Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 12:19:02 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #452 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1800 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Gladewater SBD self defense (Scott) 2. Romanization of Korean... (Bert Edens) 3. A question (C. Bonner) 4. Re: Warriors and Soldiers (Bruce Sims) 5. Re: Warriors and Soldiers (Bruce Sims) 6. In a Perfect World (michael tomlinson) 7. Re: Board Breaking (Ken) 8. another opinion! (Ken) 9. Re: (no subject) (Scott) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 12:04:44 -0400 From: Scott To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Gladewater SBD self defense Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Exiting lurker mode again.(not trying to troll or flame anyone here) Mr. Peters, I am responding to your post but I am in no way attacking you. I am just using your very good and legitimate questions for my spring board on to the podium. I challenge everyone to change what you are teaching as WSD. Not the Physical skills,(while some physical skills are better to teach then others that is not the point of this post) but what you are actually trying to teach them. Remember your audience. These women are not their to become insane fighting machines. Most don't want to spend hours and hours a week training. Most will never step foot in your Dojang again. What they want is to not be afraid. As the pendulum swings "Overconfidence" is a likely effect. GREAT! These are not the type of student who will then go out looking for trouble to get into. They are looking for the confidence to get out of black hole of fear that they are in. There is a common misconception that WSD is about teaching physical fighting skills. IT'S NOT! The most important thing to be taught in WSD is Self Confidence. Physical fighting skills are in fact the catalyst for them to learn the things that will really make them safer, knowledge and self confidence. The fact is that they don't have to be great MA's to win in a SD situation. But if they are confident, they can not only reduce their chances of being attacked by up to 90% in some situations, but they live a happier and more free life. This is the real goal for WSD. I can teach much more useful WSD skills with out ever getting on the mat. If women have knowledge of the real issues of WSD then they will be able to see trouble coming, find more ways to avoid or disable it, and know that they always have a chance. But most new WSD students need the physical fighting skills to bolster their confidence. Build them up to feel like they are not helpless. Then when they use behavioral and verbal skills they will exude the confidence that is needed to make them work. The facts are the 80% of women that fight back against a rapist prevent the rape from being committed. Most are not MA's, Most have no training in WSD, this shows that you don't have to be a "Trained fighter" to survive. What you need is the confidence to fight back. "Attitude is Everything!" So don't worry that they are getting "overconfident", worry that you are giving them the right non-physical skills that will exploit their overconfidence, and make it work for them. As for common sense, well you can't teach "Common Sense" in a non condescending way. By calling it "common sense" you have made a judgment about the person that you are teaching it to. You have predetermined that if you don't know it you are an idiot. This is not the case. everyone has "common sense" about different issues. I taught to a Mary Kay meeting a few weeks ago. I pointed out what was common sense to them about makeup I had no clue about. Did that make me stupid? No. (that didn't other things maybe but not that). I just meant that I hadn't learned about makeup. I always tell my students: Common sense is not common. It is based on knowledge. When you were three and your mom told you not to touch the stove because it was hot, you didn't know that it was "common sense" not to touch hot things. The second you touched the hot stove you understood it's not good to touch hot things. And the next time it was "common sense" not to touch it. So you don't teach "common sense stuff" you give people information and let them decide how they want to use it. That means that may or may not decide to use it the way you think is best. But the choice is theirs. But when teaching WSD you can't make judgments about others personal behavior. WSD Quote "A woman has the absolute right to walk bare naked into a biker bar, and no one has the right to touch her." That's the Ideal. Reality is that if she does so she should have a plan to deal with those people that don't beleave in her rights. I add my own quote referencing one of my biggest fears. "If I go swimming with sharks and I have a cut, I am more likely to get bit then if I don't have a cut." This still doesn't mean that if I go swimming with a cut that I want to get bit by a shark. Nor does it mean that I am asking to get bit. Maybe my boat sank and I don't have a choice. Maybe I didn't know I was cut. Maybe I knew I was cut but I was hot and wanted to swim and didn't know there were sharks around. Anyways it doesn't matter! I have the right to swim if I want. But knowing how sharks act, I had better think about how I am going to deal with them. I can cover my cut, I can carry a boom stick, I can swim with others that are bleeding more then I am. Sometimes the smartest thing to do is to stay on the shore. But if I do then I will never be able to enjoy the water. It's not fair for the sharks to take that way from me. So I swim. And what are the chances that I can fight a shark the way sharks fight? Not good. So I need to learn other ways to deal with them instead. That is what the physical and knowledge aspects of proper WSD teaches. Not how to fight like a man. But how to win preferably without having to fight. Self confidence is there to encourage us to try, and never give up. So my challenge to people is to change the way that you think about WSD. It is a mini MA. But it is not Centered around the physical skills. MA = Mind, Body, Spirit. WSD = Knowledge, Practice, Confidence. Each is reliant upon the strength of the other two. Developing one strengthens the other two. All are necessary. Where many MA's lean on the Body and Spirit, WSD needs to weight heavier on Knowledge and confidence. Scott, (suddenly realizes he is on a soap box again, begs pardon for disturbing anyone, steps down, and slips back into the muck and mire of lurker mode, turns on discovery channels shark week.) George Peters wrote: > Good Sir, > I also teach a class for women in conjunction with other MA > volunteers. It is my biggest fear that someone with only a little > knowledge become overconfident in their abilities. It seems to be VERY > difficult to get the "public" to understand that a few self defense > lessons does not make an experienced martial artist. While the classes > are offered so that no one need walk in fear, how does one include the > "common sense" issues without sounding condesending? This seems to be > a difficult issue for all instructors invovled. > Respectfully, > George --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 12:21:42 -0500 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Bert Edens Subject: [The_Dojang] Romanization of Korean... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net At 09:54 10/25/04, you wrote: >From: Jye nigma >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [The_Dojang] Found this > >http://www.glossika.com/en/dict/Korpin.pdf Greetings, sir! Now you know why people who know Hangul run screaming when someone asks what a romanized word means (unless it's a very common one)... There are so many possibilities, and it's very likely the person who is asking doesn't know which romanization system they requested phrase is in... If they did, they would likely already know Hangul and be able to look it up... As a side note to the recent romanization "standards" changes, it doesn't seem to have applied to common names and places... As mentioned already, "Pusan" should be "Busan", but most maps show it as "Pusan". So it will likely stay that way... Under the new system, anyone named "Kim" should be called "Gim". Naturally, that's not gonna happen either :) <> - Bert Edens, 2nd Dan Springdale, Arkansas --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "C. Bonner" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:03:14 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] A question Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net          A question,  How many of you still do traditional step techniques ( 1 steps, 2 steps, etc ) with straight punch etc.? how many have modified them, and in what way? And how many have dropped them altogether.   Clint Bonner ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Rock, jazz, country, soul & more. Find the music you love on MSN Music! --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 11:05:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Warriors and Soldiers Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Dakin: "......Seems I'm in the minority in terms of not liking the term "warrior," but I'm glad to see that no matter what word everyone is using, we're all agreed that our role models should be leaders in peace as well as in times of war....." I can't say that I "like" or "dislike" the term warrior itself. What I am finding is that I am using it less and less as time goes on. My sense is that the term has come to be used to romanticize a particular view of legitimized violence. I could probably live with this except that then when people use the same term to charazcterize a persons' efforts to promote a peace other folks seem to see this as a misapplication of the term. In this way though, I view someone like (Gen) George C Marshall who produced the Marshall Plan and the leadership that produced the Berlin Airlift as true warriors even though their goal was to keep people alive rather than destroy things. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 11:20:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Warriors and Soldiers Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Folks: This may seem like an odd post, but I thought I would extend one persons' recognition to the warrior spirit to found in Iraq these days. What I am singling out is the uncommon restraint that is being exhibited by the military in the face of some pretty ugly opposition. Seems to me that anybody with eyes to see can quickly figure out that the fighting has nothing to do with Saddam Hussein and WMD. Rather Iraq is becoming a venue for every malcontent who has a chip on their shoulder to take a shot at an American. In this way its not so very different from street gangs here in the US who require a new inductee to take-out a cop or a fireman to prove their mettle. Its not about a lot of the stuff the governement would like us to believe. Rather, there is an entire class of have-nots who have become fed-up with their status and rather than admit their leadership has failed them, they are externalizing their hate against people they don't have to feel guilty hating. Now I know a lot of folks here in the States could easily make an argument for dropping a bunker-buster on the sorry slum in Faluja and calling it even. And you will also notice that everytime we kill one of the leadership its always along with a group of family members they keep around them as human shields and the propaganda value if anything happens to them. To the credit of our military they simply keep doing their job banging away at these "dead-enders" and not looking for any quick fixes. There aren't any. Anyhow, I know what its like to be involved in a grinding thankless job and thought I would say something as a way of recognizing their sacrifice. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 18:48:27 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] In a Perfect World Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Guys when it comes to self defense against a weapon of any kind yes it would be best to also have a weapon of equal or actually better in value.. a firearm with plenty of training would be best...BUT this is not a perfect world and THAT is what we train for. I have my ccp and carry quite often but because of my job as a teacher I am forbidden to carry a weapon with me at work or to work... I am sure there are quite a few people in my same predicament with their proffessions... you will not always have access to a weapon when you need it and that is why I choose to train unarmed against weapons.... do I want to ever have to do it... no... but maybe that won't be my decision one day... Michael Tomlinson _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Ken" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Board Breaking Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:02:18 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Good point and I agree breaking should be a measure of your own progress of your technique.jmo, Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2004 8:32 PM Subject: [The_Dojang] Board Breaking > Respectfully' > > Why break at all? I have practiced breaking for many years, and understand > that it is a means of measuring > focus, correct foot/hand positions, power etc. So if that is the reason why > do people add spacers? I will tell you. Its because they want to show off at a > demo or claim they broke #!#&!# bricks/boards. Frankly its an embarrassment. > Recently I was attending a regional tournament. I was asked to do a demo as > were several others. During my demo I broke 5- 2"X8"x16" blocks with no > spacers with a open Soo Do. I also taped the hands of two of my senior > students and with nine holders broke 7 12"x12"x3/4" #3 pine boards with a > sidekick, and again no spacers. This may seem like a lot to some but it is a > result of many years of hard training. > > I was met at the door by a man that addressed me (I had never seen him before) > He began to tell me he had broken more and he told me if I added spacers I > could too. My response was respectful but I was not trying to exaggerate my > ability only to demonstrate it. > > My point is that to demonstrate power and focus I have no problem with > breaking, it can be a good tool. To show more than you are by rigging the demo > with spacers or some other means is not showing one of the martial artists > best traits HONESTY > > JC > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 1800 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Ken" To: Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:14:42 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] another opinion! Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Just wanted to add this, we all need to remember that the martial arts and tae kwon do is a means of personal growth not a measure of how good you can break or spar.I study kuk ki ryu which means in translation conquor yourself style. The thing is that the martial art is a way of life not just self- defense or tech.It's learning to over come. It's many disciplines are self-confidence, respect, honesty among all the others.It's about being the best you can be.So in short with anything else in life use what works best for you and move on. Ken --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 16:22:35 -0400 From: Scott To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] (no subject) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Okay I am out of lurker mode will stay out for a while it seems :-) Moe wrote: >Dear Sir, > >I want to thank you for your great insights on this "self-defense" email that >has been circulating, as a copy was recently forwarded to me. As the mother >of two teen daughters I find myself harping daily at them on the necessity of >keeping their eyes open and listening to their instincts. > > Thank you for your kind words Cindy. It is good to hear that you are teaching your daughters to be aware. It is especially hard but most important in their teen years. Generally teens to college age is when they are meeting the most new people. They are becoming more and more independent. This means that it is more likely they will have a predator join into their circle of friends. Unfortunately there are to many new emotions all yelling for their attention, so their instincts are easily lost in the din. And no matter what they think, most don't have the life experience to recognize threats when they emerge. Your constant "nagging" may go over like opera at the prom, but it will help them to hear the important instincts over the din of popular culture. >Your words about the likelyhood of an attack coming from a person who takes >advantage of drunkenness or uses drugs to sedate a woman bear repeating--I >worked for a time with our area's Sexual Assult Services and heard many >stories of women "blacking out" after just a few drinks and waking a day or >two later knowing that they have been assulted but unable to remember a single >detail. Many times these crimes go unreported because the victim cannot >relate any details and has a strong fear of finding out what really >happened--many of these people feel that it is better not to know, and sadly >the attacker carries on with impunity. > > Along that line there was a news story reported by Reuters last year that WSD instructors should be on the look out for. There is an old drug making a come back in a new way. Most popular "date rape drugs" are readily accessible and they are effective in knocking the person out but they have the flaw that the memories are there just suppressed, and the victim can usually recall what was done to them under hypnosis. But this other drug (which I won't name on an open list server) that is coming back into use in and is readily available in south America and Mexico, totally prohibits the forming of memories and instead of knocking out it's victims makes them passive slaves to the commands of the predator. So far access to and use of the drug has not yet made it back to the U.S. But knowing that it is out there is another bit of knowledge that can aid you in planning your personal safety. Second story on this note. Just before the university came back in session a few summers ago, the local news reported several weeks of break in's at local vet's stealing drugs. No one understood why I was so alarmed about it. Until I pointed out that they were stealing Ketimine (sp?) "Special K" on the street. That year saw a marked increase in date rape drug assaults. They were caught selling the stuff on campus. For me the break in's were a clear sign of the tragedy to come, for most it was just a meaningless blurb on the news. This is how knowledge of the issues can improve your defensive options. >One other thing that Master Dewitt mentioned in last recently that also needs >to be noted--the danger a woman puts herself into when she walks around with a >cell phone glued to her ear. If she is talking she is not fully aware of her >immediate surroundings. ... Her suspected attacker awaits trial. > > We had a similar incident happen near us. May people think that they are safe when they are talking on their cell phones. Many others think that they are an immediate target. The truth is it all depends on what you are doing. Cell phones are a distraction, wither when you are driving or walking. If you are too distracted to watch what is going on around you then they are a hindrance. If you are talking and watching and aware then they can be of benefit. Personally I think they are best if you get a construction rated one that can be hit with an hammer and still work. that way you can use it to bash the sucker in the nose and still dial 911 with it. (Funny the criteria we look for in our consumer goods. Anyone else test to see how high you can kick when trying on new jeans in the fitting room?) >On a lighter note, my aunt was leaving a downtown business one might a few >winters ago, and as was her habit looked in her back seat before opeing the >car door. She could see someone laying in the back seat so she ran to the >nearest building, a bar, and asked for help. Several men, loaded for bear and >powered by liquid courage, stormed her car with the intent of overhauling the >offender. They jerked her back door open and proceeded to beat the snot out >of the snowmobile suit her husband had laid across the back seat. True >story. > Or she was being stalked by frosty the snowman, but he melted waiting for her to come back the car. :-) Seriously the person in the back seat thing does happen, as Neil pointed out in an earlier post. But it is not the norm. Getting into the back seat means alot more effort, and more risk(if found they can't escape as easily). Most casual criminals aren't going to make the effort. Another one is the idea of someone under your car. Possible? Yes. Likely? No. Should you look? Yes. What if there is someone there waiting to reach out and cut your achelles tendon so you can't run away?(read urban legend) Then jump up and down on your bumper and smash him flat! I don't know about you but there are very few modern autos that I can hide "under", that don't have the equation 4X4 on them. The fact is it's much easier, quicker and safer for them to time their approach and meet you at the car. It gives them time to back out right up to the very last second if something goes wrong. And if you see them coming and are ready for them then something has gone wrong. Most know it's better to abort then risk confronting an aware, confidant, possibly armed and dangerous "victim". Again just my $16.50 worth. I'm just to long winded to get it out in $.02. :-) Scott --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest