Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 08:06:02 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #399 - 14 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1700 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. MDK trim (Ray Terry) 2. Fw: [The_Dojang] Lee, Won Kuk and Shotokan's Highest Dan (5th) Level... (masterm1) 3. Re: Training after 40 (Jason E. Thomas) 4. Re: (no subject) (Jason E. Thomas) 5. Re: Lee, Won Kuk and Shotokan's Highest Dan (5th) Level... (Jason E. Thomas) 6. Reply to JH (FRANK CLAY) 7. RE: Rank Looney Tunes (Rick Clark) 8. RE: MDK and Aggies! (J R Hilland) 9. RE: New to it all (Linda Valdivia) 10. Question re: re-braakable boards (Linda Valdivia) 11. Mater Terry (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 12. market share (Charles Richards) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 21:09:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] MDK trim Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >From the archives... It appears that trimmed doboks began to be worn by MDK players in the mid-1950s. Prior to that the pictures show a variety of things being worn. As of about 1955 or 56 you see them in doboks w/trim. As I recall the idea came from old military uniforms, that you can see in the War Memorial (in Seoul). Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "masterm1" To: Subject: Fw: [The_Dojang] Lee, Won Kuk and Shotokan's Highest Dan (5th) Level... Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 03:47:27 -0300 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello everyone First I am a third Generation Tae Kwon Do Chung Do Kwan member Under Grandmaster Woon Kyu Uhm. I had the pleasure of meeting our humble founder Great Grandmaster Won Kuk Lee and attending a seminar he gave. I was impressed with his knowledge and ability because at 94 he could still do waist high side kicks. Only a few overblown egos challenge the fact that he was the first to create a kwan and that his basic theories of martial arts where followed by all other kwans and organizations. In the beginning he said he was not happy about all of his students breaking away and forming their own schools and changing his techniques but by the time I had the honor of meeting him he had embraced all his former students I.T.F., W.T.F.,ATA ,WTA, whatever. You see he was not a big man in a small pond or a small man in a big pond he was the father of our art, the man who threw the rock in the pond and got the first wave started. So what is my point, please give his name a little respect at least when you write his name give him the title of Master Won Kuk Lee. Respectfully Kennith Martin 5th Dan Tae Kwon Do Chung Do Kwan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Master Arce" To: Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 4:54 PM Subject: [The_Dojang] Lee, Won Kuk and Shotokan's Highest Dan (5th) Level... > You are RIGHT Master Terry! Sorry about that! I meant > *Grand Son, NOT Son! Thanks for catching my mistake! > Peace.... :) > > > > *Shotokan Karate Do Founder Gichin Funakoshi's > Grandson is Kenneth Funakoshi (9th Dan). > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 1700 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 06:00:53 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jason E. Thomas" Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Training after 40 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Having trained with Manfred on several occasions. I can tell with out a doubt he is a superior martial artist by any standard. It's definately possible at any age. Jason Manfred Fischer wrote: Good Morning fellow Martial artists, I have been reading the digest for some time now and never realy felt qualified enough to respond to the topics written about. I started my journey in the art of Kong Shin Bup under the watchful eye of GM Timmerman at the age of 48. God willing and the the body holds up I am working towards earning my black belt this November. Can it happen after 40, YES! if you want it bad enough. Know you limitations, be dedicated and never say you are too old. With Great Respect, Manfred Fischer DBN Regards, Jason --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 06:05:52 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jason E. Thomas" Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] (no subject) To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Seems to me much of this issue is somantics. Is MDK a Kwan, a style or organization? >From your post you definitively call it atleast 2 if not 3. Can an organziation supercede its creator? Hwang Gee changed some people do things the older way he taught. If James Neismith decided people should roll the basket ball instead of dribble and started a new way that didn't catch on, who would be right? The $3 Million dribblers or 5,000 rollers? Which would be basket ball if they both claimed the name? Regards, Jason John Hancock wrote: "...my instructor's instructor was Hwang Kee. That made him MDK, it made me MDK, it makes my "Korean Karate" students MDK." Wrong. If they left the MDK...and if you ARE Taekwondo...THEY DID...then he abdicated his membership in the MDK. Obviously he changed the curriculum or went with a curriculum change ergo...what you got taught was NOT the MDK curriculum. Therefore...you are not the MDK...nor did you learn MDK style...whether you keep and teach the tenents the MDK adopted and propogated (which hardly would make you MDK on that basis alone) or not. OK...try this: I went to Western Kentucky University where I obtained my degree. Am I an alumni? Yes. Am I representative of WKU. No...not hardly. While I was there I had a professor who obtained his Ph.D. from the University of Chicago. I he a alumni of that school? Yes. Is he a representative of it? No. He works for WKU...and he is a representative of WKU. No one is saying you DON'T have a LINEAGE connection to the MDK....I'm just saying YOU AREN'T MDK...and for the life of me...I can't figure out why it would be so important to you to tell people you ARE, unless you are just trying to impress them because of the MDK reputation (which you aren't entitled to). Frankly....since the change over to SBD...the MDK reputation ain't so great anymore. It is either that....or just plain obstinancy against suffering the change. You can tell yourself all day long that you are MDK...but it won't ever actually be (unless of course you want to give up everything you are doing now...put on a white belt...and start paying Hwang Hyun Chul some fees). I personally don't see a need to use the name MDK...and I DID train at the MDK in Seoul, Korea. But that was then...this is now....and I don't need to prop up my reputation by dropping somebody else's name or hanging it on my shingle. JH ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to School Guide! _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1700 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Regards, Jason --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 06:09:19 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jason E. Thomas" Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Lee, Won Kuk and Shotokan's Highest Dan (5th) Level... To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In his tapes as a 5th Dan in the interview session, Funakoshi Shihan says is a distant relative, a 5th cousin I believe. Jason Master Arce wrote: You are RIGHT Master Terry! Sorry about that! I meant *Grand Son, NOT Son! Thanks for catching my mistake! Peace.... :) *Shotokan Karate Do Founder Gichin Funakoshi's Grandson is Kenneth Funakoshi (9th Dan). __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1700 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Regards, Jason --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "FRANK CLAY" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 08:18:36 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Reply to JH Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net John, I think that the typical mistake we see is that we are comparing apples and oranges. You would not be a member of THE MDK, but you would still be MDK in terms of style. If one looks at the term school in English, it can be a location, or something less tangible. Certainly, I would never claim to be a teacher from THE MDK. But I do have teachers who have a lineage to the founder. I think that it is very interesting that other kwans do not have this problem. CDK is a very large kwan. While there are not many actually affiliated here with Korea CDK, if Master Park, Hae Man were to come, they'd be breaking their necks to get to train with him. I have also never heard of Master Park, Hae Man telling someone they are not CDK because they are not a card carrying member either. Now does that mean they are certified by the CDK? No. But they subscribe to CDK principles. Interestingly, I have met CDK guys who practice a range of hyung. Most seem to do WTF, but there are Chung Han and Pyung Ahn practitioners as well. I think we make too much out of things that mean little. I think that in essence we need to focus more on training. If the MDK wants to play this game, let them. They should simply be aware that what they are following is a rare model. To wit: I can learn and practice Shotokan, Yang Taiji, Hung Gar, etc all from different teachers with the name of the art always being the same. It is groups like the MDK that try to fracture the art... and like I said before it boils down to money. If you want to call yourself MDK, pay me fees. If you did not get your rank from me, there is an assimilation prgram, but it will cost you. Frank --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Rick Clark" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Rank Looney Tunes Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 08:53:09 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have not seen this advertisement, but one guy in my town advertised that he was X degrees of black belt. Not that he was a X degree black belt, but "degrees of". He was doing the same thing - adding up his black belt ranks and then using that in advertising. A subtle but important difference. By the way he does not do that any more :-) Later, Rick Clark www.ao-denkou-kai.org >-----Original Message----- >From: John Hancock [mailto:midnight503@hotmail.com] >Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 9:11 PM >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [The_Dojang] Rank Looney Tunes > >"Don't forget that traditional Shotokan only goes up to fifth dan. Fifth >was >end of the line. Not sure were everything else came from, but maybe we >should go back to something like that?"  Frank > >I agree.  5 Dans seem enough.  The rest seems a little....self effacing. >Unfortunately...I haven't had a lick of success in convincing anyone of >this......as no one want to 'give up' rank (take me for instance...I'm a >6th...but I don't really care about that...and I'd be just as please to >be referred to as a 5th.  It is the  junior members of my organization >that throw a fit everytime I start talking about dropping my 6th and us >just having 5 Dan ranks).   I met a guy in Louisville who advertises >himself as a 17th Dan.  No....I'm not making that up and you didn't read >it wrong.  He actually tells that to people.  Seems he has taken his Dan >ranks in about 4 arts and added them together to come up with this >number.  Because of this guy...I usually tell folks  I have a 360 Degree >Black Belt (it goes all the way around my body) and my title >is...."Emperor of Kentucky". > >JH > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- - > >Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's >FREE! >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 1700 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 09:53:59 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: MDK and Aggies! Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Once you attend classes at TAMU you are ALWAYS a Texas Aggie! The LSU professor would still be a Texas Aggie. I am a graduate of Texas A&M University, College of Architecture and a 3rd generation Texas Aggie. My wife transferred from TAMU to the University of Houston after we married and moved from College Station to Galveston. She then graduated from UH. 2 years later she passed her CPA. 2 decades later, she is now the CFO of a large corporation. After all this, she is still a Texas Aggie! I was born in Texas and lived the first 40 years of my life in Texas. I then spent 1/2 a decade living in Indiana and now live in North Dakota. I am still a Native Texan. Jere R. Hilland, Fargo, ND Red River Hapkido www.HapkidoSelfDefense.com <<>> --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 08:03:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Linda Valdivia Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] New to it all To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi John, I just had to add my two cents to the great number of responses you have already received. I started training in TKD the day before my 45th birthday. That was about 2 1/2 years ago. At first I trained 3-4 times per week, which very quickly became 5 times and now I train 6 days a week. I recently earned my 1st Dan. I still get sore after a really intense workout, especially if it is doing something we haven't done for a while, but I love it, and I am in way better shape, both physically and mentally than I was before I started training. So, welcome to the world of martial arts. I hope you will love it as much as I do! Linda John Moore wrote: Hi folks, I have just attended my second session with The Master and am feeling a little sore - legs/back etc.. Now being next door to 40 and heading towards 18 stone it is hardly likely that I was going to find it a piece of cake and this, due to the influence of friends, appeared to be a good idea to both keep fit and enjoy doing it at the same time. As the whole show is still a bit of a mystery to me I am loaded with questions and I hope this group will allow me the ability to ask away without looking a prune ;-) First off - how many folks join up at 40 years and manage to go the distance? Is it wise to attend twice a week or is once the limit? John Moore www.moorecomputersolutions.co.uk _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1700 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang "That which does not kill me makes me stronger" --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out! --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 08:06:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Linda Valdivia To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Question re: re-braakable boards Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi! I have a question for those of you that use re-breakable boards in your schools. Which ones have you found to be the best? I am interested in both ones that last the longest, but more importantly, that most represent the size of board they are supposed to represent. Any help will be appreciated. Thanks! Linda "That which does not kill me makes me stronger" --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today! --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 10:20:26 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Mater Terry Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master Terry I am curious. What style do you teach and what organization to you have membership with. I don't remember ever seeing it on a post. Also have you ever been a member of the MDK organization headed by HC Hwang or Hwang Kee Kwan Jang Nim. You seem to know several current SBD MDK members, and some past members that have recently left or been asked to leave. JC --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 08:32:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] market share Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I read "One more thing... Anyone in a town with a comparable pop. got an idea on how big I can realistically get?" MC Reply Statistically 2-2.5% of the nation does martial arts (based on gear sales records) So in your town of 13,000 thats 260 to 325 total amoung all schools in town.... If that's a rural area I would expand your market to the 15-20 minute driving range as rural folks are used to driving longer distances for services. Yours in jung do, Charles Richards www.mojakwan.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest