Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 07:33:02 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #463 - 14 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on behemoth2.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1800 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Ko Dan Ja (Christopher Spiller) 2. Sparring with Students (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 3. Test (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 4. Re:Nomenclature (Bruce Sims) 5. Re: Samurang (Bruce Sims) 6. Sparring (Charles Richards) 7. Student database (Charles Richards) 8. School search unsuccessful (Divetony@aol.com) 9. Should instructors spar with their students? (ChunjiDo@aol.com) 10. Re: ranting on the kkw (ChunjiDo@aol.com) 11. Sparring with students (Eric Walker) 12. RE: Re: ranting on the kkw (Kip McCormick) 13. North Korean websites (Ray Terry) 14. Re: The_Dojang digest - testing (TKDgalSamm@aol.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 17:52:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Christopher Spiller To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Ko Dan Ja Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thanks for the info JC. I have read two or three articles over the years about the Soo Bahk Do Masters Tests and was always very impressed at the rigor of the process. While it's true that testing for a lot of people has basically become a formality, and not necessarily because a new rank has been *earned*, it's nice to see an organization moving in the opposite direction. If you do end up testing in Korea next year it would be great to see a write up of the process for the DD! Taekwon, Chris __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 20:33:12 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Sparring with Students Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Martin I used to spar with all my students years ago. It worked well for me. As long as the instructor spars with the students interest at heart and not just to show off. Now I have several students with senior rank, I have them spar with the juniors and with each other. There is no benefit for me to spar with a white belt or even a 1st or 2nd dan. They don't learn anything but how to get hit, and I just get to practice hitting someone. For that reason I think its better to let students spar each other or may be have a student one or two levels above there rank challenge them I have a student that is a 35 year old 3rd Dan that has been training with me since 1984. I spar him, but mostly try and spar other people my own rank so I can stay sharp. The problem happens when older instructors let there physical training go and start to teach more than they train. I understand that as you get older you will slow down, and that your health may not be as good as it once was, but I have all to often seen instructors that I know were excellent martial artist 10 years ago and are still good instructors with a wealth of knowledge but have stopped intense physical training and have a hard time just demonstrating roundhouse kicks now. "you can't teach what you don't know, and you can't lead where you won't go" JC --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 20:52:40 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Test Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net JR Hilland; I agree an instructor should know the capabilities of there students, I can tell you that most students don't know their own capabilities. Those sad days you refer to as like boot camp most likely drew more out of you than you wanted to demonstrate or thought you were capable of. I stand with what I have already said "A TEST should TEST you" The reality is that both the hard style training and testing yields a different result than the softer approach to training and testing. I recently had a student that graduated from USAF basic training at Lackland AFB. It was a 6 week Boot Camp complete with daily PT, and warrior week. The result was good in all aspects. Compare this to the training endured by the Navy Seal Teams. The result of the harder more intense training is not the same as it is with a 6 week program of less intense training. If I am attacked or one of my students are attacked I want the benefit of having been tested and not just asked to demonstrate a few techniques for a rank promotion. I do however agree with you that money should not be the purpose for testing students. Sometimes the test for an instructor is telling a good student NO you are not ready. JC --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 19:39:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re:Nomenclature Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Dakin: "....Hoo boy, does it ever! [insert tongue in cheek] Why use "Karate" for Korean words like "kongsudo" and "tangsudo?" I think this is simply a failure of the rest of the world to recognize the Koguryo, Paekche and Silla, the ancient Korean kingdoms, invented just about everything and that the Chinese and Japanese are just copycats and idea thieves. [extract tongue] Sorry! Couldn't resist!..." Ok, Ok. Don't be a s*** about it. You know what I mean. I know some ---- ok, a LOT--- of those revisionists have gone overboard. A lot of it gets downright silly. All the same. If people want Korean traditions to be respected someone is going to need to draw the line at all of this interchangeability that keeps getting tossed up. Its getting WAY too common for folks to accept that Kumdo is just Korean Kendo or Hapkido is just Korean Aikido. Interchanging terminology isn't helping. I know there is a relationship among Chinese, Korean and Japanese language and culture, but there needs to be a line drawn somewhere. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce. --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 19:46:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Samurang Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Anthony: "..... I have to tell you, as a student of Haidong Gumdo, I get a little tired of hearing it related to the samurai. The art stands on its own merits and its practitioners' technical proficiency. Nothing else is needed. Why other arts feel the need to dredge up a term like samurang is even more beyond me....." I know what you mean, and I have no idea how to combat this. I, for one, get real tired of having all the Korean traditions routinely bumped up against Japanese traditions as some sort of litmus test for authentification. Then when someone starts pointing out the degree to which Japan imported cultural imperatives from Tang China suddenly the conversation switches to something else. A lot of this "korean traditions died out" seems to come from Japanese oriented practitioners who had a vested interst in seeing Korean traditions die. Fact is that they didn't but the pattern was made and people have been following it ever since. Too bad, really. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 20:56:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Charles Richards To: Dojang Digest Subject: [The_Dojang] Sparring Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I read "Hmmm...Well lets see. Pros: 1. The student will be able to spar against someone better than they are (or should be). 2. The teacher will be able to better judge sparring technique. 3. The teacher will be able to demonstrate "holes" to the student. Cons: Aside from a potential Ego flare up if the instructor gets hit, I can't really think of any. Personally I spar will all of my students. Sometimes en mass, other times one on one. It has improved my sparring as well as theirs." MC Reply Cheers Martin I spar all my students and they start with me. So I would add Untill they demonstrate control and lack of ego I will not put another student at risk, but as owner and instructor, I try to control that risk and yet allow them to grow by sparring me. All of my national champions get another notch above on the intensity meter as I like for my precious children to be overprepared for matches :-) --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 21:02:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Student database Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I read "Does anyone know of any Martial Arts software that is web enabled? Ie. you use it from a web page as opposed to loading the software on one single machine? " MC Reply Master Thomas, A few thoughts...I don't release anything in my student database so I'm not sure I'd want it floating around on the web. If your goal is porting the database on multiple machines then Master Vision can do that with a few steps. 1. Load MV on all the machines (it's a download with 30 day full demo) 2. Use a $20 USB memory stick to copy the entire data subdirectory after closing out new data entry 3. copy the data from the usb to the machine you are working on cycle 2 and 3 as needed I now have a machine at the dojang and here at home and keep the database on my USB stick Try also Webmation's website they might have that service Be Well, MC --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Divetony@aol.com Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 10:16:24 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] School search unsuccessful Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello, I've posted here before, recently (June) earning my black belt (WTF) and moving to Huntersville, NC. After a few months off I need to start training again. Unfortunately there are no WTF schools in the area, the only one that was in Mooresville closed the beginning of this month. So I am stuck with no school in the vicinity. I'm not sure I would want to start again at a different organization, perhaps someone has a suggestrion of another martial art to switch to at 44 years old. There isn't much in the area, anyone in the area interested in starting a WTF school, as a first Dan obviously I am not qualified but if we could get a Master in I think it would be successful, there are many children in the area and the area is growing rapidly. Missing TKD but having a tough time getting started again. Tony --__--__-- Message: 9 From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 13:52:09 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Should instructors spar with their students? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Respected Dojang Members, I would like to know the opinions of the Digest on what are the pros and cons of instructors sparring with their students? Thanks, Patrick Baeder __________________________ dunno about respected, but in giving my opinion, i'd have to agree with martin. by sparring ones own students, it lifts their level up. they have to fight harder than, say, when fighting someone of less skill then themselves. also keeps you sharp. your student will learn more when fighting more advanced students and instructors, as long as those students and instructors have control. its also helpful to pause and explain, instruct, along the way. it helps you see what needs work and you can take care of that right then and there. also helps the instructor know where they've been slacking off on their own workout...lol. take care, melinda Chajonshim Martial Arts Academy _www.cjmaa.com_ (http://www.cjmaa.com/) 1.573.673.2769 Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply _www.cjmas.com_ (http://www.cjmas.com/) 1.877.847.4072 --__--__-- Message: 10 From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 14:01:18 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: ranting on the kkw Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Melinda- You are correct -- the kukkiwon website does show one-step techniques. My point is that those one steps are not required by the kukkiwon to advance in rank. That's up to the individual instructor. ___________________ hola, LTC kip... youre preaching to the choir on some of this. step sparring: nope, not required, but in the curriculum. yep, the kkw is a political, and somewhat racially biased, greedfest. yep, the value of kkw certs are subjective. i offer them and will continue to offer them as long as i continue to be kkw certified in rank. i am lucky to have an instructor who charges what the kkw charges foreigners and only a bit more for his time. i dont have a greedy master, thankfully. i will also accept certification as proof of rank for new members to my school. however, no one's gonna promote any further unless they "show that they know". i've never been to the kkw to test, but i've heard its rather lame from several individuals who've tested there. i would still love to go at some point to visit as it is the mecca of tkd, if you will. yes, i agree kkw tkd has been cheapened by all of the politics. same goes with the ustu ...heck, same goes with hkd and other arts, non-korean. as long as there are people, there will be politics. all we can do is try to put out better students who put out better students, and so on. i dont have aspirations of greatness. i have aspirations of great students. hopefully, they will make the changes that need to be made in our corner of the world which will have greater effects on the big picture. in the mean time, i'll eat more rice. take care, melinda Chajonshim Martial Arts Academy _www.cjmaa.com_ (http://www.cjmaa.com/) 1.573.673.2769 Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply _www.cjmas.com_ (http://www.cjmas.com/) 1.877.847.4072 --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Eric Walker" To: Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 15:02:17 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Sparring with students Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Cons: White belts can make you look bad, because you can never let your ego take control, and they often don't understand light or medium contact. And they don't know enough to know that they can't get alick in on you. :) Also they are seriously dangerous in their lack of control, and undeveloped balance. I suspect I'm not alone in saying that a large white belt is why I now have a reconstructed right knee. I'll very rarely spar a white belt. And I'll never be the first to do so, I send my senior student out to do that! Pros: "1. The student will be able to spar against someone better than they are (or should be). 2. The teacher will be able to better judge sparring technique. 3. The teacher will be able to demonstrate "holes" to the student." I'd tend to agree with what Mr. Von Cannon says here. I'd also add that the teacher will also improve, because every one fights differently, having said that though, I'm new to hapkido compared to some on this list, and relatively young. I'm sure some of the geezers on this list have no reason to spar with students anymore. They have plenty of dumb first dan's (like me) to take care of that for them. ;) Eric --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Kip McCormick" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: ranting on the kkw Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 13:40:32 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >i dont have aspirations of greatness. i have aspirations of great >students. >hopefully, they will make the changes that need to be made in our corner >of >the world which will have greater effects on the big picture. > Great post, Melinda. Thanks and keep training hard, and training your students to be hard! Kip > > > >Chajonshim Martial Arts Academy >_www.cjmaa.com_ (http://www.cjmaa.com/) 1.573.673.2769 >Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply >_www.cjmas.com_ (http://www.cjmas.com/) 1.877.847.4072 >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 1800 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 13 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 19:26:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] North Korean websites Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Forwarding... While the crisis of capitalism forces the Dow Jones capitalist lackeys to strangle their reptile organ, the DPRK's online presence continues to grow in both quantity and quality, guided by the rays of the great Juche idea and the solicitude of the fatherly Leader. (Motherly too, as Brian Myers recently pointed out in his coruscating piece in Atlantic Monthly.) To wit (and apologies if everyone except me knows this already): 1. I've just been alerted to a new website for North Korean publications. It looks pretty comprehensive. (A varied bill of fare, too: see below.) Korea publications Export & Import Corporation / Beijing Sunyong Scientific Technology trade Co., Ltd. http://www.korea-publ.com Email:admin@korea-publ.com 2. Also, the main North Korean Naenara site (www.kcckp.net), which we discussed here back in July, has now become far more user-friendly. No need to register any more, and you can access recent issues of the Pyongyang Times, Korea Today, Foreign Trade of the DPRK, and more. (The link to KCNA seems not to work; but that, as ever, is available directly at http://www.kcna.co.jp) Among other resources, this includes the full text of the DPRK Constitution; and also of no fewer than 38 different laws and regulations pertaining to foreign business (at http://www.kcckp.net/en/trade/trade-rule.php) Other delights include sections on art, tourism, politics and more. You can also listen to music - in theory. In practice, repeated buffering problems marred my enjoyment of the Korean People's Army Merited Chorus (eleven full CDs available: you can even follow the musical score). While clearly still a work in progress, this is a thoroughly professional site (with North Korean characteristics), and extremely useful. Fraternally, Aidan FC AIDAN FOSTER-CARTER Honorary Senior Research Fellow in Sociology & Modern Korea, Leeds University 17 Birklands Road, Shipley, West Yorkshire, BD18 3BY, UK --__--__-- Message: 14 From: TKDgalSamm@aol.com Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 23:20:49 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: The_Dojang digest - testing Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 10/29/2004 7:59:58 PM Central Standard Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: I sadly remember the days when a belt test was like going to boot camp. I am way to old such nonsense, so are some of my students. But financial gains are the driving force behind many belt organizational testing rules and regulations. I think many have forgotten that it is not about the destination but about the journey. Jere R. Hilland The last testing I went through for 2nd Dan was like that, only worse than boot camp. I paid a small fortune for five days of torture. If I hadn't been in the middle of no where miles and miles from home, I would have left. It was the last testing I really care to go through. I agree with you 100%. It is NOT about the destination. What a good post. Thanks. Loretta --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest