, and I admit to being nervous about attending the seminar when I am so new at this art. But Master Dewitt and Mrs. Keppers encouraged me to attend, and Grand Master Timmerman was most gracious and patient. A dear friend who is a black belt traveled to Brainerd with her family so that she could take part in the day's events, and as we were leaving for the evening she looked back at the school and asked me if I had any notion just how lucky I am to be part of a dojang like ours, to learn from such excellent people. I couldn't help the huge grin that spread over my face. She rolled her eyes at me and chuckled saying, "Yes, I guess you know." Cynthia Moe Brainerd, MN --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 18:20:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] More TSD lineage Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I read "I don't recall KJN Shin saying anything about Oh Se Jun, but I will try and ask him on the 24th or 25th. He will be down for the weekend. By the way, have you heard anything about Master St James joining USSBD?" MC Reply Master Dunn, All the WTSDA info says Shin KJN started at age 12 circa 1948. I'd say it's possible that Hwang Kee was still the primary instructor in 1948? As for St. James check out http://www.tangsoopro.com/studios.html Home of the North American Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan Federation. Featuring Master Carole Coker, Master Kevin Case, and new Master Stacey Busby. They are allied with Snr. Master Steven Washington and Snr. Master Darryl Khalid (both 7th Dans) If he has joined USSBD he has failed to update his website(s) He would also be junior to Bartolacci SBN who (is/was) 6th Dan last I heard (Atlanta Soo Bahk Do) Yours in Jung Do, Charles --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 20:39:11 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] lineage Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master Terry I guess what I should have asked was right now. Who is you instructor, and his and so on until the original Kwan leader is reached. JC --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 20:51:04 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] UK MDK Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sir; I am always glad to hear from our friends from across the pond. I have a very good friend in Manchester, England (Master Robert Hedges) you may know him. At my last Ko Dan Ja Shim Sa I tested with two other Moo Duk Kwan members. Master Howell, and master Robert Salters. As for your lineage I have to disagree with your direct lineage to Kwan Jang Nim Hwang Kee. It would be more correct to say broken lineage do to the fact only Moo Duk Kwan members linked to the US SBD MDK through the World Moo Duk Kwan headed by HC Hwang Kwan Jang Nim can claim a direct lineage. JC --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 20:58:17 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Master Ahpo Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I know and respect master Ahpo very much. As far as I know he has not mended any fences with respect to the US SBD MDK. That is to bad. He is a great instructor with a tremendous following. I know only hear say as to why he was relieved of his position on the TAC, which seemed to be the last straw and led to his decision to leave. For this reason I will not comment on his leaving the Moo Duk Kwan. JC --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 19:35:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] the MDKs Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > As for your lineage I have to disagree with your direct lineage to Kwan Jang > Nim Hwang Kee. It would be more correct to say broken lineage do to the fact > only Moo Duk Kwan members linked to the US SBD MDK through the World Moo Duk > Kwan headed by HC Hwang Kwan Jang Nim can claim a direct lineage. Jeez. Ain't politics grand. :( Sorry, but lineage (even tho it won't save your butt in a dark alley) is lineage... and it cannot be changed by politics. I'm sure some would like to change who their instructors or students were after-the-fact, but it just doesn't work that way. Your students are your students, and your instructors are your instructors... And Hwang Kee agreed, BTW... "There is no formal administrative relationship between Soo Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan and Tae Kwon Do members who were originally members of the Moo Duk Kwan. However, there is an inherent relationsip because we all are of the Moo Duk Kwan heritage. All Moo Duk Kwan practioners in the world today can be traced back to Kwan Jang Nim Hwang Kee, founder of the Moo Duk Kwan, whether they are in Soo Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan or Tae Kwon Do." - Hwang Kee, The History of the Moo Duk Kwan, 1995. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Mr. V" To: "Dojang Digest \(E-mail\)" Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 19:48:41 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] More from California Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The CTA has come up with some ideas for the TaeKwonDo community in California. CTA Funding Awards for California Athletes, Referees and Coaches See all the details here http://www.catkd.com/pages/whats_new.htm [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "John Hancock" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 22:23:33 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Lineages and Ahpo Info Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I can trace my lineage directly to Hwang Kee.  Both my initial instructor (Han Chi Sup sabomnim) and my senior (Phillip Suttle sabomnim) were trained and tested by Hwang Kee, making me 2nd Generation. JH   ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out Election 2004 for up-to-date election news, plus voter tools and more! --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "John Hancock" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 22:30:28 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] MDK copyright Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Yes...if you use the name Moo Duk Kwan in your advertisements or you sign...you have violated copyright and trademark.  Only the organization run now by Hwang Hyun Chul is entitled to use the name Moo Duk Kwan.  You can still tell it is in your lineage, and you can mention it in manuals as long as you put in a disclaimer that you are not a member of the existing Moo Duk Kwan.  Eventually...this issue is going to blow up in Korea where there is a Moo Duk Kwan Tae Kwon Do organization. I trained in the Moo Duk Kwan...and I don't even use the name as I not a member any longer.  Doing so is just unethical. JH   ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "FRANK CLAY" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 22:10:35 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Violation Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net JC: "You can call the US Soo Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan headquarters at (973) 467-3971 and asked to talk with Master Phil Duncan. He can inform you. I can assure you however you will be in violation. Master Terry is correct that others have been using the logo for years however that does not mean it is legal. That only means that they are also in violation. Call Master Duncan for complete details. JC" You, and other master who is not an esquire, are not qualified to make this statement. First off, the violation would be alleged and the status of the violation would be decided by either a court, or an arbiter. Instead of telling people they are in violation, perhaps it would be better to refer them to an attorney and then drop the matter? If they are indeed in violation, you, as a member of the complaining organization, should not be saying anything. Now there is legally, if I am not mistaked, and this is going way back to a class I had in 91 on tort law, that after a certain amount of time, there is a de facto right to use a mark. Alain? Any comments on that one? f. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest