Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:51:03 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #433 - 13 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1700 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Texas Master's Tour (Braeswood Martial Arts) 2. Re: Pointer (Beungood8@aol.com) 3. Re: Frank (Bruce Sims) 4. Kidding? (Frank Clay) 5. Kukkiwon (Frank Clay) 6. R Hackworth - Certs (Jon Payne) 7. Traditional Korean Martial Arts (chet reyes) 8. Re: R Hackworth - Certs (Vetle Roeim) 9. RE: R Hackworth - Certs (Rick Clark) 10. Re: Korean Fonts (ChunjiDo@aol.com) 11. request for full text (Moe) 12. Re: Traditional Korean Martial Arts (dean_lopez@houston-f-body.org) 13. RE: osceola, arkansas - good story (Howard Spivey) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Braeswood Martial Arts" To: Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 23:51:17 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Texas Master's Tour Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Don't forget OCTOBER 23RD Time is getting close for the first TEXAS MASTER'S TOUR!!!!! you can find registration forms at www.braeswoodmartialart.com/sem Hope to see you here for some great fun and food. Please call or email before the 13th to have $15.00 late registration fee waived at door. See you here on the 23rd!!!! Kat --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Beungood8@aol.com Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 01:27:00 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Pointer Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> Have you ever seen HAckworth or Pointer train? Hackworth looks as though the only thing he knows how to fight is a twinkie out of it's wrapper. I have heard things relative to his rank also. IS Pointer Legitimate? --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 05:24:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Frank Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Frank: Thank you for your interest in my sarcastic humor, though I suspect I need not be counseled regarded appropriate behavior by you or any of the former H.-supporters in your constellation of friends. How I counseled at the VA actually has less to do with my comments than the cynicism that comes from the incredible betrayal by folks such as yourself who damaged me and others like me in the name of the Korean Martial arts you do not understand and Commercialism which you exploited. The simple fact that you routinely find it necessary to use non-KMA material to disparage (as in the case of mentioning my counseling) tells me that while you may have moved away from H. politically, you are not above using his sort of criticism and tactics in your communications. I trust that even you can appreciate that continued comments such as your last post guarentees that your role in the unhappiness of the last few years may be forgiven but certainly not forgotten. Regards Bruce --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Frank Clay" To: Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 07:36:26 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Kidding? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Clint, You said :<< Hello, I'm a little bit puzzled. Doesn't it really matter if you don't have certification from a certain "master" from a certain TKD styles? My idea first is to learn self defense - protecting myself or my loved ones for that matter. If he gives "fake" certification, that doesn't count if you're facing a big fight or if you are in a fight.. as if you will carry that all the time and "I have this certificate to beat the crap out of you" thing. As for me, I don't really care if you have or don't have a certificate as long as I can protect myself from immediate danger. Just my 0.02 cents idea. Clint>> Under normal circumstances you would be right; however, these are not normal circumstances. You are talking about a man who knowingly and with intent defrauds people. I tested for and paid for my test in good faith. Only to find out that I had been duped. Perhaps it has not happened to you, but once it does, you feel raped. I personally could care less if my certificate is handwritten on a napkin, but I want the person I deal with to be honest with me. I refuse to have a relationship with someone who is consistently lying to me. Further, this person has made comments like I have the certs now, but only people who stayed with me will get them... well Clint that is illegal. This gentleman went out of his way to destroy Bruce Sims... and while I myself do not care much for him, no one deserves the treatment he was given. Of course, it can be argued that Bruce is partly to blame because of his animated exchanges, and not knowing when to silence himself, but what has Bruce's family done? Now you want to talk self defense... are you aware that if I pull a knife on you, I will most likely get you unless you are 25 foot away? And that is shooting with a side step. Many people have no real street experience. In my mind, they are dojang warriors, and to be honest, I hope, with all my heart, they get to stay that way. If they don't then something dreadful has happened. I would suggest you watch the police training video "Surviving Edged Weapons" and find training texts. Many of these can be purchased at your local firearms dealer that caters to law enforcement. There is one, something like Surviving Street Encounters that was written by three Federal agents. The information they present is an eye opener. The point being, don't confuse your martial arts training with the ability to fight. It gives you an advantage, and one more chance for survival, but only when used in the appropriate time and manner, as with any other tool. I think that much of what we are discussing comes down to basic ethics. Some of us have them, and some of us do not. If the intent of martial art is self defense, that is to protect oneself from harm, does that not include protecting the self from theft? Frank --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Frank Clay" To: Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 07:41:02 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Kukkiwon Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net TKDSID, <> First, I would question why anyone asking for help does not include their name. But secondly, no reputable instructor will do that for you. You will need to find a school that is a Kukkiwon TKD school and enroll. They need to ensure that you meet their compulsory standards first. If they do not do this, then you are basically being sucked into buying rank, and that is meaningless. As for suing, this has been a habit of this organization. I would recommend you file a complaint with the BBB and as I advised you in email, if you feel there has been some impropriety, you need to call your local authorities. Good luck. --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Jon Payne" To: "The_Dojang" Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 08:42:30 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] R Hackworth - Certs Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >>If he gives "fake" certification, that doesn't count if you're facing a >>big fight or if you are in a fight.. >> I understand what you are saying, but do you want to try to learn self-defense from a liar/coward? IMHO there's not much difference between a liar, murderer, and thief. If you want to learn to fight from that kind of crowd you can get free lesson's in prison. My 10 cents...Jon --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 07:05:39 -0700 (PDT) From: chet reyes To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Traditional Korean Martial Arts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Is anyone familiar with "World Jun tong Moosool Association"? From my understanding Juntong Moosool is suppose to mean traditional training or something of that sort. Please advise. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today! --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 16:38:13 +0200 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] R Hackworth - Certs From: "Vetle Roeim" Organization: Peoples Front Against Foobarization Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 10:57:22 -0400, Clint Cayson wrote: > Hello, > > I'm a little bit puzzled. Doesn't it really matter if you don't have > certification from a certain "master" from a certain TKD styles? Of course it matters. Kukkiwon certifications are recognized all over the world, and you may not be allowed to train as a black belt in some schools if you don't have one. Training TKD is more than simply learning self defense. [...] -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Rick Clark" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] R Hackworth - Certs Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:32:45 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >From: Vetle Roeim [mailto:vetro@online.no] > >On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 10:57:22 -0400, Clint Cayson >wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> I'm a little bit puzzled. Doesn't it really matter if you don't have >> certification from a certain "master" from a certain TKD styles? > > Of course it matters. Kukkiwon certifications are recognized all over >the world, and you may not be allowed to train as a black belt in some >schools if you don't have one. Training TKD is more than simply learning >self defense. >From my experience in the martial arts (started in 1962) its my opinion that a Kukkiwon certificate is important IF you wish to compete in a Kukkiwon sponsored tournament OR if you wish to train in another Kukkiwon school. Other than that it is just another certificate to other schools, associations, or groups and as such is treated the same as a certificate from any other organization. A certificate, no matter the issuing organization, does not insure uniform standards of performance or knowledge. If you want a certificate that is universally accepted in all schools - good luck. >From my limited experience with Kukkiwon TKD I would venture the opinion that they are more concerned with the sport application than the self-defense aspects. Later, Rick Clark www.ao-denkou-kai.org --__--__-- Message: 10 From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:22:38 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Korean Fonts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net hi folks, a long time ago i was looking for korean fonts. i found a bunch, but when my system crashed a week or so ago, i had failed to back those up. i remember someone else asking about the fonts and i'd emailed them all of them i had. was wondering if that person, whose name escapes me right now, or anyone else with korean fonts, would be willing to share. thanks! melinda Chajonshim Martial Arts Academy _www.cjmaa.com_ (http://www.cjmaa.com/) 1.573.673.2769 Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply _www.cjmas.com_ (http://www.cjmas.com/) 1.877.847.4072 --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Moe" To: Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:58:41 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] request for full text Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello Mr. de Valence, Thank you for the great post. I study Korean Martial Arts at a very traditional dojang run by Master Garrett Dewitt, and I cannot say that I am surprised by these findings. I would love to know how the authors of this study defined "traditional" TKD. Can you send me the full text of the paper? My email address is cynmoe@uslink.net. Thank you, sir. Respectfully, Cindy Moe --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:05:43 -0500 From: dean_lopez@houston-f-body.org To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Traditional Korean Martial Arts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Haven't heard of Jun Tong Moosool before, but Moosool or probably more correctly, Mu Sool, simply means "martial art", or "martial arts techniques". I did a google on "Jun Tong", and all I could find is that it refers to the "arrow case" in traditional Korean archery. Literally then, Jun Tong Moosool means "Traditional Korean Archery Arrow Case Martial Arts"? I'm not getting it. :) Dean Lopez Black Belt Candidate Kuk Sool Won of Katy, TX Quoting chet reyes : > Is anyone familiar with "World Jun tong Moosool Association"? From my > understanding Juntong Moosool is suppose to mean traditional training or > something of that sort. Please advise. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "Howard Spivey" To: Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 17:47:57 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: osceola, arkansas - good story Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Yep!!! I was born and raised about 20 minutes north of Wilson. A little town called Osceola. ************************************************************************* have been thru there... know pretty much where it is. here's a good one that you should appreciate... i got transplanted to northern new jersey about 25 years ago, and worked in new york city for 20 years. one day i'm riding the subway to work, and i see this elderly fellow on the seat across from me wearing a farm cap from some cotton farm in osceola. the cap even had a cotton boll as its emblem. what are the odds? --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest