Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 14:58:02 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #416 - 14 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1700 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. SBD outside the US ? (Ray Terry) 2. Re: What to wear? (Yuribeast@aol.com) 3. RE: uniforms (Kip McCormick) 4. RE: what to wear/dobaks (Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy) 5. Dr. Jung Hwan Park (was Re: Last Dragon) (Christopher Spiller) 6. Re: Does anyone support or argue these points? (Ken) 7. Last Dragon on DVD!! (michael tomlinson) 8. Uniforms...last word from me (Stovall, Craig) 9. Military (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 10. shoes (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 11. Trainin' Nekkid (Bert Edens) 12. knee pain (None) 13. Re: Uniforms...last word from me (jeffrey kiral) 14. Re: nekkid training (ChunjiDo@aol.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 09:14:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] SBD outside the US ? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Just wondering... Is Soo Bahk Do mainly found in the US these days? There doesn't seem to be much SBD (or TSD) in South Korea, but not sure how well it has permeated Europe or the rest of the world. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Yuribeast@aol.com Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 12:14:50 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: What to wear? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 10/1/2004 4:11:38 AM Pacific Standard Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: It is good to train in the type of clothing you will probably be attacked in. While self defense is fine, I find it interesting that most people here are treating that as their number one priority. If the point is not obvious, then sorry to bother you. Barry --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Kip McCormick" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] uniforms Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 09:12:00 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Uniforms. My thoughts: Never, never, never, train in edible underwear. Man, it's sticky (so I've heard). Have a great weekend! Kip --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 12:49:54 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: what to wear/dobaks Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "to heck with it...i say we all train naked ;)" PLEASE let me know when you plan on hosting a seminar! :) Preferrably more female than male attendees please..... Gotta see the flyer for that one too! :) James Morgan GTKDA --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 10:37:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Spiller To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Dr. Jung Hwan Park (was Re: Last Dragon) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Message: 2 > From: BK4Leg@aol.com > Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 23:23:37 EDT > Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Last Dragon > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > Coming briefly out of lurk mode : > > This movie also featured Mike Starr as one of the > bad guys. Before becoming > an actor, Mike had earned his black belt in > TaeKowndo and Hapkido back in the > early 1970s at the original dojang in Flushing of > GrandMaster Dr. Jung Hwan > Park. Mike was very strong, and more than once sent > me airborne with a side > kick, sending me to go splat against the wall. > > This is the same school that the late Grandmaster > Mike Wolmershauser used to > come to from Massachusetts when first learning > hapkido. > > regards, > Bernie I've heard of Dr. Park a few times (and, iirc, he used to have an add in "Taekwon-Do Times" for a TKD and HKD organization) but don't know his background. Any information or interesting stories to share? (Besides being kicked into the wall, I mean ;-) Taekwon, Chris __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Ken" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Does anyone support or argue these points? Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 13:59:38 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net sound like some pretty good points! ----- Original Message ----- From: "foxdragon" To: Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 9:46 AM Subject: [The_Dojang] Does anyone support or argue these points? > This article was sent to me from another list. > > > This is for you, and for you to share > with your wife, your children, everyone you know. > After reading this, forward it to someone you care about. It never > hurts to be careful in this crazy world we live in. > > 1. Tip from Tae Kwon Do: The elbow is the strongest point on your > body. If you are close enough to use it, do! > > 2. Learned this from a tourist guide in New Orleans. If a robber > asks for your wallet and/or purse, DO NOT HAND IT TO HIM. Toss it > away from you....chances are that he is more interested in your > wallet and/or purse than you, and he will go for the wallet/purse. > RUN LIKE MAD IN THE OTHER DIRECTION! > > 3. If you are ever thrown into the trunk of a car, kick out the back > tail lights and stick your arm out the hole and start waving like > crazy. The driver won't see you, but everybody else will. This has > saved lives. > > 4. Women have a tendency to get into their cars after shopping, > eating, working, etc., and just sit (doing their checkbook, or > making a list, etc. DON'T DO THIS!) The predator will be watching > you, and this is the perfect opportunity for him to get in on the > passenger side, put a gun to your head, and tell you where to go. AS > SOON AS YOU GET INTO YOUR CAR, LOCK THE DOORS AND LEAVE. > > 5. A few notes about getting into your car in a parking lot, or > parking garage: > > A.) Be aware: look around you, look into your car, at the > passenger side floor, and in the back seat. > B.) If you are parked next to a big van, enter your car from the > passenger door. Most serial killers attack their victims by pulling > them into their vans while the women are attempting to get into > their cars. > C.) Look at the car parked on the driver's side of your vehicle, > and the passenger side. If a male is sitting alone in the seat > nearest your car, you may want to walk back into the mall, or work, > and get a guard/policeman to walk you back out. IT IS ALWAYS BETTER > TO BE SAFE THAN SORRY. (And better paranoid than dead.) > > 6. ALWAYS take the elevator instead of the stairs. (Stairwells are > horrible places to be alone and the perfect crime spot). > > 7. If the predator has a gun and you are not under his control, > ALWAYS RUN! The predator will only hit you (a running target) 4 in > 100 times; And even then, it most likely WILL NOT be a vital organ. > RUN! > > "snip" > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 1700 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 18:25:14 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Last Dragon on DVD!! Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Last Dragon on DVD..I didn't know this, dudes I'll buy it this weekend.. now can you all tell me one thing????? WHO IS THE BADDEST MO FO LOW DOWN AROUND THIS TOWN!! I CAN'T HEAR YOU!! Michael Tomlinson _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 13:28:06 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Uniforms...last word from me Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Well, the uniform thing has certainly become an emotional subject...at least for one of us (up the dosage, Bruce). To me, I think the root issue is that we all train for different purposes, and those purposes manifest themselves in different ways in regard to the different peripheral issues. Those peripheral issues being things like uniforms, school etiquette, do/don't use foreign terminology, ownership of names/arts, importance of lineage, etc. At least some of us would trumpet the importance of being cultural stewards in the martial arts. They may insist, "No matter what we do we must always be conscious and respectful of the nations and societies that spawned these arts.". Well, let me tell you why I don't necessarily agree with this premise. In my honest opinion, nationalism has no place in martial arts. I know that people love to categorize martial arts by way of national origin...Korean, Japanese, Brazilian, French, Thai, Filipino, etc. In the context of taxonomy, I have absolutely no problem with this. For some purposes of understanding and comparison it makes absolute sense to use nationality as a category to describe certain martial arts. Heck, it's a convenient way to limit the discussion on this list, and draw together people who have some common interests. Works there! Even then, the use of nationality often leaves me scratching my head. For example, TKD and Haidong Gumdo are both considered "Korean Martial Arts". But TKD has much more in common with French Savate than it does with Haidong Gumdo. Seems to me that the taxonomy has some critical flaws when applied as a universal standard of classification. Then we have a more serious issue. The problem arises when people take those nationalistic classifications and start using those as some sort of half-assed guiding principles. "Oh, this is a Korean martial arts school...so, since Koreans never did THIS, then we can't do THIS either...and since Koreans only did THAT, then we can only do THAT also. To do/be/become anything different would be a slap in the face of those Koreans that came before us. And why isn't your hanbok properly ironed in the traditional Korean fashion?". I know people like to take the intellectual high-road by passing themselves off as self-appointed cultural stewards and custodians of tradition. Bully for them. I guess it's more notable than spending one's life picking up barflies at the local tavern. Just be aware that they do not do this out of some altruistic spirit of indebtedness to those honorable souls that came before them. No, they do it for the same reason that the local womanizer does his thing...it's something to make them feel good about themselves. Anybody who doesn't "get" this fundamental truth of human nature has about as much chance of understanding a "martial art" as a chimpanzee has of winning the world chess championship. Understand yourself first... So, I have to chuckle when people go out of their way to let us cretins know just how bad we're screwing things up. Personally, I'd rather hear them drone on about how they're doing things right...that's what they're trying to say anyway. I'm really thrilled that some of us got to ride on a big pretty airplane, and get to peek at the secret notebooks. I'm sure the experience was quite similar to the middle-aged man who just acquired the last issue necessary to finish out his 'Fantastic Four' collection. However, I'm afraid that the experience will only serve to elevate the self-constructed pedestal that the anointed individual happily resides upon. I hear what people are saying when they talk about understanding the "cultures" that gave way to martial arts. To better understand Hapkido, I guess one could explore the environment from which it's pioneers sprang. I suppose an in-depth study of the history and dynamics of Daito-Ryu would be in order. A survey of the battlefield ryu-ha that provided a birthing pool for Daito-Ryu and other such jujutsu traditions would give me yet more insight. Understanding the complex economic and societal factors that provided the foundation for the feudal Japanese warlord system, and gave necessity to the creation of said ryu-ha would provide yet another layer of understanding. Would any of this make my wrist locks any better? Well... The WAY is in the training. It is NOT in OTHER people. It is NOT within the superficial "traditions" of the art. It is NOT in the cultural trappings of the people who came before you. Some people would have you believe these things because those things can be easily aped. You can easily act like other people, put on certain uniforms, hang out with the right crowd, talk a certain way, analyze things until they're beaten to death, and tell stories that would put an insomniac to sleep. People LOVE that crap about uniforms, and lineage, and adopting other people's culture, and dropping names because it's EASY. Shutting the hell up and training for whatever benefit you can get from it is HARD. Hell, just seeing the benefits are hard sometime. I just know in my heart that the payoff is not "earning" the moral superiority of being able to label myself a certain "thing". That's nothing...it just requires a little lip service, and the ability to ignore one's current existence. Sanitariums are full of people who think they are Napoleon. I also hear what people are saying when they offer something along the following, "Martial arts isn't just about techniques and fighting.". Oooooookay. Tell you what...let's take away all of the techniques and fighting and let's see what we've got left. Mutual admiration societies? "Gee, your uniform looks nice tonight. So traditional.". I bet the classes would be a lot of fun. Bow in...bow out...go home. Sonuvabitch...I wish college had been this easy. "There's a test on Friday...since we don't study anything you'll just be required to write your name. See you at the game on Saturday. Go State!". The benefits of martial arts training are numerous...skills, conditioning, confidence, achievement, discipline, focus, structured living, health consciousness, etc. Just remember that all of this stuff is a by-product of the training. Shut up and train...it is the way. What is training? Cultivation of technique, development of fighting skill, and improvement/maintenance to the body/mind structure. What is mental masturbation? Trying to get the world to believe otherwise. Some seek image, and some seek substance. Contrary to the commercial...image is nothing. For those that like to train, sweat, learn, improve, have fun, and throw down. My hat is off to you. Know that you have a kindred spirit in the world. Train hard...I know I am. Craig "Having a Moment of Clarity" Stovall CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entities named above. If this email was received in error or if read by a party which is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, disclosure, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error or are unsure whether it contains confidential or privileged information, please immediately notify us by email or telephone. You are instructed to destroy any and all copies, electronic, paper or otherwise, which you may have of this communication if you are not the intended recipient. Receipt of this communication by any party shall not be deemed a waiver of any legal privilege of any type whatsoever as such privilege may relate to the sender. --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 13:42:34 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Military Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sir; My military service is not the issue although I am a former Marine. The issue is the "T" shirt military or not. I understand why you say what you say, because in the US military a "T" shirt is worn during many aspects of training, In the Military and in martial arts training there is a time and place for that. We go to camps where we wear street clothes to train, and there is value in that type of training, when I run at home I wear a "T" shirt. but when I train in the traditional class room I wear a Do-bok. I recently attended a military graduation of a student I have in the USAF. It was great to see the military protocol and all the airman in uniform as they came down the bomb run off the parade grounds. What kind of message would have been sent if one flights would have been in "T" shirts. If you are in or where in the military there were rules about dress code. for example you didn't wear your cover inside. I am just saying that to train in a traditional style you should dress in traditional do-bok, although there may be times and places where other dress may be accepted. What branch of service were you in sir, or were you really in the military yourself. By the way isn't military arts or martial arts what we study. JC --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 13:53:07 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] shoes Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Eddie The uniform issue is getting old , but you mentioned training in shoes. This goes beyond the issue of proper dress, this hinders the ability to gain technical ability in a kicking art. It's like learning to type while wearing boxing gloves. You can't develop a feel for impact in a particular part of the foot (ie heel or ball of the foot) You gain no conditioning of the foot due to repeated impact with a target. The uniform issue is about history and philosophy more so than technique. I have practiced weapons, and grappled in a do-bok and it does have its advantages and disadvantages. But still it can be done. Shoes on the other hand !!!! I have worn shoes to train in at camps, and learning to kick while wearing shoes is an important lesson I think all should learn. But to wear shoes to train in as a regular part of training in my opinion will not help you develop solid kicking skill. JC --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 14:02:32 -0500 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Bert Edens Subject: [The_Dojang] Trainin' Nekkid Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net At 08:41 10/1/04, you wrote: >to heck with it...i say we all train naked ;) > >Chajonshim Martial Arts Academy Greetings, ma'am :) You know, I had to laugh... One of our instructors (now a 3rd dan, her husband is a 1st dan, I think) used to REALLY hate grappling. Could not handle it at all... My instructor suggested she grapple nekkid at home with her husband... Don't really want to know what happened there, but she did get over her fear... :-) Of course, this isn't an option to suggest to most students, but it worked for students who are married and both advanced ranks :) I definitely wouldn't suggest it to kids, unless you want the FBI visiting :) <> - Bert Edens, 2nd Dan Recommended Springdale, Arkansas --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 13:18:35 -0700 (PDT) From: None To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] knee pain Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > John Vanderhee wrote: > I started taekwondo about 2 months ago. I seem to > have developed some knee > problems and I'm wondering if that will go away > eventually as my body and > legs get used to kicking, stretching etc. I'm 28 > years old and I train 3-4 > times per week... Monday-Thursday... If anyone has > experienced something > like this and can give me some insight on if this > will be an ongoing problem > or will it go away, I would appreciate it. John, The most probable reason that you are experiencing knee pain is that you are kicking to 'skeletal' extension, not 'muscular' extension. If you are kicking so that your knee locks out to a bone on bone extension point, you will inevitably have knee problems. It is a very common problem among new martial artists. It has little to do with proper warm up and more to do with proper kicking technique. Many older martial artists who were not instructed properly in their earlier careers have arthritis problems resulting from this. Take it seriously. Pain means you aren't doing something right. In large classes, the instructor sometimes forgets to instruct newbies the proper method of kicking. Most of the time, it's not a significant problem because most new students can't generate enough force to damage themselves. You sound as if you are an exception. You should kick so that your leg (or arm, in a punch) is extended to the natural length of your muscles, but not to the bone on bone contact of full joint extension. In other words, stop *just* short of full joint locking. It is a control issue. Perhaps some other list member can explain it better than I can. It is much easier to demonstrate than explain. Hal Copeland Atlanta HanMuDo __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "jeffrey kiral" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Uniforms...last word from me Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 16:35:30 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net yeah....what he said..... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stovall, Craig" To: Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 11:28 AM Subject: [The_Dojang] Uniforms...last word from me > Well, the uniform thing has certainly become an emotional subject...at least> For those that like to train, sweat, learn, improve, have fun, and throw > down. My hat is off to you. Know that you have a kindred spirit in the > world. Train hard...I know I am. > > Craig "Having a Moment of Clarity" Stovall --__--__-- Message: 14 From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 18:34:49 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: nekkid training Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Yeah, you say that now....wait until grappling class, then see what you say....LMAO Jye ChunjiDo@aol.com wrote: to heck with it...i say we all train naked ;) _____________________________ noooooo.....see what YOU say, sir, after the "monkey reaches for the peach" technique ;)...lol take care, melinda :) --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest