Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 17:14:03 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #464 - 13 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on behemoth2.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1800 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: HEALING ARTS (PETER.MCDONALDSMITH@london-fire.gov.uk) 2. Re: Sparring with students (Jye nigma) 3. Re: Should instructors spar with their students? (Jye nigma) 4. Testing in Korea (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 5. Quote (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 6. testing (J R Hilland) 7. testing (J R Hilland) 8. Re: Sparring with students (Bruce Sims) 9. Re: Sparring with students (craig@cfrscca.net) 10. Re: testing (Ray Terry) 11. Re: Re: Sparring with students (jeffrey kiral) 12. Re: Sparring with students (jeffrey kiral) 13. Control Defensive Tactics (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] HEALING ARTS Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 15:19:09 -0000 From: To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net is there any healing arts associated to Korea or TKD specifically? or am I right in thinking that Korean healing arts will be like Chinese healing arts? -----Original Message----- From: Charles Richards [mailto:mojakwan@yahoo.com] Sent: 30 October 2004 05:03 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Student database I read "Does anyone know of any Martial Arts software that is web enabled? Ie. you use it from a web page as opposed to loading the software on one single machine? " MC Reply Master Thomas, A few thoughts...I don't release anything in my student database so I'm not sure I'd want it floating around on the web. If your goal is porting the database on multiple machines then Master Vision can do that with a few steps. 1. Load MV on all the machines (it's a download with 30 day full demo) 2. Use a $20 USB memory stick to copy the entire data subdirectory after closing out new data entry 3. copy the data from the usb to the machine you are working on cycle 2 and 3 as needed I now have a machine at the dojang and here at home and keep the database on my USB stick Try also Webmation's website they might have that service Be Well, MC _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1800 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang **************************************************************************** SMOKE ALARMS SAVE LIVES Go to London Fire at www.london-fire.gov.uk/firesafety This email is confidential to the addressee only. If you do not believe that you are the intended addressee, do not use, pass on or copy it in any way. If you have received it in error, please delete it immediately and telephone the supplied number, reversing the charges if necessary. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 07:50:37 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Sparring with students To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net some thoughts below: Eric Walker wrote: White belts can make you look bad, because you can never let your ego take control, and they often don't understand light or medium contact. And they don't know enough to know that they can't get alick in on you. I think it's always good to remember a white belt in most systems simply means the person is believed to be new to that particular system. *Notice it doesn't mean anything else. It doesn't mean they don't know how to fight, they don't have control, etc etc. A white belt in TKD could very well be a 10th dan in some other system. Also they are seriously dangerous in their lack of control, and undeveloped balance. I suspect I'm not alone in saying that a large white belt is why I now have a reconstructed right knee. I think where alot of people go wrong is they judge by belts. A belt does not determine the actual skill set of an individual nor does it determine their knowledge base. So when I spar a white belt, or black belt, or grandmaster, I let each individual set the pace. *one should always be ready no matter who they are sparring. >I'll very rarely spar a white belt. And I'll never be the first to do so, I send my senior student out to do that! lol..that's terrible. You could meet a blackbelt who is just as careless. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 08:09:33 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Should instructors spar with their students? To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net As a teacher of anything, one should have a standard by which they judge their students. Now some people are doers, and what this means is, you should them how to do something and they will do it beautifully and accurately, HOWEVER; this doesn't means they know the why, and when to do it. In other words, their skill is only cosmetics. So as with anything that is taught the only way to see what has comprehended is to test the pupil.So one form of testing is sparring. A teacher that doesn't spar their students are missing out on a major part of a teaching process. I guess it depends on the teachers motivation. Some are teaching strictly for financial gain, some to boost their super ego, and some actually care about the art/system. The analogy is this. Some schools are like machines, mass producing martial artist. Meanwhile others are like a shop where the product is handmade. If you look at 2 similar things 1 that is mass produced, and the other which is handmade, you'll see there may be much more artistic expression captured in the other thing. Students are the same way. You have schools where the teaching is very inpersonal where the teacher has their student teacher teach class and spar with others while the teacher watches and critiques. Then you have other teachers who have no problem with watching a class and jumping in to cross hands with their students. For me, a teacher who teaches hands on meaning spars with their students is truly preserving the integrity of the art. They are also seeing first hand how that particular student is comprehending/implimenting what has been taught. The down side is you do run a risk of being injured because no matter what your skill set is, you are still human. Jye ChunjiDo@aol.com wrote: Respected Dojang Members, I would like to know the opinions of the Digest on what are the pros and cons of instructors sparring with their students? Thanks, Patrick Baeder --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 10:53:23 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Testing in Korea Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Chris; Thank You for your reply; I was given the option to test in Korea October 2005 during the 60th anniversary of the Moo Duk Kwan or test in California this January. I chose to test in January. I still plan to attend the 60th anniversary celebration in Korea next October but wanted to go without having to be focused on a week of testing. JC --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 11:05:54 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Quote Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Loretta; I believe it was a famous general that said "If it does not kill you, it will only serve to make you stronger" JC --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 11:47:19 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] testing Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> Sure they do. At least my student do. Maybe it is in the way our hapkido classes are taught. It is amazing what happens when you treat adults like adults. <> Now you are adding training into the equation. When I was younger I would have agreed with your statement. But, It is ALL in the training. Everything else is superficial. A belt promotion is a recognition of rank. But now you are comparing different types of training. I have no idea what you imply by stating "different that the softer approach to training...". <> You are making allot of assumptions about our training method and testing. Your are also missing the big picture. But I will refer to my previous statement that it is ALL in the training. The attacker does not care what type of belt the other person has hanging on the wall back home. When I first put on a white belt over 30 years ago, I saw the attitude your projecting in a few of my teachers. It was usually the younger ones more impressed with credentials. I learned from the older more experienced teachers and who did not care so much about rank, it was ALL about quality of technique. ALL about the training. Back in college, at Texas A&M University in the mid 80's, I had a hapkido student who was also a kenpo student. I do not remember if he was part of Ed Parker's system or not. They took your 'boot camp' attitude of testing to the extreme. They could only test for 1st dan once a year. Every year we would watch him go to this test site in another part of the country and wait for his turn to test. If they did not get to you, you have to return next year. He went every year and never tested. 5 years later I tested him for his hapkido chodan. Still never having had tested in kenpo. If you train your student correctly, the test is simply a by product. If I never test again, it will make NO difference in my technique or my ability to defend myself. Jere R. Hilland www.rrhapkido.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 11:53:58 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] testing Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<> Loretta. Sorry you had to endure such a test and expense. I am way to old to even join the military (I was a USAF brat) and I have ZERO desire to do anything other than demonstrate my technique and ability when testing. But as long as there is money to be made and people want to control other people, it will continue. Jere R. Hilland www.rrhapkido.com --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 12:12:36 -0800 (PST) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Sparring with students Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I can't actually speak to sparring with students since we do not spar in Hapkido. However, I believe that it is very important for a teacher to both apply and receive technique from a student rather than simply observe and continually execute the technique. My experience is that unless a teacher actually receives the technique how can one truly assess whether the person is performing the corrections a teacher makes in a technique? One would think that a teacher would at the very least be able to receive technique and take care of themselves such that they could continue to correct for poor execution. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 22:52:25 -0000 (Local time zone must be set--see zic manual page) Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Sparring with students From: craig@cfrscca.net To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > some thoughts below: > > Eric Walker wrote: > White belts can make you look bad, because you can never let your > ego take control, and they often don't understand light or medium contact. > And they don't know enough to know that they can't get alick in on you. > > I think it's always good to remember a white belt in most systems simply > means the person is believed to be new to that particular system. *Notice > it doesn't mean anything else. It doesn't mean they don't know how to > fight, they don't have control, etc etc. A white belt in TKD could very > well be a 10th dan in some other system. > > > > Also they are seriously dangerous in their lack of control, and > undeveloped balance. I suspect I'm not alone in saying that a large white > belt is why I now have a reconstructed right knee. > > I think where alot of people go wrong is they judge by belts. A belt does > not determine the actual skill set of an individual nor does it determine > their knowledge base. So when I spar a white belt, or black belt, or > grandmaster, I let each individual set the pace. *one should always be > ready no matter who they are sparring. > >>I'll very rarely spar a white belt. And I'll never be the first to do so, >> I send my senior student out to do that! > > lol..that's terrible. You could meet a blackbelt who is just as careless. > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 1800 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > > As someone who has recently returned to TKD, I'd like to offer my two cents. I left TKD as a second degree (was ready for the 2nd degree test but ran out of time) and used to spar with anyone. After returning to TKD, I found myself having a huge lack of skill. I was unable to hit my targets properly, and was having balance issues (partly due to the addition of a knee brace). It does not matter the rank of the person. Like other have said, when sparing, you must almost ignore the rank and deal with the person individually. this practive adds a very important aspect to simulating combat on the street. When you meet someone in the street, you don't know if they are traine at all or not. This person could be any or no rank. Sometimes it is really useful to spar a with other of drasticly different rank because they keep you on your toes. I apologize if I"m ranting, and thank you for letting me babble. --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] testing To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 17:49:05 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > If you train your student correctly, the test is simply a by product. If I > never test again, it will make NO difference in my technique or my ability > to defend myself. Truly an excellent point. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "jeffrey kiral" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Sparring with students Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 21:11:47 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net who doesnt spar in hapkido? we do....is there anyone else in hapkido that doesnt spar? why? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Sims" To: Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 3:12 PM Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Sparring with students > I can't actually speak to sparring with students since > we do not spar in Hapkido. --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "jeffrey kiral" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Sparring with students Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 21:13:50 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net excellent thoughts....like what you had to say about "skill" and "rank" ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 5:52 PM Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Sparring with students > > I think where alot of people go wrong is they judge by belts. A belt does > > not determine the actual skill set of an individual nor does it determine > > their knowledge base. So when I spar a white belt, or black belt, or > > grandmaster, I let each individual set the pace. *one should always be > > ready no matter who they are sparring. --__--__-- Message: 13 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 18:13:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Control Defensive Tactics Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net ALERT Publishing, Inc., the leader in multimedia Law Enforcement training and NLETC, the leader in hands on Control Defensive Tactics training, have developed the most dynamic and effective training ever. Each NLETC course is now fully supported by a series of new multimedia lessons. These lessons are available on DVD or videocassettes. This combination of hands on training and multimedia support ensures greater lesson retention by your officers. The NLETC Control Defensive Tactics and disarming techniques are field proven, reliable, medically safe, and court defensible. This training, designed to improve instructional and physical skills includes: * Weapon Retention * Ground Defense, NLETC's pre-eminent ground defense and control systems for officers developed by Brad Inman * Edged Weapon Defense/Disarming, a critical skill on the street and in Correction Facilities * Lateral Vascular Neck Restraint, Jim Lindell's acclaimed system for controlling aggressive/assault persons * OC Aerosol Control and Defense, effectively uses OC to reduce the need for greater force * Power Handcuffing, safely cuff in 2-3 seconds in a wide variety of field and correctional situations * Arm Control/Escort, (ACES) a system for safe control, takedown, handcuffing, searching, escort and transport * Control Defensive Tactics System a complete Control and Defense, course that covers all NLETC principles Maximize officer safety and effectiveness while minimizing exposure to legal risk. After all, isn't the goal at the end of the day to go home SAFE? ALERT and NLETC can now arrange live training at your facility or your trainers can attend one of our scheduled sessions. Call your ALERT sales representative to discuss a full list of course offerings and to choose the mix of live and multimedia training best suited to your needs. ALERT Publishing, Inc. info@alert45.com www.alert45.com 314-533-7200 --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest