Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 09:22:02 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #395 - 18 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1700 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. New to it all (Lois Knorr) 2. John Moore on class............. (George Peters) 3. visit (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 4. creation (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 5. Do-Bok trim (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 6. RE: RE: New to it all (John Moore) 7. Re: Sharing Traditions (Bruce Sims) 8. Re: Sharing Traditions (Bruce Sims) 9. Re: "Elderly Practitioners' (Bruce Sims) 10. New to it all (Dave Marriott) 11. ATA vs. WTF (Divetony@aol.com) 12. Re: creation (Ray Terry) 13. Lee, Won Kuk (FRANK CLAY) 14. RE: John Moore on class............. (John Moore) 15. Video Clip...monkey staff (Jye nigma) 16. Video Clip...san soo (Jye nigma) 17. RE: New to it all (John Moore) 18. Re: Age & Martial Arts Training (Texatc@aol.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 22:50:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Lois Knorr To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] New to it all Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net John Moore asks: "Is it wise to attend twice a week or is once the limit?" At 51 years of age, I decided to go back to the martial arts after an eight year hiatus and four months of bedrest from illness. I started with stretching twice per day for two months and then started attending classes. I found (and still find) that three times per week is optimum. Just my experience fwiw. Chronologically experienced Lois --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "George Peters" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 00:35:26 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] John Moore on class............. Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Good Sir, I would advise that you go to class as often as your recovery time permits you to attend. For example, when I was a gup, If I went twice in a week, I was sore all the time, three times was just the right balance for me to stay loose and not sore. Hopefully, the more in shape you get, the less recovery time you will need(up to a point). For now though, you may have to grit your teeth and "gut it out" to get over the initial soreness. The knowledge you gain now will also help you pace yourself if you are injured later and have to take some time to recover. Many people start at the age of forty and do well in martial arts. I hope you do well also and wish you a wonderful journey in the world of martial arts. Respectfully, George Peters _________________________________________________________________ Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to School Guide! http://special.msn.com/network/04backtoschool.armx --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 00:34:46 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] visit Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I am sure you were treated well during your visit to the US SBD MDK federation headquarters and international headquarters.. I too would have respected you if you had visited my Do-Jang. Just because we disagree in a few areas. I can still respect you as a martial artist and a person. JCGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 01:15:03 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] creation Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net This US Soo Bahk Do group did create the kwan they are trying to lay claim to (Moo Duk Kwan November 9,1945 Hwang Kee Kwan Jang Nim ) As for technique, After the unification of the kwans in Korea. Tang Soo Do became known as more than a name (generically used). It became associated with Hwang Kee and the Moo Duk Kwan school as a particular art. I don't think many true martial artist question the scientific principles of the art Tang Soo Do/Soo Bahk Do although everyone has an opinion. If anyone one questions the arts scientific application of technique pick up the first vol text book written by Kwan Jang Nim Hwang Kee and see for yourself. Demonstration of these principals is an individual thing in any art. As for Hapkido which by the way I think is a remarkable art form. Why do you think people don't know what Hapkido is? Why do they think of it as eclectic. Could it be that peoples opinions have clouded the facts. I think that is true in a lot of martial arts which is why lineage in my opinion is important. I get information about the art I study from a man that was there during most of the arts history, not a man that trained with him 15 min 20 years ago. Or was once associated with the founder and now reads books written by men that were once students of students of the founder. JCGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 01:19:05 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Do-Bok trim Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I am curious as to everyones understanding of the history of the Do-Bok Trim worn around the lapel and cuff of most Korean arts today. JCGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "John Moore" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] RE: New to it all Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 09:00:09 +0100 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Makes me feel like a bit of a waif.. Thanks. John Moore www.moorecomputersolutions.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: Ray Terry [mailto:rterry@idiom.com] Sent: 18 September 2004 01:04 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] RE: New to it all > John, first me say welcome to the digest and to the mat. Not knowing what 18 > stones translates to I will say this - 3 1/2 years ago at the age of 39 and > weighing a lithe 350lbs I started trainging in Tang Soo Do. I now weigh in at > about 305lbs and hope to be down to about 260 in Jan. 1 stone = 14 lbs. So John comes in at a slim 252 lbs. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1700 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 01:15:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Sharing Traditions Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Barrie: ".....I presume you gave your word to Dojonim Kim, so I dont believe you seriously consider sharing the detail......" Yes, and that needs to be made absolutely clear otherwise Jeres' original question becomes a simple matter of people playing "I gotta secret", yes? The fact is that Jeres' question carries considerable baggage well beyond people simply being reluctant to give their arts' information away. Within the context of traditional KMA there are obligations one owes ones' teacher, specifically, and the kwan, generally. In my book this has little to do with titles like "dojunim" or exotic ranks like 8th, 9th and 10th dan. Rather it is Integrity driven by a sense of Honor for no other reason than a man of Honor conducts himself in an honorable fashion. Put succintly, I did not give my word to a title or a rank as much as I gave my word to my senior who earned my respect by doing nothing but encouraging good out of me the entire week we were together. Soooooooooo.... We are back to Jeres' original point. How do we share information for the betterment of Hapkido? Thoughts? Comments? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 01:38:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Sharing Traditions Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Jere: ".....This US sobakdo group is acting like they created the kwan they want exclusive rights to. But what did they create? An organization. Nothing more. They have not discussed technique,just lineage, which in the large picture is not that important. When a white belt shows up on your mats, do they care what organization you belong to? What art you teach? Who you studied with for 15 minutes 20 years ago? Usually not. It is all about technique. Just my opinion.........." Hmmmmmm....... I hear what you are saying and as we are both Americans I suppose we could be forgiven for applying an American ethos to the question. In that case what you say makes very good sense. I think its important to point out, however, that what you are saying may only hold water depending on where you put the emphasis when you use the term "Korean Martial Arts." >From an American point of view (emphasis on "martial art" and less on "korean" what we are learning is pretty much in the public domain. Applying the American model, we all "share the wealth" with the information "rich" giving to the information "poor" for the betterment of the arts in general, yes? But...... When people want to make a point (especially a controlling point) they run for shelter behind the fact that we practice a "Korean" martial art with all the implications of patrilinear structure, senior/junior hierarchy and stringent codes of conduct. How is this going to work? Do we only owe loyalty to our kwan or "chong" ("collective") when it suits our purpose? Do we say, "I got mine, to hell with you!"? On the other hand, do the people we are distributing "freebies" to owe any obligations? Lets say I complete a book on fundmentals of Korean sword. Mightly researched and artistically expressed, I practically give the fruits of my labors away. Do the people who get that material owe the arts anything? Are they accountable to anyone for what they do with the arts? What are they responsible for giving back? What are the consequences for abusing, misusing, misrepresting or prostituting the material they are given? When do THEY ever get around to kicking into the kitty, then? Thoughts? Comments? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 01:48:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: "Elderly Practitioners' Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear John: "....Is it wise to attend twice a week or is once the limit?.........." I liked the way DJN Kim came back to this issue over and over again. I think maybe he was taken aback somewhat by the work schedule I took on. 3 hours a day, two times a day for a week probably had him wondering if he was going to have to give me mouth2mouth. ;-( Daunting prospect, that, no doubt! His position then was to quote a remark regularly ascribed to DJN Choi Yong Sul. Simply stated the comment was, "wear your uniform everyday." DJN Kim went on to say that you don't have to work out two hours or even one hour everyday. Perhaps a half hour is all you can manage. However, you DO need to put in a little time each day. Maybe a couple of hyungs, or certainly a sound warm-up and stretching. In this way DJN Choi was in good company with Funakoshi, Kano and Ueyshiba who all expressed the same sentiments. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Dave Marriott" To: Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 12:52:58 +0100 Subject: [The_Dojang] New to it all Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello Mr Moore, I started training in Hapkido at the age of 41. I took my son to his first class and was asked by the instructor if I would like to join in. At the time I was a keen cyclist and considered myself very fit. By the end of the warm up I was not so sure. The classes were held twice a week at this club and I found this no problem. After 18 months for various reasons I left this club and joined another that held classes 5 times a week in different areas. By this time my other son had started training and we would travel to all 5 classes most weeks. Apart from the odd injury and a fair bit of stiffness we were fine. I have found as I have got older that I can still keep up with younger students once I am fully warmed up. The problem is usually the first couple of minutes of intense training. The other problem is stiffness the next day. I am now 51 and have a 1st dan in Hapkido and 2nd dan in Hanmudo. I once heard a doctor say that most problems associated with old age were in fact problems caused by lack of use. In my experience I have found attitude more of a limiting factor than age. Within reasonable limits the more I train the easier I have found it. Regards Dave Marriott --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Divetony@aol.com Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 09:18:54 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] ATA vs. WTF Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have taken off from practicing TKD for 3 months, right after my 1st Dan test (WTF) I moved out of the area. I have trained at WTF schools both times I trained, 17 years ago and most recently. While I have an opinion about the WTF, basically what my Masters have told me, I would like to throw this question out there since I am looking for a new school and the ATA school is minutes away whereas the WTF school is about 15 miles from here. Is there a major difference in the programs? If so what are they? Which is the better program to pursue my 2nd Dan, particularly at my age, 44, where instructing and fitness will probably become more prevelant than competing? --__--__-- Message: 12 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] creation To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 06:40:51 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > This US Soo Bahk Do group did create the kwan they are trying to lay claim to > (Moo Duk Kwan November 9,1945 Hwang Kee Kwan Jang Nim ) ... Say what?!? US Soo Bahk Do had nothing, NOTHING, do with the creation of the MDK. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "FRANK CLAY" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 08:42:01 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Lee, Won Kuk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray, <> Don't forget that traditional Shotokan only goes up to fifth dan. Fifth was end of the line. Not sure were everything else came from, but maybe we should go back to something like that? Frank --__--__-- Message: 14 From: "John Moore" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] John Moore on class............. Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 15:27:30 +0100 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thank you for the advice and good advice it is too. The night after my last session I could barely sleep with tossing and turning, cramp and stiffness. Ha ha who would have thought I had spent 12 years in the armed forces - the fit days.. amazing how much TV, beer and burgers can take their toll, eh. :-) Many thanks John Moore www.moorecomputersolutions.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: George Peters [mailto:kyosag@hotmail.com] Sent: 18 September 2004 05:35 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] John Moore on class............. Good Sir, I would advise that you go to class as often as your recovery time permits you to attend. For example, when I was a gup, If I went twice in a week, I was sore all the time, three times was just the right balance for me to stay loose and not sore. Hopefully, the more in shape you get, the less recovery time you will need(up to a point). For now though, you may have to grit your teeth and "gut it out" to get over the initial soreness. The knowledge you gain now will also help you pace yourself if you are injured later and have to take some time to recover. Many people start at the age of forty and do well in martial arts. I hope you do well also and wish you a wonderful journey in the world of martial arts. Respectfully, George Peters _________________________________________________________________ Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to School Guide! http://special.msn.com/network/04backtoschool.armx _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1700 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 15 Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 07:27:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma To: itf-taekwondo@yahoogroups.com, the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Video Clip...monkey staff Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net http://www.dragonslist.com/kwoon/monkeystaff/monkeystaffmaster2.WMV --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today! --__--__-- Message: 16 Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 07:20:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma To: csemt@yahoogroups.com, the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Video Clip...san soo Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net http://www.dragonslist.com/kwoon/sansoo/sansoo.WMV __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 17 From: "John Moore" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] New to it all Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 15:24:24 +0100 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I once heard a doctor say that most problems associated with old age were in fact problems caused by lack of use. ** Now that must be the best advice I have heard in a long time :-) John Moore www.moorecomputersolutions.co.uk --__--__-- Message: 18 From: Texatc@aol.com Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 12:49:26 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Age & Martial Arts Training Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Message: 2 Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 14:30:34 -0400 From: ABurrese@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: New to it all Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >>First off - how many folks join up at 40 years and manage >>to go the >>distance? >> >>Is it wise to attend twice a week or is once the limit? >> >>John Moore John, G' Day, John! I write to encourage you! I started toward the end of last year, attend three times weekly and have just achieved High Red Belt level. I am now working toward testing for the Brown Belt, probably by late October. Next month, I will celebrate my 72nd birthday. It's never too late! Ash Coopland --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest