Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 17:37:02 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #418 - 15 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1700 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. John Vanderhee knee pain (George Peters) 2. Dr. Park (Todd Miller) 3. RE: Shoes (Michael Rowe) 4. Re: You are the Last Dragon (Jeff Hazen) 5. Re: Last Dragon (Bruce Sims) 6. Re: Pivotal Point (Bruce Sims) 7. Late Congrats (Braeswood Martial Arts) 8. check this out (michael tomlinson) 9. Soo Bahk Do World Wide (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 10. Re: RE: Shoes (Ray Terry) 11. Re: Soo Bahk Do World Wide (Ray Terry) 12. Im back online (Manuel Maldonado) 13. Uniform (bill mccune) 14. Re: The way is in the training (Kevin Luttrell) 15. Clarity (Gladewater SooBahkDo) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "George Peters" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 23:23:06 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] John Vanderhee knee pain Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Good Sir, In your post I noticed something very interesting that I would point to as being a major part of your problem. You say you train Monday thru Thursday 3 to 4 times a week. This in itself leads me to strongly suspect that you do not allow yourself sufficient "recovery time". If you do the same or similar things in every class, there is a very strong case for this. Younger practictioners may beg to differ, but time will teach them about repetitive stress and recovery time. Proper technique is also very important, but a competent instructor should correct a student in this. Maybe try going to class every other day instead of three or four consecutive days. Esteemed Membership: This is a subject I have often wished to ask about and perhaps make comment on. I try very hard to do different activities in classes so as to avoid the aforementioned problems,ie; if we do a HARD kicking class today, I make note of this and tomorrow we will have a class on hand techniques or maybe self defense. Sometimes when it seems everyone needs a break, we will have what I call a "general" class for a few days.(in these classes we touch a little on everything, that way nothing gets overworked) Students find the rythym in the flow of classes and adjust to classes in accordance with their bodies tolerance. This is only one of the myriad things the federation taught when I was training to become an instructor, and I must say that I do not see much regard for this in many schools. Anyway, given the importance of this, I am curious as to the thoughts and practices by DD members on this subject. Respectfully, George Peters Tang Soo! _________________________________________________________________ On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Todd Miller" To: Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 23:24:31 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Dr. Park Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dr. Park is predominatly Taekwondo. His Hapkido training with the founder was only 4 months. He is mostly TKD with a little Hapkido. Take care Todd --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Michael Rowe" To: Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 23:53:31 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Shoes Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Eddie writes <> The foot can develop a feel for impact, even with shoes, depending on the shoes. <> Obviously you have never kicked in today's martial arts shoes or even wrestling shoes. These work great. And if you spend the majority of your time training barefoot, then you will truly be surprised when you have to kick in shoes, the experience is different. I was taught that the following were reasons for training barefoot: 1. Creates Natural Balance 2. Safety 3. Ancient Asian Custom Let me debunk these reasons: 1. A martial art shoe or wrestling shoe will maintain a natural balance environment they do not have thick soles. 2. Both the martial art shoe and wrestling shoe are made out of lightweight material that will not harm an individual if struck by them, and they are not bulky so you can, if you want to, place pads over the shoe to cushion them. 3. Ancient Asian customs are nice, and if you are a traditionalist this is good. For wearing shoes: 1. Prevent the spread of fungus. Athletes foot is actually at a higher rate in martial arts schools. If you train barefoot it is almost required that you clean the mats daily. 2. In the US we wear shoes in our lives. Why not train in shoes. 3. Keeps workout floor clean. Michael Rowe --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 01:08:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Hazen To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] You are the Last Dragon Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Eric VanSickle > EV> There's going to be a sequel to "The Last Dragon"? Are the two stars EV> still around? And why have a sequel around 20 years after the original? "The Very Last Dragon"? Heh. And if you have to ask why... you haven't been corrupted by Corporate America the way most of the US seems to be. ;-) --jeff "To win without risk is to triumph without glory." -Pierre Corneille --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 04:21:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Last Dragon Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Eric: ".....And why have a sequel around 20 years after the original?....." Probably because the first one left us with so many unresolved philosophical conflicts. :-) Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 04:44:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Pivotal Point Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Perhaps Craigs point about nationalism having no place in training speaks to the crux of what the uniform issue has pulled out. During my recent stay in Korea I can safely report that the folks that I met were nothing like the Koreans I have come to know in the US. In fact, I would say that the Koreans I met had nothing in common with Michael Breenes' assessment of the Korean mentality and HE is considered something of an authority. In like manner the application of the Confucian model with its overtones of deference to seniors and a proper place for everyone and everything in Korea was NOTHING like its invocation here in the States where it is used as a club to keep folks in line. Having said that much, please let me bring this down to cases. 1.) If your idea of the Korean Martial Arts is limited to physical activity then enjoy your investment. Just know that the result of such a position is to reduce an expression of Korean culture to a Phys Ed class. I can see Americans doing this--- just like reducing the dining experince to a drive-up window and a quick "do you want that super-sized?" 2.) Gelding a martial art by ignoring or discounting its cultural and intellectual properties and underpinnings is not laudable. The concept of developing ones character as a function of training to a particular principle or code goes back generations and continues to be used in todays' military. I wouldn't mind this position so much except that the people who invoke it, while cutting every corner possible, still want to call what they do a MARTIAL art. You may not like to hear it, but stripping practice of its attendent cultural context makes you no more of a martial artist than a person shooting at stop signs is a competition rifleman. I guess it only remains to understand why it is that if the cultural context of the Korean martial arts means so little why are people making use of their time by contributing on a Net dedicated to KOREAN MA? Sounds like nothing more than trolling-by-another-name to me. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Braeswood Martial Arts" To: Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 07:10:10 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Late Congrats Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello Charles, A late congrats on another great Mojo Kwan seminar. I understand the nature walk was a great site to see :) I hope you, your family and your students are doing well and look forward to training with you soon. It would be great if you could make it to Houston this month. Kat --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 13:30:45 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] check this out Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Guys here is how much times have changed since I started teaching in schools. In 1989 I was an art teacher in a middle school in Florida.. Needless to say Art and fun go together.. Me being a football coach, wrestler, martial artist and kind of a big opposing guy... well my art classes were filled with most of the problem kids and thugs that we had on campus. I actually had the principal several times come to me and say "hey we got this big boy causing trouble in another elective class and some of the parents of the other kids are complaining and are concerned so can I just put this kid in your art class for the whole year"? So I would take in all these hard cases.... I would have about 30 kids to a class all drawing and painting and doing art projects and I kept a VCR and TV in my room... while these kids were working I would actually play movies like teenage mutant ninja turtles, the last dragon, etc.. you name it if it had to do with martial arts, had a moral story, and wasn't very graphic but geared more to kids I played it.... it was crazy,,, the principal would stick his head in my room to see if I was alive and here would be this huge croud of the worst kids on campus, it would be dead quiet and everyone would be working and watching the kung fu movies.... the principal would smile at me and just go on....it was priceless... Now if you put a movie on like those you would get fired... you have to fill out a form and it has to be approved by 3 different people higher up before you can even attempt to watch a movie in school.... oh well,, at least I saw the last dragon actually Help some kids once upon a time... Michael Tomlinson _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 12:47:54 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Soo Bahk Do World Wide Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I was in New York last year for the US Soo Bahk Do National Tournament. 17 countries attended from Greece, Itally, Korea, Canada, Mexico, Switzerland, the Netherlands, Argintina, France, England and others. The Soo bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan is doing very well in the world wide therater. In Korea there is a new Do-Jang scheduled to open to the public on the 15ht of this month. I have a friend that will be teaching there. The small central Do-jang will also continue to opperate under the instruction of Lee Sa bom nim. JCGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] RE: Shoes To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 11:33:17 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Obviously you have never kicked in today's martial arts shoes or even > wrestling shoes. These work great. And if you spend the majority of your > time training barefoot, then you will truly be surprised when you have > to kick in shoes, the experience is different. > ... Even quality kung fu shoes are good to train in. Gm Ji has been teaching Hapkido in them for a great many years. Good training shoes just make good sense, and have now become 'traditional'. My personal favs are the Adidas shoes and the Discipline shoes. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Soo Bahk Do World Wide To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 11:22:10 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I was in New York last year for the US Soo Bahk Do National Tournament. 17 > countries attended from Greece, Itally, Korea, Canada, Mexico, Switzerland, > the Netherlands, Argintina, France, England and others. The Soo bahk Do Moo > Duk Kwan is doing very well in the world wide therater. Good. How wide spread is SBD outside of the US? i.e. are there was many SBD dojangs outside the US as there is within the US? Just curious. > In Korea there is a > new Do-Jang scheduled to open to the public on the 15ht of this month. I have > a friend that will be teaching there. The small central Do-jang will also > continue to opperate under the instruction of Lee Sa bom nim. Where will the new dojang be located? Seoul? Did you ever learn what happened Master KY Seen? He was the instructor at the SBD MDK when I was there. Christmas cards to him have been returned the last year or two... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Manuel Maldonado" To: Instructor@RealTaeKwonDo.com, PCPILOT@SATX.RR.COM, FSgt173d@aol.com, llocke@twcny.rr.com, surfrmunkee@hotmail.com, boniel@tampabay.rr.com, the_dojang@martialartsresource.net, WLugo@tampabay.rr.com Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 14:29:12 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Im back online Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Just wanted to let all of you know that Im back on line. Master Maldonado ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "bill mccune" To: Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 16:39:12 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Uniform Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net With out his tights Superman is only Clark Kent. --__--__-- Message: 14 Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 15:44:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Kevin Luttrell To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: The way is in the training Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Well, I didnt mean to make a big deal out of the uniform thing, just adding my 2 cents. Not pointing fingers at anyone, Just stating my personal view and what Ive been taught. For that matter, A better understanding of others ideas and practices in comparison to my own. But since you like to hear about how all the cretens are screwing it all up, I though I might add another nickle.... Personally, I think a better understanding of cultures gives one insight of what it takes to prepare to sacrifice you own life for what you believe.( by the way I am a veteran) Now today, I dont think many people who train take the same attitude as a warrior who is preparing for combat. The REAL, distinct possibility that he is willing, through his training and action on the battlefield, to sacrifice his life for his country, and the things which he holds true. On the battlefield, all the perfect techniques in the world wont save you if you cant think clearly. And at times after complete physical exhaustion, the only thing that drives you is purely spirit, (you know the reason you train to do things instinctively rather than thinking about it first?) Honing your body as a perfect fighting machine for what purpose. FOR FUN??? Yes, some of the stories are unbelievable. The cultural heritage of all martial arts, (not only asian), are important to its pracitioners. Not to sacrifice the training of the body, mind and spirit through physical practice, but don't leave out the principle of why (historically) people trained. The uniform and traditions of the training facility are methods to study and physically link a modern day practioner with the heritage of their chosen art. They are E-X-A-M-P-L-E-S. Personally, I agree that It does make a person feel proud to carry on a tradition, be a part of a warrior heritage. To state that Nationalism doesn't belong, reeeeally shows that some people dont really get it. Hey, its not Korean, or Japanese, or European that counts, for that matter. Its one thing to be proud of personal accomplishments and another to be proud of carrying on a tradition. Its the common bond that all warriors hold that is important. The all held Principle beliefs, ( not necessarily the same beliefs) , that they were willing to die for. They all were soldiers, they trained with a certain discipline and responsibility to use their training for a specific purpose. And if they dishonored their peers by using their training for some other purpose they were considered traitors and most of the time punished by death. (incidentally, todays soldiers can be punished the same way) They trained and believed in the purpose of their training. Generally, it was Not recreational. When Martial Arts masters turned to offering recreational martial arts, They chose to retain some of the traditions, uniforms, cultural traditions, training methods because they identified some value for those methods. It is good to study those men and their reasons in comparison to the battlefield warrior. Generally a certain pattern can be found. I personally think alot more about what I will leave behind when I am gone and hope I leave something worth remembering and practicing. I think maybe warriors who knew that they might not return from battle might have thought some of the same thoughts. I know that coming to a realization of mortality makes a person think a lot differently at least it did for me. And I really didnt think much about it before I had cancer. But it is very important to consider and I know that when it hits you in the face, your point of view will change too. All those corny phrases from the movies and such, "the way is in the Training, it cannot be taught, it must be experienced." They take on a more serious tone when you realize your days might be numbered on both hands. (incidently, I have been cancer free for 5 years and counting) So to all those serious Macho Ego maniacs who think your physical techniques are all its about....Hey keep training you have part of the picture and hopefully youll live longer cause your in great shape. But for those who have an interest in inspiring themselve to train harder. Study Martial Arts History and the people who lived and died. They were soldiers, Just like any soldier. Respect what they did and what they believed in. The rest of you who want to throw out all the "pomp and circumstance" maybe you should think about leaving out the "Martial" part of your "Art" cause its really Macho Arts you are practicing. I only hope that there is enough discipline taught to you that you might control yourself and not kill someone cause you havent learned anything about honor cause you had no examples to follow since your instructor didnt teach any history or cultural lessons, they were boring and scared off students, therefore they werent profitable so of course they have no value...chuck'em. And Yes, I am the Master, I have the book with all the secrets, look me up sometime if you cant read, I will read it too you. Visit The Martial Artist Foundation Official Website at http://www.sporttkd.com or join The Martial Artist Foundation Yahoo Group for free and keep up to e on Events: ="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themartialartistfoundation/join"> --__--__-- Message: 15 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 18:43:19 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Clarity Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr/Master Stovall I hope this finds you in good health and spirits. I wanted to write a responce to your last post. I agree with 90% of what you had to say. I too train very hard, some say to an extreme. You metioned we all train for different purposes. I have seen this for many years people come to the Do-Jang to train but when the training gets hard they would rather leave and join another school that trains less intence than at my school. I have talked to some that brag about how hard they train, but when I watched them I was less than impressed. You said that the WAY is training. I agree that the WAY or method of getting results is training. Training metally, and physically and spiritually. With that said can we agree that the martial arts is NOT just physical technique. I believe that to be a GOOD student and a GOOD teacher you must know all you can about the art you study. This includes the history, culture, and the protocals associated with that particular art. I find it important to be familuar with other forms of fighting styles although I think to many claim to be proficiant in styles they are only familar with, claiming to be balckbelts in several styles at the same time. I guess where we might disagree is where you discussed what was left when all the techniques where taken away. Well ... If I stopped training today I would still have courage, concentration, discipline, respect etc. I think those things are all part of the martial arts.and they are equally important as physical technique. Don't get me wrong I DO believe that intense training (as if there is another kind) is important, but I believe study of history and other aspects are of the same importance. If you took away all the study and only showed up to learn fighting techniques what would you have. Martial Arts training has protocal passed down from there place of origin that was developed to create a positive learning invironment, and Its hard to know where your going unless you know where you have been. Your own personal history and the knowledge you have of it has formed the opionions you posted. There is not a military gereral alive that has not studied history of warfare, and combat as it relates to his position. Again I don't think there is any substitude for real training, but I think the other aspects are some times over looked or shadowed as less important. Our Cho Dan test is 8 full hours of physical demonstration of technique. It involves sacrifices in travel and time, and in addition each candidate is required to write 4 2000 word essays on the history, and charactoristics of the art they study, as well as pass an oral exam on the same type material the day of the formal test. Not all pass (as in some schools). We do not sugar coat error in proformace, but the ones that do pass know that they earned the rank. JCGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest