Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 03:01:55 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #410 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1700 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Master Whalen Seminar in Illinois 16 Oct (Kip McCormick) 2. Re: KMA, OshKosh.... (Bruce Sims) 3. shaved heads and goatees (michael tomlinson) 4. Re: Han Bok Info (Bruce Sims) 5. Worst Martial Arts Fashion Statements (Burdick, Dakin R) 6. Re: KMA, Osh Kosh and Bling-Bling (Dragons81@aol.com) 7. Re: KMA, Osh Kosh and Bling-Bling (Jon Payne) 8. EDGED WEAPONS DEFENSE SEMINAR (Fred Gommels) 9. traditional Do-Bak (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 10. 2 more cents (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 11. RE: 2 more cents (Kip McCormick) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Kip McCormick" To: The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 02:41:46 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Master Whalen Seminar in Illinois 16 Oct Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Folks: There's a lot of great things going on by several masters on this list during the month of October. Master Whalen is doing a seminar hosted by Mr. Joe Johns in Great Lakes, Illinois (Chicago suburb -- north). Should be a lot of fun and GREAT throw-down time. Plan for motrin and ice packs by the end of the seminar. For more info, contact Joe at jokido@comcast.net. Also, Master West is going to Maryland to give a seminar on 16 October. I've been to many of those in Maryland and they're fantastic. FYI. See ya! Kip --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 05:37:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: KMA, OshKosh.... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net ".....Well, that's an interesting point. My only reservation with that is the fact that 95% of so-called "traditional Korean MA" practiced today owes most of it's lineage to Japanese Martial Arts. Now, if you want to argue that the hanbok is more functional or practical as a practice garb...that's one thing. Arguing that it's adoption would better reflect the Korean heritage of the arts...hmmmm, I don't know about that one....." I know what you are saying and unfortunately I have been down this road so many times I am not sure it bears repeating. For my part, were I a Korean national descended from the same culture that was trashed by the Japanese Occupation I don't know that I would suffer the existence of their traditions or practices in my country at all. The Koreans have a sufficiently documented and practiced catalogue of martial traditions that they need not have adopted the Japanese material, let alone held on to it after the Japanese were ousted. In case people wonder if such feelings are still evident in Korea I can safely report that I saw one Japanese truck and two Japanese motorcycles the entire time I was in-country. I can also share that a person who stopped by the dochang to train was having trouble with his Japanese motorcyle and could not find anyone who would work on it. All that said, I still hold that if a person is going to train in KMA that the proper uniform for both MThand and weapons work need not be the do-gi or hakama but rather the Hanbok-inspired uniform we have been discussing. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:45:23 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] shaved heads and goatees Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Just for the record Craig, I had a shaved head and a goatee before the first UFC ever came out!! I shaved my head for the first time in 1975, back then it was just me, Yul Brenner and Telly Savalas... I first shaved my head for football convenience now it just plain looks better and is user friendly. But I know what you mean about the "look".. I teach high school and I see hundreds of kids with shaved heads now. Clothes that are 15 sizes too big and a click on attitude to go with them.. I laugh over the uniform thing also. Hey whatever floats your boat and makes you feel special and "different" from everyone else. I think in the martial arts world there are a lot of people that are not concerned with the training as much as finding a guru that can "show" them the way to whatever. Funny thing is, is that the Way is inside of you and not anywhere else. I like the old coaching approach of just wearing whatever and busting your ass everyday, that way you don't need a mountain top, guru, levitation guide, herbal stiffener, or special duds to wear. Michael Tomlinson _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! hthttp://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 06:12:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Han Bok Info Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear George: I have the receipt for the Han bok I purchased. The apparel store was in Taejeon and was overseen by a very accomodating saleperson who simply could not seem to do enough for us. Unfortunately I need to have someone else translate the address from Han gul so I am sure not to send you on a wild goose chase. There are also three phone numbers--- one of which I am sure is for this particular store. Give me a day to get back to you. Lastly, total "damage" for the Han bok I purchased was W320,000. However, that included a vest (about W45k) as well as three shirts @ W40K each, so actually, for the quality of the "suit" I purchased, the price was very reasonable. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 09:20:26 -0500 From: "Burdick, Dakin R" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Worst Martial Arts Fashion Statements Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Let me add to Craig's list: 5. (LeBell being #4) -- Joe Louis and the psychedelic swirl gis from the West Coast team in the early 1970s. It's wild Steve wild! I've got to say that I do love some of the modern hanbok designs -- very elegant! But I think I would only wear it for taijiquan - I wouldn't want to mess it up. Another design I really love (although i would NEVER wear it) is the yin-yang uniform worn by some Chinese baguazhang women. Very cool! Not for guys like me though -- I think you have to be a model to wear that stuff well! Yours in the arts, Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Dragons81@aol.com Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:58:53 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: KMA, Osh Kosh and Bling-Bling Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net That was a five star post. We need more posts about tacky martial arts fashion! --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Jon Payne" To: "The_Dojang" Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:56:08 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: KMA, Osh Kosh and Bling-Bling Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Craig, You left out the "Cobra Kai" sleeveless black gi with gold trim from the Karate Kid. Used to see a few like that. Waxing Off, Jon --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Fred Gommels" To: Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 11:05:43 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] EDGED WEAPONS DEFENSE SEMINAR Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net EDGED WEAPONS DEFENSE SEMINAR Sat, Nov. 6 1:00-5:00 pm MARTIAL ART FITNESS CENTERS, INC. - KOREA SIMMUDO ASSOCIATION 2849 S. Broadway Rochester, MN 55904 TOPICS COVERED: Legal aspects of use of force; Combat mind set Defense against: Threats / presentations and attacks, thrusts, slashes "CONTROLLED TACTICAL SOLUTIONS" - www.controlled-tactics.com CON-TACT Solutions is a training provider specializing in law enforcement Defensive tactics INSTRUCTOR - Jaime Vasquez * 25 years of martial arts experience * Current instructor for 2004 Minnesota Terrorism Symposium For Minnesota Law Enforcement Agencies * The edged weapons curriculum he will teach has been adopted by the US Marshall's Office Contact person: Fred Gommels 507-281-4335 gommels@rconnect.com www.mafci.com www.simmudo.com Fredrick J. Gommels Martial Art Fitness Centers, Inc. Korea/USA SimMuDo Association 2849 S. Broadway Rochester, MN 55904 Phn: 507-281-4335 Fax: 507-536-9020 www.mafci.com www.simmudo.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 15:54:05 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] traditional Do-Bak Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Food for thought; I have been reading some of the recent post about traditional Korean Do-Boks. I will have to confirm some of what am about to write due to the fact I am at a remote location. I am not sure of the materials used at the time but I do remember being shown a book written by Grandmaster Hwang Kee in 1949. I was shown this book by Grandmaster HC Hwang. The do-bak GM Hwang Kee was wearing was the same as we wear now. That was 1949 only 4 years after the establishing of the 5 original Kwans. GM Hwang Kee was wearing a White belt. I was told he began to use trim on the Moo Duk Kwan do-baks in the late 1950s' to separate his school from the other schools and to connect to Korean history. Separation---- No other schools at the time wore trimmed uniforms although I am not sure of the colored belt ranks at the time. HC Hwang Kwan Jang Nim said many of the other schools made negative comments about the trim, saying it was flashy and for show. It seems that now most Korean schools use some sort of trimmed uniform and have followed the Moo Duk Kwans lead ( If anyone has legitimate information about the history of there style or organization using trimmed Do-Baks first I am interested.) History---- It was during the 1950 GM Hwang Kee first translated the Moo Yei Do Bo Tong Gi. I can not say for sure but it is possible that his study at that time lead him to the uniforms worn by the Ko Ku Ryo Dynasty. I do happen to have with me a copy of the green belt Tang Soo Do (Soo Bahk Do) Moo Duk Kwan instructional guide. On page 151 there is a picture of the dress worn by the Ko Ku Ryo Dynasty. The male dress looks identical to the Do-Bak worn in the Moo Duk Kwan although I can not identify the color because it is in black and white. It also shows a picture of the female dress which is similar but obviously not the same. This picture confirms to me that the do-bak I wear is connected to Korean history. I do agree that uniforms in the US have become a fashion statement. The do-bok should be just something to train in, nothing else, although I think it should reflect your styles history. I can only speak as a Soo Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan member but I am proud of the uniform I wear because it is connected to Korean history, but it is just a uniform. I think to many people want to wear satin and a hundred patches to show everyone how good they are. That shows no humility and goes against the core of martial art training. More people should concentrate on technical skill and moral character and leave the fashion to hollywood. JCGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 16:10:02 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] 2 more cents Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Speaking as a Moo Duk Kwan Soo Bahk Do member. "Moo" means martial or military. If you have ever been in the military would would quickly understand the need for a uniform. Rank identification--Oneness as a group--- I mean the word uniform means "the same" I feel that all students of a school should be uniform, and that rank should be the only uniform variances made within a group. That does not mean that a black belt (midnight blue for us) gets to wear anything different than a traditional uniform. He/She just gets to change the rank insignia, which in our case would be trim and color of belt. We do allow a federation patch to identify the organization, and instructors can wear a Sa Bom or Kyo Sa tab under the patch to identify position or title. For me and my school--I can assure you no one will show to train in a "T" shirt or in a satin uniform. It is simply not military. JCGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Kip McCormick" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] 2 more cents Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 17:46:48 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Folks: Be careful of translating one meaning of a Korean word. Both "moo" and "bok" have several meanings, just as "do," etc. I understand what you're trying to say in your posting, but I just want to warn about one of the tough things of the Korean language, which has been kicking my butt for several years and I'm not winning, is that there are multiple meanings to words. Kip (which means "heap" or "pile" in Russian -- can you believe that?) >From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: >Subject: [The_Dojang] 2 more cents >Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 16:10:02 -0500 > >Speaking as a Moo Duk Kwan Soo Bahk Do member. "Moo" means martial or >military. If you have ever been in the military would would quickly >understand the need for a uniform. Rank identification--Oneness as a >group--- >I mean the word uniform means "the same" > >I feel that all students of a school should be uniform, and that rank >should >be the only uniform variances made within a group. That does not mean that >a >black belt (midnight blue for us) gets to wear anything different than a >traditional uniform. He/She just gets to change the rank insignia, which in >our case would be trim and color of belt. We do allow a federation patch to >identify the organization, and instructors can wear a Sa Bom or Kyo Sa tab >under the patch to identify position or title. For me and my school--I can >assure you no one will show to train in a "T" shirt or in a satin uniform. >It >is simply not military. > >JCGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : >http://explorer.msn.com >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 1700 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest