Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 13:29:01 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #386 - 15 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1700 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: MDK copyright (Ray Terry) 2. RE: Violation (vic77053-dojanglist) 3. linage chart (George Peters) 4. Re: olympic tkd videos/dvds (ChunjiDo@aol.com) 5. New Second Dan (Lawren Hasten) 6. Songahm Forms (Clint Cayson) 7. RE: Master Richards (Dunn, Danny J GARRISON) 8. RE: lineage (Dunn, Danny J GARRISON) 9. Lineage (Nathan Miller) 10. Bartolacci SBN (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 11. lineage (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 12. TM Violation and MDK (FRANK CLAY) 13. (no subject) (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 14. Tradmark, Copyright, Etc. (C. Bonner) 15. Hwang Kee (almost nude) photo (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] MDK copyright To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 21:21:55 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Yes...if you use the name Moo Duk Kwan in your advertisements or you > sign...you have violated copyright and trademark. We have seen that the current status of the trademark request for "Moo Duk Kwan" is still under review in the United States trademark office. As for copyright, I do not believe that you can copyright a name or a word or a phrase. You copyright literary works, works of art (so one could try to copyright the MDK logos, I guess??), sound recordings, a mask (i.e. an integrated circuit), the performance of an art work, etc. Words and phrases are protected by the trademark process. e.g. I believe that "Hwa Rang Do" is an example of something that is trademarked, while the TKD forms/poomsae of the ATA are copyrighted. But I'm not a lawyer and this topic is getting very long in the tooth... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "vic77053-dojanglist" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Violation Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 22:08:18 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net They may also want to talk with an attorney about "force" something about a copyright must be enforced to remain valid. Respectfully -----Original Message----- From: FRANK CLAY [mailto:frankclay@msn.com] Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 8:11 PM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Violation JC: "You can call the US Soo Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan headquarters at (973) 467-3971 and asked to talk with Master Phil Duncan. He can inform you. I can assure you however you will be in violation. Master Terry is correct that others have been using the logo for years however that does not mean it is legal. That only means that they are also in violation. Call Master Duncan for complete details. JC" You, and other master who is not an esquire, are not qualified to make this statement. First off, the violation would be alleged and the status of the violation would be decided by either a court, or an arbiter. Instead of telling people they are in violation, perhaps it would be better to refer them to an attorney and then drop the matter? If they are indeed in violation, you, as a member of the complaining organization, should not be saying anything. Now there is legally, if I am not mistaked, and this is going way back to a class I had in 91 on tort law, that after a certain amount of time, there is a de facto right to use a mark. Alain? Any comments on that one? f. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1700 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "George Peters" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 01:22:33 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] linage chart Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Good Sir, I have been told by more than one person that the chart in the book is not correct. Respectfully, George _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ --__--__-- Message: 4 From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 07:30:01 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: olympic tkd videos/dvds Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net there's a coupla guys i know selling gold medal matches on dvd on ebay. looks like a very professional job. not sure about the licensing, so i'd get 'em while you can...lol. take care, melinda Chajonshim Martial Arts Academy www.cjmaa.com 1.573.673.2769 Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply www.cjmas.com 1.877.847.4072 --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 05:46:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Lawren Hasten To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] New Second Dan Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I would like to congratulate fellow lurker Joan Gittleman of Hodder's Korean Martial Arts for earning her Second Dan in TKD this past weekend. Great Job! Lawren Hasten --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 09:27:45 -0400 From: "Clint Cayson" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Songahm Forms Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello, Question for the group. Where can I find a website that shows the forms of Songahm Style. Your help is highly appreciated. Thanks. Respectfully, Clint --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 08:31:57 -0500 From: "Dunn, Danny J GARRISON" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Master Richards Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master Richards, You are correct about what all our lit says about KJN Shin, Jae Chul. And I have heard him acknowledge KJN Hwang Kee as his instructor several times, including our World Championship the week KJN Hwang Kee died. I have not heard him mention anyone else. I know the website and checked it yesterday. I think that must be the group JC was refering too, but I have not heard anything and the website remains unchanged. I was surprised because it just doesn't sound like Master St James. Danny <<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>> --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 08:48:29 -0500 From: "Dunn, Danny J GARRISON" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: lineage Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net My Tang Soo Do lineage is myself to Shin, Jae Chul to Hwang Kee. I have to disagree with your statement below. I would also add that I have learned much from Master Bill Strong and Master Mike Hicks, both also students of KJN Shin. I suspect that many people are the same, and training lineages may begin to look like a web. Lineage is your history of training, and as such it is fact, and can not be broken. Now I have studied other arts, and I have lineages there too, and I could list those in the same way. The only difference is that I no longer study under those instructors. Doesn't change the history though. Danny Dunn <<<<>>>>>>> --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 07:09:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Nathan Miller To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Lineage Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net My line is a bit longer than most of the others here. :-) Me - my instructor Charlie Veuleman - learned from Dwain Spillman - learned from Dr. David Jordan - learned from Atlee Chittim - learned from Jhoon Rhee - learned from Lee Won Kuk or Son Duk Song: I've seen both in many places. Whether there is a "break" there is a strange question, though the answer is yes. When Rhee switched from the older form set to Gen. Choi's new Chang Hon set, Atlee Chittim continued teaching the older stuff. Which is how we ended up doing what we do with no Koreans around. Nathan --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 10:11:54 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Bartolacci SBN Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bartolaccci Sa Bom Nim is a sixth Dan, however I believe he is testing at the next Ko Dan ja Shim Sa in California for Chil Dan. I did not hear that from him, but it was a reliable source. The NATSD joined at the last SBD MDK Kwan nationals in San Diego California. Late August of this year, I don't know would the representative was for the organization. JC --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 10:35:18 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] lineage Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net JH What organization are you with now? Are you directly linked or is the lineage now broken? JC --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "FRANK CLAY" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 09:05:11 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] TM Violation and MDK Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net John, I don't think you have kept up with events. Check out the registration. Currently it is not a violation as the name had become a "dead mark". I checked it out earlier this year and posted the information here from the US government. Ray Terry just posted it a couple of days ago, showing that it had been re-applied for BUT was under investigation. I stand by my comments that these people should be talking to attorneys and we, including police officers, should not be giving legal advice. Not to mention, you as a police officer know that WE do not have the authority to determine a violation, but a court or an arbiter does. Just my opinion. Frank Clay --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 10:53:48 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] (no subject) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net My reference to calling Master Duncan was because he is the administrator for the US SBD MDK headquarters and he can refer you to the correct attorney handling the trademark issues for the federation. I made this reference because as you stated it is not my place to represent the federation in legal matters. I can however offer information to those that inquire about trademarks, information such as calling Master Duncan. Calling master Duncan would be the first and correct step as he represents the voice of the US SBD MDK and has the information as to legal status and the attorneys involved with the case or cases JC --__--__-- Message: 14 From: "C. Bonner" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 12:55:06 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Tradmark, Copyright, Etc. Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net       Information from the patent, copyright, and tradmark office, show's the M.D.K. symbol is tradmarked. But as of now the name Moo Duk Kwan is not! Neither is Tang Soo Do, or T.S.D.M.D.K. Unless the info is wrong for some reason.   Clint ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! --__--__-- Message: 15 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 13:25:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Hwang Kee (almost nude) photo Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I ran across this old photo of Hwang Kee today... http://community.webshots.com/photo/17625748/17626199lLfLYAXkBB Wow. What is the story behind that photo? First time I'd seen it... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest