Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:06:05 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #458 - 17 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1800 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Samurang (michael tomlinson) 2. One-Step Sparring (FirstPe315@aol.com) 3. Re: Samurang (Ray Terry) 4. Ryu PA (Frank Clay) 5. Small classes (Charles Richards) 6. Thoughts on societal violence (Eric Walker) 7. Not for Profit Teaching - At Risk Kids (Frank Clay) 8. Ryu... (Bert Edens) 9. one steps -- Ray (Boit Clinton Capt AF/DPMP) 10. Re: Not for Profit Teaching - At Risk Kids (Ray Terry) 11. Re: Gladewater SBD ... one step (Ray Terry) 12. Re: Samurang (Jye nigma) 13. RE: 1-steps, etc. (C. Bonner) 14. Step Sparring (Dunn, Danny J GARRISON) 15. Fighter in the wind (Klaas Barends) 16. Bag Work (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 17. Ryu Pa (Gladewater SooBahkDo) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 16:36:11 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Samurang Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce writes: And what about those folks who talk about the term "samurai" stemming from "samurang"? Those folks would be Doju Nim Ji Han Jae... for some reason I tend to listen to him and his take on ancient Korean philosopy, I don't know why, surely he couldn't actually know something about the subject...huh...I guess next time we should listen to who instead?? Michael Tomlinson _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:51:57 -0400 From: FirstPe315@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] One-Step Sparring Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To Mark D. & Mike T. Although the drills you are describing are important and all Hapkido schools (to say nothing about others) should have them as part of their repetoire. However, if you believe that the traditional One-Step Sparring is obsolete I am afraid that I would have to say that that is a narrow vision. I would think people of your experiences would understand that there is a lot more going on in this exchange than might appear to the more secular of our viewers. Beginning students, in my opinion, are not ready for the scenarios that you are describing. The subtleties inherent in One-Step and Three-Step such as distance, movement, balance, angular attack and defense etc. cannot be taught that quickly to beginners when they have no physical foundation with which to build on. Even the attacker in this situation is learning quite a bit such as a continued practice and refinement of proper basics, explosive movement, distance training, focus, patience and more. I think you need to be slightly more introspective and less thrilled about too much "realistic" training off the bat. Just my .02c J --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Samurang To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:53:00 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Those folks would be Doju Nim Ji Han Jae... And I believe that today is his B-Day.?.?. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Frank Clay" To: Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:59:16 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Ryu PA Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce, <<[...] You want to invoke the name of some wellknown individual? Fine. Well known individuals make mistakes, too. But please don't give me this crap about being a linguist. That sounds like the sort of line FF would use. Bruce>> I had commented that the term was use dby Hwang Kee when you popped in saying that an indiscriminate use in Korean martial art bothers you. If you don't like such an inference, then be clearer. Reading what you said after what I stated, seems like you are trying to correct the late Grandmaster who WAS a native speaker. We are not talking about something that I used, or something that Mr. Hackworth used... we are talking about Hwang Kee, in a book written in what '78 and originally written in Korean before that (anyone know if those dates are right? I haven't unpacked my book yet)? I know you don't like Hackworth... neither do I. The comments comparing me to him need to go to private email. Trying to disparage me is getting old, and frankly, no one really cares to hear it. f. --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:00:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Charles Richards To: Dojang Digest Subject: [The_Dojang] Small classes Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear List, A while back there was a thread on block classes versus skill/age appropriate classes. We now have skill appropriate for 11- and age appropriate block class for ages 12+. Anyway with 4 days per week of 3 classes and enrollment down to 30ish we have some small classes from time to time. Last night I had one Yellow Belt in adult class. I explained to her that I never end early or cancell when that happens, but go with the universe's plan... Anyway we spent a full hour on BASICS. Spent a good 20 minutes on front stance, back stance, horse stance and about 4 basic hand motions and another 20 minutes on front fall, back fall, side fall and foward roll. We did all of her required forms (all 3 of them) 3 or more times. Stopping as needed for correction. In showing her a handful of fine points and fixing the same thing a couple times I got to really polish up on my basics and really put my rebuilt ankle through the paces doing some good ole TSDMDK DEEP front stances and putting a lot of trunk rotation in my basics. It sure did feel good to drop all the titles, regalia and positional power and do the beginner cirriculum for a good sweaty hour. Hope everyone else is having as much fun training :-) Yours in jung do, Charles Richards www.mojakwan.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Eric Walker" To: Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:08:25 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Thoughts on societal violence Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Kiral asked, "also, i was only asking the question of why...what is the reason behind the violent nature of american society?" I one the other hand would ask you why do you study martial arts? It is violent by nature. It arose from the very need to protect oneself from invaders, attackers or whomever would try to harm or kill. We hold our own cultures to be something that must be preserved. I think the better question would be, "What is the reason behind the violent nature of man?" There have been very few truly peaceful people in the world. Even Christ became violent at least once when he wrecked the money-changers booths in the Temple. Christ was a man, and violence is in all of us. I think "violence" levels in relatively peaceful societies such as the US or Canada would be roughly equal. Of course as other current threads are demonstrating, statistical analysis is rather fluid and flexible. I would also ask you this question, Mr. Kiral. Which societies have actively used violence to promote peace and justice in the world? Recent history has shown Americans, as well as Canadians, Australians and others have acted violently to theses ends. The nature of violence in German society around 1930 gave rise to a very brutal regime the National Socialists. Soviet Socialist societies have caused the death of probably 100,000,000 innocents over the course of the 20th century. What is it about American culture that seems especially violent to you? Is it more violent than Canadian culture? More violent than the culture of any other nation that has existed or does exist at this time? I study hapkido for the first reason of understanding the violence that exists in me. It has the added benefit of tempering my "violent" nature by raising my capability to do a violent act if it becomes necessary. Is this good or bad? Does it make me more violent? You say you are a proficient shooter. This raises you level of ability to do violence. Good or bad? Modern Korean martial arts rose up during and from the ashes of Japanese occupation, do you think that there is a good/bad judgment call to made in light of this? Sorry to stray from the KMA topic of the list, I'll take this off-list if you want me to Mr. Terry. Eric --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.782 / Virus Database: 528 - Release Date: 10/22/2004 --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Frank Clay" To: Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:09:17 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Not for Profit Teaching - At Risk Kids Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I am looking into doing some volunteer teaching. I have gained my instructors support but I have a question. Has anyone set up such a program? Any advice as to how to approach various organizations for use of facilities? This program is going to be aimed at youth through age 17. Since my clientele will not have the ability to pay, anyone know what organizations would be willing to donate space? After that, how do I get the word out? The idea is to give kids a positive alternative to the things they normally see in their daily culture such as drugs, alcohol and gangs. Thanks in advance. Frank --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:30:59 -0500 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Bert Edens Subject: [The_Dojang] Ryu... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Greetings, all... Weighing in here from the Korean language angle, not from the "I know where such-and-such came up with the idea to use Ryu in his system name"... Did some checking on Ryu as a Korean word (·ù if you can read Hangul on your PC)... My source is http://engdic.empas.com/show.tsp/?q=165597&f=B&v=45 which is my favorite online Korean dictionary... The meaning is described as Style / Type / Mode / System, etc. As you would expect... It also shows the origin is from the Chinese "liu", as Mr. Burton hypothesized... If you can view Chinese, you can find more about "liu" at http://zhongwen.com/d/172/x121.htm ... There's also English there too :) Did GM Kim intentionally use a word associated with the Japanese when he founded Kuk Ki Ryu? I think only he knows the answer to that... But did he use a word that was already in use in the Korean language? Sure seems likely... In all fairness, "ryu" may have even become common in the Korean language during the Japanese occupation... I suppose a more well-versed linguist would need to answer if it was in common use before that time... Hope this helps somewhat... <> - Bert Edens, 2nd Dan Springdale, Arkansas >Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 19:39:53 -0700 (PDT) >From: Neil Burton >Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Ryu Pa > >Um, I think i better put my flame retardent jacket >on... > >Having done my degree in Japanese language and studies >I have certain sympathies for your position - however, >it is very easy to forget the linguistic similarities >between Korean and Japanese, in grammar and in terms >of vocabulary. > >Korean is generally considered to be an Altaic >language, but large amounts of the vocabulary are >borrowed from Chinese. This is important to note, as >Japanese also borrows extensively from Chinese - as >evidenced by the On Yomi reading of a Kanji. > >On Yomi and Kun Yomi refer to teh Chinese and Japanese >pronunciations of a Kanji. For ryu we have the >following: > >Kanji: —¬ >On Yomi: Ryu - noun suffix "style of", "school (of >thought)" >Kun Yomi: Naga - noun "Sink" (Nagashi), and the verb >"to wash down" (Nagashikomu) > >It is entirely likely that Japanese and Korean both >have borrowed this word from the Chinese word "Liu" >(pinyin form) meaning "flow", "circulate", "drift" or >"class". > >So, to end, I doubt that this is, in fact, borrowed by >the Koreans from the Japanese - rather I suspect both >languages have borrowed it from Chinese, which is a >root language for vocabulary for them. > >Hope that helps clear that up, and that the mail isn't >too long. Just thought some explanation of the root of >the word, and the method of entry into both languages >would be helpful in this discussion. > >Best Regards > >Neil <> >Ok - the kanji didn't write in properly - so I have >loaded a jpeg to tinypic - it is available at: > >http://tinypic.com/ejzom > >for the curious >Regards >Neil --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:23:29 -0400 From: "Boit Clinton Capt AF/DPMP" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] one steps -- Ray Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Good catch Ray. I can count on you to keep us straight here. I looked at the Kukkiwon website and found nothing on one steps being a requirement for black belt. I will look at my Kukkiwon text book at home and let ya all know if I find out other wise. ...where the heck did I get that info from....weird... BUT, I still stand by my comment on finding value in one steps. They might be impractical for realistic combat, but they can teach you something valuable! --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Not for Profit Teaching - At Risk Kids To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:33:42 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Any advice as to how to approach various organizations for use of > facilities? This program is going to be aimed at youth through age 17. Since > my clientele will not have the ability to pay, anyone know what > organizations would be willing to donate space? After that, how do I get the > word out? The idea is to give kids a positive alternative to the things they > normally see in their daily culture such as drugs, alcohol and gangs. There seem to be a lot of Korean Baptist churches around. They may be interested in such a program. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Gladewater SBD ... one step To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:40:25 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Do you also do Pyung Ahn one step? Respectful George, :) Sounds interesting. Can you describe the Pyung Ahn one steps? Is that name as in the forms set? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:24:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Samurang To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net and Dr lee (www.hwarangdo.com) Jye Ray Terry wrote: > Those folks would be Doju Nim Ji Han Jae... And I believe that today is his B-Day.?.?. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1800 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "C. Bonner" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:47:34 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: 1-steps, etc. Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Message: 9 >Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 08:10:47 -0400 >From: "Boit Clinton Capt AF/DPMP" >To: >Subject: [The_Dojang] One steps >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >Um...of course our school still practices traditional one steps.  How many TKD >schools out there give Kukkiwon certification (75%+)?  Well, one steps are a >requirement to get Kukkiwon certification.                                                                                                                                               I have never seen any actual 1-step requierments from the Kukkiwon. Were did you get the info? I have seen the Kukkiwon requierments, and 1-steps are not mentioned. I have even been to a few schools that give Kukkiwon certification, that do not do step sparring. Also the percentage of schools in the U.S. that give Kukki certs. Is alot lower than 75%, 10-15% last i checked.            I still teach traditional straight punch 1-steps etc. At white & yellow, after that they are from jabs,crosses,hooks,haymakers,groin kicks,other kicks & techniques. We work up to doing them alive.   Clint Bonner ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Rock, jazz, country, soul & more. Find the music you love on MSN Music! --__--__-- Message: 14 Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:36:37 -0500 From: "Dunn, Danny J GARRISON" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Step Sparring Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Clint, I am Tang Soo Do and we still use probably more than most. We have 60 techniques that we practice, in il soo sik and sam soo sik. The techniques are divided with 5 foot and 5 hand techniques at 2 gup intervals to 1st gup. I think that one steps have value in teaching angles, reaction and targeting. But the point where my practice differs from most is by intermediate level, the practice becomes real. In other words, there is no standing there with your arm hanging out waiting for the counterattack. If you don't react, you get hit, usually in the face. Danny Dunn      <<<  A question,  How many of you still do traditional step techniques ( 1 steps, 2 steps, etc ) with straight punch etc.? how many have modified them, and in what way? And how many have dropped them altogether.   Clint Bonner>>>> --__--__-- Message: 15 From: Klaas Barends Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 05:51:18 +0900 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Fighter in the wind Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net A couple of months ago we talk about the movie 'Fighter in the Wind'. Yesterday I picked up a copy on DVD So for the people who haven't seen it yet, it is now for sale. The movie is about a Korean boy who during the war travels to Japan and becomes a great martial artist. The movie is based on the legends surrounding Mas Oyama, founder of Kyukushinkai karate. -- kind regards, Klaas Barends http://www.hapkido.nl/ http://www.sangmookwan.com/ --__--__-- Message: 16 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 17:00:15 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Bag Work Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sir; I have really enjoyed the BOB Life size kicking targets with the water base. It may work well as it needs no hanging support. It does however require someone to hold it if you kick with heavy contact. It will slide on the floor. JC --__--__-- Message: 17 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 17:05:04 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Ryu Pa Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net If you read the 1st volume text by Grandmaster Hwang Kee he does refer to Ryu Pa as a tradition, and because of his access to Japanese books during the occupation one can only assume he used the Ryu name as a result. I don't have any direct information to support that but it seems logical to me. JC --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest