Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 03:01:50 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #448 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1800 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Breaking and Conditioning (Jye nigma) 2. baseball bat defense (michael tomlinson) 3. Re: Soft breaking (Duncan Shewan) 4. defense against an armed assailant (Rick Clark) 5. RE: soft breaking (Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy) 6. RE: Knife Defense (Kip McCormick) 7. RE: From another group...Korean language (Kip McCormick) 8. Re: RE: soft breaking (Duncan Shewan) 9. Re: defense against an armed assailant (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 08:41:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Breaking and Conditioning To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I condition my hand and have been doing so for years now, haven't had any problems with dexterity either. You know the work that you do also can condition your hand. Some of the most dense / hard hands I've ever come in contact with are construction works, or heavy machinery operators. They could probably knock a house down with a slap...lol. I think along with conditioning, much of it is actual exercise of the area (if applicable). So for my iron palm training, I always make sure I do proper exercises, and stretching and massage of the muscles in the hand along with a strict heat treatment. Jye "Dunn, Danny J GARRISON" wrote: Chris, I have never been a big fan of breaking, and I have been in martial arts a little over 30. Now there are some valid reasons to break, say testing and maybe some demos to keep the school going. But I think that most breaking is done in just showing off. I did a little conditioning when I first started, but I am convinced that knuckle pushups are all that anyone need do to provide reasonable conditioning for light to moderate breaking. For heavier breaks, I've always prefered knife hand or palm heel. I also think speed breaks show more skill. I would not recommend breaking with spearhand for anyone, as Master Rudy shared recently, it always has the potential for injury. I don't have problems with arthuritis or loss of motility or dexterity in my hands. Danny Dunn <<<<<<>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1700 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 18:57:21 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] baseball bat defense Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net It gets worse.. on the question of how hard were they going// well Jeff says they were using a wiffle ball bat!! Now this makes it totally unrealistic and ridiculous. He said they were swinging the wiffle ball bat pretty fast but come on... double sudo block on a baseball bat???? I teach the defense much like Jye described,, enter in to the circular void much like sword defense drills OR get the flock out of Dodge!!! Michael Tomlinson _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Duncan Shewan" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Soft breaking Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 20:24:01 +0100 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jye nigma" To: Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 3:51 PM Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Soft breaking > Well there is power, but internal, not the external like what you see at karate board breaks. I have been taught to truly condition the hand thoroughly to prevent damage, but to asorb impact. There was a skill I was taught called dead hand. It's just that. dead weight. The actual hand was as if lifeless totally relaxed and the power was transmitted strictly from the hips and the hand comes and strikes the opponent. The goal of this technique was not to hit hard (although it does for how it's done) but for internal damage. The simplified version would be like how you throw a freesbie (I spell that right?) > > Twist at the waist when then you whip out your arm just like you're launching a freesbie, but striking the opponent with the area some call the chicken wrist...lol. there is and will always be external force involve (unless you believe in "empty force") but the focus should be on intense concentration and chi flow. > > Jye That's totally it, use your arm like your throwing something. We practice slaps like this, slap down on a grabbing arm or a across your opponents jaw, you can use it to cause some damage when you parry. Good for breaking. I was totally put off hand conditioning when one of the older masters I met explained how he can no longer tie his shoe laces or write with his right hand.But he could punch walls etc with full force and not feel any pain, don't know if its worth it. I stopped conditioning after this. > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today! > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 1800 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Rick Clark" To: Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 14:40:20 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] defense against an armed assailant Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Just my two cents worth, There has been a bit of a discussion on techniques to be used against an armed assailant - knife, baseball bat etc. It seems to me that in 'the old days' you would have defended against a weapon with a weapon. The idea that you defend yourself against an armed opponent with empty hands is not very realistic. Sure they could have not had a sword at hand, or they may have been disarmed, but I suspect a warrior back then would have had a weapon of some sort within reach 99% of the time. In my opinion hand to hand combat is simply that - hand to hand. To really expect that empty hand was used against a weapon on a regular (or preferred) basis is, I believe, a myth. First choice in dealing with an armed assailant is to use a superior weapon with superior reach i.e. a bow and arrow against a swordsman, a sword against a knife, knife against knife, a knife against empty hand, and worst case empty hand against a weapon. Empty hand against a weapon, to me seems to be a last ditch effort when you have nothing else to defend yourself. OK we are not going to be walking around with a sword, Arnis sticks, butterfly knives, etc. BUT in the US (check your local and state laws) you can get a permit to carry concealed weapons. So what is unrealistic about us marching down and applying for a permit to carry, purchasing a 9mm and getting the proper training? OK some of you don't live in the US and don't have the same gun laws we have here, and even if you do live in the US not all states have the same gun laws. But where I live it's simply a matter of filling out the forms, paying a fee, a background check to make sure I am not a criminal and I can (have the permit in my wallet) carry a concealed firearm in my state and there are reciprocal agreements in other states. I live in Indiana and can carry a concealed firearm in Alaska and a number of other states based on my license. I can tell you that if given the choice to pull my 9mm on an attacker (armed or unarmed) that will be my first choice, I'll use my pocket knife second, and if there is nothing at had to use as a weapon I'll use empty hand techniques. And yes there was a Japanese art of Just associated with the use of firearms, Jujutsu (techniques of gunnery). OK - it's not a Korean art you say? But do like so many other Korean 'masters' have done and take the art from the Japanese change it a bit and rename it claiming it to be an ancient Korean arts that has just been discovered or has remained a closely guarded secret until someone has just been persuaded to teach for the first time in public. (flame retardant on) Rick Clark www.ao-denkou-kai.org --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 16:51:30 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: soft breaking Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Duncan said: "look all im doing here is trying to answer some questions and share some info about the more esoteric side of the arts I have come into contact with. Theres no need to take the p**s. " Jeez man, guess you don't know when someone is pulling your leg, huh? For what it's worth, I'm open to this color projection this if it works. I'm open to ANYTHING, if it works. When Ray brought up the thing about lifting weights while looking at different colors, that rang a bell with me. I have heard that. James Morgan GTKDA --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Kip McCormick" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Knife Defense Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 14:43:24 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Great technique, JC. For some even more realistic training, go to your local army surplus store, by some old bayonets, file them down (dull them) then take JC's technique of red chalk. Something about a "real" knife/metal knife tends to make butts pucker. Plastic and wooden knives are great but metal makes it a little more realistic. Food for thought. Also, I've seen some ICHF bubbas with shorter training knives that were pretty good. I know that Ray Terry has some great knife ideas, having gone to one of his sessions at Master West's throwdown in Jackson. Kip Warrior Hapkido West Point, NY USKMAF >From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: >Subject: [The_Dojang] Knife Defense >Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 15:00:13 -0500 > >For some realistic knife training. Try this. I made a wooden practice >knife. >The blade is 8" long and has a 1/16 gap cut along the blade edge. I fill >it >with red chalk and we practice not with predetermined lunges, thrust, and >swings. We just attack and realistically try to cause a chalk mark to >appear >on the uniform of our partner simulating a cut. You will be surprised at >how >inefficient you really are. We practice one cut we are bleeding, two cuts >we >are in trouble and the third cut we are likely to bleed out unless one of >the >cuts is to an area that would be fatal with one cut. My students and myself >have learned a great deal about realistic knife attack from this drill. >Try >It! > >JC >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 1800 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Kip McCormick" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] From another group...Korean language Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 14:45:44 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Help me out, here, fellow Korean speakers, but "sulsa" means diarrhea (I'd have to see it in Korean to recognize it), right? Kip Warrior Hapkido West Point, NY USKMAF >From: Jye nigma >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [The_Dojang] From another group...Korean language >Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 12:41:08 -0700 (PDT) > >I found this on another forum where they were discussing Korean langauge, >any thoughts? > >Jye > >"Sulsa is a Sino-Korean word, meaning it was written in pictographic >symbols, and its meaning is therefore eminently clear whenever you look at >it. In fact, your example is totally irrelevant. Gay acquired a new meaning >through its initial use as sort of code word, and if you ask almost any >native English speaker they will be able to identify all of its meanings. >Sulsa didn't mean "Knight of the Night" a thousand years ago, and it >doesn't today. > >And no, it DOES NOT depend on which romanization you use. This demonstrates >loudly and clearly that you can't read Hangeul, and obviously should not be >arguing Korean linguistic points with someone who does." > > >--------------------------------- >Do you Yahoo!? >vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today! >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 1800 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Duncan Shewan" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] RE: soft breaking Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 01:53:24 +0100 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy" To: "Dojang Digest" Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 9:51 PM Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: soft breaking > Duncan said: > "look all im doing here is trying to answer some questions and share some > info about the more esoteric side of the arts I have come into contact with. > Theres no need to take the p**s. " > > Jeez man, guess you don't know when someone is pulling your leg, huh? For > what it's worth, I'm open to this color projection this if it works. > Sorry man, its hard to tell with text and people usually do take the p**s when I talk about this stuff. Ive had some bad experiences on other forums so I tend to get a bit defensive. No hard feelings eh? Duncan _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 1800 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] defense against an armed assailant To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 18:08:11 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > And yes there was a Japanese art of Just associated with the use of > firearms, Jujutsu (techniques of gunnery). Rick, I think that is a typo. The Japanese martial art of gunnery/firearms is Hojutsu. Yes? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest