Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:54:02 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #444 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1800 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Translation... (Bert Edens) 2. Re: Translation (Klaas Barends) 3. Soldiers and Warriors (j.mchie@insightbb.com) 4. RE:The rest of the story (martialscience64@earthlink.net) 5. Clarification (Frank Clay) 6. self defense- both genders (Robert Hartley) 7. RE: soft breaking (Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy) 8. Re: Clarification (Ray Terry) 9. Re: self defense- both genders (Ray Terry) 10. Koreans in Japanese Internment Camps in WW II? (Ray Terry) 11. re: soldiers and warriors (Maria Violante) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 15:51:57 -0500 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Bert Edens Subject: [The_Dojang] Translation... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net At 14:14 10/21/04, you wrote: >From: Jye nigma >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [The_Dojang] Translation >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >what is the translation of 'Ah Rae Dae Tae Gyun' and 'We Dae Tae Gyun' >Jye Greetings, sir... Have I mentioned before how I absolutely despise romanization? :) Can you provide a site or anything with the original text? There are several romanization methods and it depends on which one they used... The actual Korean in Hangul would be even better... :) Some shots at it: - "Ah Rae" probably means "lower or bottom" - "We" probably means "upper" (bad romanization) - "Dae" is usually used for Great, Big, etc. But it could also mean an age or era, a table/stand, a group or people, or several other things... - And "Tae Gyun" could be bad romanization of "Tae-Kkyeon" or "Tae-kkyun". Could be... :) Just some guesses, not knowing the original Hangul... Chinese would be even more specific, if applicable... Thanks! <> - Bert Edens, 2nd Dan Springdale, Arkansas --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Klaas Barends Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 05:56:35 +0900 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Translation Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > what is the translation of 'Ah Rae Dae Tae Gyun' and 'We Dae Tae Gyun' Without context (we don't use these terms in our school) it's hard for me to say. And without the Korean writing it is impossible to give an exact literal translation. I would guess that the 'Ah Rae' in the first one stands for 'down' or 'below' So the 'We' in the second one (is it pronounced as the 'we are going to school'?) is above or on. Dae can mean big. Tae Gyun is hard to say, is it like Taekyun (the korean kicking ma?) Hope this helps. -- kind regards, Klaas Barends http://www.hapkido.nl/ http://www.sangmookwan.com/ --__--__-- Message: 3 From: j.mchie@insightbb.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Soldiers and Warriors Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 21:55:54 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net For whatever my opinion is worth, soldiers and warriors are just two labels applied to those for whom combat is a job and a discipline, descriptions that do not apply to me. I believe generally that human beings are good at heart. For those that are not, by birth or experience, they are not warriors and soldiers, but mercenaries (those without restrictions on employers or jobs) and terrorists. Warriors and soldiers in my mind then fall into two types--those that know how to live in peace and those who do not. For those who know how to live in peace, they have families and skills outside their profession. For those that do not, it is not a bad thing because the world is big and there are always injustices to fight, but if they are trapped in peace without outlet they are restless, aimless and potentially dangerous. Warriors and soldiers who do not know how to live with peace should not be involved in the decision to make war or take others to war. I don't know how you screen for that. I have never felt squeamish applying a warrior or soldier tag to participants in non-combative pursuits who fight against tremendous odds for causes they believe in. Ghandi was a warrior for peace. --__--__-- Message: 4 From: To: Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:13:56 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE:The rest of the story Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Pillar, You have a great grasp of TaeKwonDo & Hapkido. CO is beautiful. Really enjoyed the 1st ANN Rocky Mtn Sem last year in aurora. Had a great time training with Master Jung and you and always love to get on the mat with my brother Jeff. Well worth the 1005 mile round trip drive. The ONLY school within 50 miles of here is a KHF school. I have been going to TKD class once a week with my son and we train together during the week ect. trying to make the best of it. Wish there was a WHA school or student closer to here so I could be more hands on. Will you be having another seminar soon this next year. Glad to see you and Mr. James on the list. I believe there is way to much drama in KMA. I just love to train and try to stick to that.... Respect, Greg Hindley Peabody, Kansas --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Frank Clay" To: Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:14:07 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Clarification Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray, I have openly admitted and accepted the egg that was due on my face. I was not culpable in his doings, BUT I was hard headed. Had I listened in the first place to Masters Whalen and Lim, Coach Cole and you, then perhaps I would not have had so much egg. My point in the matter is that many of the people who contacted me... guess with whom they are currently affiliated? The guy is slick and he is good. It was my mistake, and I have no one else to fault for it. Heck, even my wife didn't like the guy. But I had "known" him for five years, and he had what appeared to be reasonable explanations for everything. It wasn't until the KHF released the list, that I found out that what everyone had said was true. So, in having bad judgment and being hard-headed, I am culpable. In what he chose to do, I am not as I was not involved, had no knowledge beforehand, and no ability to stop it. I found out his actions after the fact. I am therefore doing what any reasonable person would then do... my utmost to make sure that people know and to try and prevent it from happening again. Frank --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 18:56:41 -0400 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Robert Hartley Subject: [The_Dojang] self defense- both genders Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I note that in the discussion of self defense, nobody has mentioned firearms. While I agree that situational awareness/alertness, and various methods of avoidance are important, the truth is that a gun in the hands of somebody trained to use it will be more effective in self defense. Think about this situation- a large man threatens a petite woman- do you think that if she says "I have taken a 10 hour self defense class, you better watch out!" and takes some sort of stance, that it will scare him? How about if she pulls a handgun from her purse? Granted, if one does that, then they need to be ready to use it, so just carrying one to brandish about can be highly counterproductive. Or, a man (of whatever age, health, size, and level of training) faces off against multiple attackers, or perhaps one or more with weapons? In neither situation is dialing 911 going to be effective. Granted, if one does carry a firearm, then they need to be ready to use it, and trained in its use, as just carrying one to brandish about can be highly counterproductive. Anyway- just pointing out that we as martial artists often focus on empty hand (or kicking) techniques. While they have their place, and I feel I have had the benefit of training such that I am able to handle most encounters that don't involve a weapon, if I were confronted with multiple attackers, or those with weapons, I fear I would lose. However, the presence of a handgun could save my life, and the lives of others. --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 19:22:59 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: soft breaking Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Duncan wrote: "Colour projection is a wierd one, if you think of a certain colour when you strike it will have a similar effect to a ki ahp. Different colours work for different people, try hitting a heavy bag whilst thinking of differnt colours, if your strikes seem a bit harder with a certain colour then thats your one." Are you kidding me???? So if I think of "Hulk Green" I will be able to break 5 slabs of concrete with a punch but if I think of "Barney Purple" I won't be able to break even 1 board!? Or better yet if I think of Barney Purple my striking technique will slow to a halt because Barney doesn't think I should hit anything at all?? Seems waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out there in left field to me. Who came up with that theory? James Morgan GTKDA --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Clarification To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:21:12 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I have openly admitted and accepted the egg that was due on my face. I was > not culpable in his doings, BUT I was hard headed. Had I listened in the > first place to Masters Whalen and Lim, Coach Cole and you, then perhaps I > would not have had so much egg. Does Al really like to be referred to as Coach Cole instead of Master Cole or just Al? As I recall, "Coach Cole" was the way Hack and Joseph referred to Al in their silly attempt to belittle him. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] self defense- both genders To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:25:32 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Granted, if one does carry a firearm, then they need to be ready to use > it, and trained in its use, as just carrying one to brandish about can be > highly counterproductive. > > Anyway- just pointing out that we as martial artists often focus on empty > hand (or kicking) techniques. While they have their place, and I feel I > have had the benefit of training such that I am able to handle most > encounters that don't involve a weapon, if I were confronted with multiple > attackers, or those with weapons, I fear I would lose. However, the > presence of a handgun could save my life, and the lives of others. And if one is interested in tactical firearms training see one list of schools at http://martialartsresource.com/firearms.htm Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:28:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Koreans in Japanese Internment Camps in WW II? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Fowarding. An interesting thread... The United Korean Committee sent representatives to Washington, D.C. and convinced U.S. officials that Koreans should not be interned with Japanese Americans. The State and Treasury Departments issued a special order stating that Koreans should not be treated as Japanese subjects and enemy aliens but instead should be accorded the same treatment as citizens of allied nations. So Koreans were not interned. The United Korean Committee issued ID badges with the Korean flag and urged all Koreans to carry these badges as proof that they were not Japanese. Many Koreans also wore buttons saying "I am Korean." This was actually quite common: Many Asian Americans wore buttons or put up signs in their store windows or living room windows saying things like "I am Chinese" or "I am Korean." There are many reports of Koreans and Chinese in the U.S. being harassed and attacked by white Americans who mistook them for Japanese. Many Koreans joined the war effort. They went to work for the U.S. as Japanese language interpreters, teachers and translators. Some joined the army and received training as agents to be sent into Korea and other Japanese-occupied areas. I don't know, though, whether anyone actually went and what happened on these missions. I also do not know if any Korean Americans were detained as Japanese subjects by the United States before the special order was issued by the U.S. government. I don't think so, but I haven't done the research to confirm that. Best, Ji-Yeon At 07:42 AM 2004.10.21, you wrote: >I assume that this means "Internment camps for Japanese". If so, then I am >sure that many Koreans were detained - Koreans were, after all, viewed >internationally as Japanese citizens _ nothing to do with taking Japanese >names, but a consequence of the annexation of Korea in 1910 and its >subsequent status as a Japanese colony. > >I do not have the details to hand, but in the British case, Koreans were >officially enemy aliens until the 1952 Japanese Peace Treaty. This was >true even after the establishment of the ROK, which Britain recognized. >However, while this remained the legal position after 1948, as far as I >know in fact nobody tried to treat Koreans as Japanese citizens after >1948. Before that, of course, a number of Koreans were tried as minor war >criminals by British (and other) courts. The relevant papers on much of >this can be found in the FO371 and WO series of papers at the National >Archives in Kew. > >Jim Hoare > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Bert Edens" >Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2004 6:34 PM > > >>Greetings, all... >>Does anyone know of any documented occurrences of Koreans being >>incarcerated in one of the many Japanese internment camps during World >>War II? It seems plausible considering the hysteria and general lack of >>knowledge regarding the difference between Asians. Considering also that >>Koreans were also subject to using Japanese names during the occupation, >>it could be even more possible, although I would assume Koreans here >>would have not used Japanese names. >>Thank you in advance for your time... Yuh, Ji-Yeon Assistant Professor of History Associate Director of Asian American Studies Northwestern University Harris 202 1881 Sheridan Road Evanston, IL 60208 USA [The Alliance of Scholars Concerned about Korea--- ] --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Maria Violante" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 19:43:16 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] re: soldiers and warriors Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Soldiers and Warriors Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In response to what you said on warriors being only connected with war: I think that perhaps our culture is one of the only that is taught so. My mother is from korea, and so I have taken an active interest in many eastern philosophies and literature; and I never see a warrior defined as merely "one who is connected with war" (although maybe I am not reading the right things). Instead, I often see warrior defined as a way of life that is to be honored in times of peace or war. A warrior fights only when necessary, and always does what he or she knows is truly right. They try to live in harmony with their fellow man/woman, working beyond fear and with utmost compassion. This lifestyle applies to those of any profession or any path - a mother may be a warrior, as well as a farmer or a lawyer, etc. In this way, many of our soldiers are warriors; however, a soldier is not necessarily a warrior by definition. The (lay) definition of soldier is merely one who fights according to his or her orders - but a soldier that tries to live justly and compassionately, without lies or denial, working through his/her fear, may also be a warrior at the same time. Of course, this is merely my understanding of some of the philosophies I have had the time and luck to experience. The reason I mention it is I think it may be closer to the original intent of the comment. (Related reading : Shambala) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------- Message replied to : My apologies, guys, for coming in during the middle of your uniform discussion (uniforms don't matter much to me -- see below), but I thought I would jump in on the "warrior" aspect. George wrote: "There is a great difference between a soldier and a warrior. I was taught that a soldier and a warrior might have similar skills, but a soldier is subject to orders from superiors to govern his actions, while a warrior is held to a far higher degree of accountability in having to do a job, but is also shouldered with the responsibilities to do what is morally right no matter what the cost." I have the opposite feeling, and I'm wondering why. George, where did you learn your definition of warrior? A warrior is someone who is concerned with war, isn't it?. And for me, that's not a good thing. To me a warrior is someone who thinks too much about war and not enough about peace. A soldier is a person who does his job, and then comes back home to enjoy the fruits of his labors. I don't want to glorify war, so I don't glorify warriors. But I respect soldiers. As for the uniforms, one of my students picked up a great t-shirt at K-mart for me to wear in class. It shows a squirrel holding a stick and the blurb reads "Protect your nuts!" It may become our standard hapkido tshirt. :) Take care guys, Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com --Maria Violante. Gradually phasing my home email, leyana@charter.net, into this email, violante@mail.com. So please start using this one if you can. I also have a campus email during the year at maria.t.violante@wmich.edu. -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest