Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 17:01:24 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #466 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1800 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. from The Pyongyang Times (Ray Terry) 2. Gladewater.......saying (CStovall@nucorar.com) 3. receiving technique (Sharon Tkach) 4. RE: Gladewater.......saying (Kevin F. Donohue) 5. ITF Saga... (Master Arce) 6. Re: NC Schools (Divetony@aol.com) 7. Re: Re: NC Schools (Ken) 8. Extendend Day Test (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 9. RE: ITF Saga (Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy) 10. Testing the testers (Ray Terry) 11. RE: RE: ITF Saga -- Kip's Take (Kip McCormick) 12. Re: Re: Hapkido Sparring (jeffrey kiral) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 08:45:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] from The Pyongyang Times Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Founding and development of Kojoson The Korean people are a homogeneous nation with 5,000-year history that spoke the same language and developed culture. Tangun was the founder of Kojoson, or Ancient Korea, the first slave state in the Korean history. During the excavation of Tangun's tomb in 1993, it was confirmed that he was born to the chieftain of a community in Pyongyang 5,011 267 years ago. From childhood he practised archery, spearsmanship, swordsmanship and other martial arts. Tangun who became chieftain in succession to his father reorganized the primitive political mechanism into an advanced power machine and finally founded the first class state in the 30th century BC. Ancient Korea existed for nearly 3,000 years until 108 BC, covering a vast territory in Northeast Asia centring around Pyongyang. It was not only the first state of the Korean nation but also the first ancient state in the East. The process of state building by Tangun is told in the form of myth in old history books of Korea including The Annals of the Three Kingdoms, Jewangungi, the geography part of The Royal Records of Sejong. The myths tell about social aspects between the closing years of the primitive society and the eve of the appearance of the state and the process of founding Ancient Korea. Tangun made the primitive social organization represent the interests of the privileged and combined it with violence to form a power machine comprising administrative, judicial and military organs. On the basis of this, he set up the capital in Pyongyang in the early 30th century BC, founded the country and named it Joson (Korea). This means that Ancient Korea was built in the similar period with the ancient states in the Nile Basin and Mesopotamia that are worldly known as cradlelands of human civilization and predated those in the Indus and Yellow River basins. Therefore, it was the first state in the East. With the appearance of Tangun Korea, more than a million-year-long primitive age gave way to the era of state and the Korean nation entered the era of civilization for the first time in the East. History of Ancient Korea is divided into early Korea (Tangun Korea), late Korea and Man's Korea. Pyongyang was the capital and the political, economic and cultural hub of the ancient state throughout its existence. Its territory changed a bit according to period but it mainly bordered on the Liaoxi area of China to the west. Hereditary monarchy of kings was backed up by the central and local ruling mechanism. Eight Clauses Stipulating Bans, a written criminal law, and other laws were instituted and a powerful military force was built up. This shows that Ancient Korea had a comparatively advanced ruling system. Progress was made in the economy. In the late third millennium BC iron making started and it developed remarkably enough to turn out a large quantity of ironware including farm implements in the second millennium BC. Meanwhile, handicraft including pottery and trade grew. In the period of Tangun Korea, the Korean characters called Sinji were invented and literature and the arts improved. Ancient Koreans were fond of singing and dancing and observed noble customs and manners. They cultivated five kinds of grains, bred domestic animals and fowls and caught fish. They grew hemp and silkworm to weave fabric and made various forms of clothes. They were courteous with fine morality. One of the Eastern powers, Ancient Korea developed national culture and traditions and demonstrated its state power for nearly 3,000 years. Ri Thaek Gwon, MSc, associate professor at the History Department of Kim Il Sung University --__--__-- Message: 2 From: CStovall@nucorar.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 11:17:23 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Gladewater.......saying Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> Ohhhhhhh, sorry but you're going to have to settle for the year supply of Turtle Wax. "What does not kill me makes me stronger"...Johann Wolfgang von Goethe. But...9 out of 10 people think Neitzche said it. CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entities named above. If this email was received in error or if read by a party which is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, disclosure, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error or are unsure whether it contains confidential or privileged information, please immediately notify us by email or telephone. You are instructed to destroy any and all copies, electronic, paper or otherwise, which you may have of this communication if you are not the intended recipient. Receipt of this communication by any party shall not be deemed a waiver of any legal privilege of any type whatsoever as such privilege may relate to the sender. --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Sharon Tkach" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 11:51:34 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] receiving technique Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce wrote: >My experience is that unless a teacher actually receives >the technique how can one truly assess whether the >person is performing the corrections a teacher makes >in a technique? By watching the student's form, balance, breathing, positioning, movement, degree of force used, and the result of all the afore-mentioned on the partner. Of course, receiving the tech yourself tells you a lot, but in a class-setting, it's not time-efficient for the instructor to personally partner every student. >One would think that a teacher would >at the very least be able to receive technique and >take care of themselves such that they could continue >to correct for poor execution. FWIW. Many times yes; sometimes no. Sometimes we put ourselves at risk for our partner so they can learn or practice. What instructor on the list hasn't had a student who has been struggling with a technique finally get it right and tweak you? Were you angry or were you pleased with the student? Who on the list has never been the one causing the partner pain? This is what we do for each other. ~Sharon --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 14:53:50 -0500 From: "Kevin F. Donohue" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Gladewater.......saying To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Actually Nietzsche did say it in "Twilight of the Idols" (1895) as one of the 44 points pertaining to "Maxims & Arrows" Number 8 states: "Out of life's school of war: What does not destroy me, makes me stronger." The closest I have ever seen Johann Wolfgang von Goethe come to the above statement was: "Enjoy when you can, and endure when you must." Please assist in educating me by stating the title and passage of Johann Wolfgang von Goethe's work. Thanks. Kevin F. Donohue -----Original Message----- From: CStovall@nucorar.com [mailto:CStovall@nucorar.com] Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 12:17 PM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Gladewater.......saying <<>> Ohhhhhhh, sorry but you're going to have to settle for the year supply of Turtle Wax. "What does not kill me makes me stronger"...Johann Wolfgang von Goethe. But...9 out of 10 people think Neitzche said it. CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email transmission contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entities named above. If this email was received in error or if read by a party which is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, disclosure, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error or are unsure whether it contains confidential or privileged information, please immediately notify us by email or telephone. You are instructed to destroy any and all copies, electronic, paper or otherwise, which you may have of this communication if you are not the intended recipient. Receipt of this communication by any party shall not be deemed a waiver of any legal privilege of any type whatsoever as such privilege may relate to the sender. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 1800 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 12:01:10 -0800 (PST) From: Master Arce To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] ITF Saga... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net My oh my, what a tangled web we weave! :) Master Terry, that ("ITF Saga") is an UNDERSTATEMENT! :) Peace, Steve __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 15:07:46 -0500 From: Divetony@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: NC Schools Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net JC, Please send me the information, I'm not sure how far I am from those places either but I would be interested in finding out. Thank You Tony --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Ken" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: NC Schools Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 15:56:46 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net were do youlive in Nc ? I live in asheboro, ansd there are a couple of good schools here ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 3:07 PM Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: NC Schools > JC, > Please send me the information, I'm not sure how far I am from those places either but I would be interested in finding out. > Thank You > > Tony > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 1800 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 14:59:02 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Extendend Day Test Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sir; You wrote that "All this extended, several day test stuff is nonsense" However it is apparent that the Late Grandmaster Hwang Kee did not think so. He originally wanted the test to last a month. I suspect that there would be fewer people claiming to be masters and grandmasters if they had to pass a test every time they were promoted It seems to me people have found an easier way. They create there own organizations, promote themselves, and teach with no guidelines to divide rank and skill. It seems someone can say I have been training 5 years now I get a Black Belt Frankly I have seen some Black Belts that were pathetic I think everyone should train hard. Earn the right to be tested for rank promotion. If they pass the test they are promoted. You don't pass you go back and train harder. I do agree with you that instructors should not send students for promotion unless they are ready, but many do because of politics and money. you mentioned a tournament were you did a demonstration. Was that the Yong Zeeb tournament? I met you there and I watched you demonstration. I also won the Self-Defense Grand Champion trophy. I respect other styles. It is the lack of legitimacy I dislike. I mean people claiming what ever they want. I say set a standard for what a black belt should be mentally, physically, and spiritually. Test the students and if they pass award them and if they don't, encourage them to try harder, but don't make provisions for them, (no double standards). JC --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 16:51:15 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: ITF Saga Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net First off, I'd like to thank Ray for posting such a great article which in essence shows the political corruption within the ITF that has gotten worse ESPECIALLY since Gen. Choi passed away. It's truely a damn shame that NO other martial art has this much corruption going on within it's ranks but TKD does and thus is publicized for all to see. If any other MA has this much corruption, how come you don't hear about it? I love TKD and will continue to practice and teach it to the best of my ability for as long as I am physically and mentally capable. Just because others (Mr. Mencia in the post) have chosen to feel comfortable in frauding the TKD community with his paid rank, does not mean I choose to or care for those who do. This particular post by Ray caught my attention because I have met several who were mentioned. It was a brief meeting in 1989 but nonetheless a highlight of my KMA career. What I found very interesting is the mention of dates and certificate numbers. Let me give a very brief history of my KMA background before I ask what I need to ask: Began MDKTSD in 1983 under two black belts of Master Sok Ho Kang. Changed to CDKTKD in 1984 when my MDKTSD instructors quit showing up for classes..... At my instructor's discretion, went from independent to joining the World Martial Arts Association, to ITF/USTF, back to WMAA from 1984 - approx. 1994. (Did alot of association bouncing and belt changing during that time). His instructor had passed away and was up in the air as to what direction to take our school. Now, since I run the school, am proudly with Master Hodder/USKMAF since March 2003. I have a USTF I Dan certificate, signed by Master C.E. Seffeff with number 2288A on it and it is dated July 15, 1987. I thought that day was funny since I did not actually test for my I Dan until 10 days later on July 25, 1987.. I just took it as the USTF misreading the application submitted by my Sa Bum.. My instructor at the time put us under the USTF more or less for guidance and directive and to have a NGB. I also received an "International Taekwon-Do Federation Life Time Membership" card and a "United States Taekwon-Do Federation Lifetime Membership" card with the same numbers on them. They are both dated 1989 ( the year we traveled to Pennsylvania and met these Masters and Gen. Choi). Why the two year difference?? I don't know. The ITF card is white and the USTF card is grey/silver. So, my question is, if my instructor paid for my "Lifetime Membership" to these organizations, are they still valid??? I have the cards, I have the certificates, I have EVERYTHING. I was just hoping that someone who views this digest with the power to research this kind of thing can help a dude out here. As always, I respect and appreciate all replies, whether on the DD or in private. Thank you to all. James Morgan GTKDA www.gtkda.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 13:58:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Testing the testers Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > You wrote that "All this extended, several day test stuff is nonsense" > However it is apparent that the Late Grandmaster Hwang Kee did not think so. > He originally wanted the test to last a month. I suspect that there would be > fewer people claiming to be masters and grandmasters if they had to pass a > test every time they were promoted. Who tested Hwang Kee for his master and grandmaster rank? Heck, who tested him for his 1st Dan? Correct response.... no one. Ray "Hope you get my point" Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Kip McCormick" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] RE: ITF Saga -- Kip's Take Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 16:09:21 -0800 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net James: First, for all the folks on the dd who don't know you, I'm going to do a character reference: James is a fellow warrior from the Joint Security Area, Panmunjom, United Nations Command, Republic of Korea and has stared down evil on a daily basis, ready to put his life on the line not only for his country but for Korea (the free side and all it stands for). Thanks for your service, my friend, and I still owe you a bottle of snake wine from North Korea. (We'll try to make up for that in Jackson in the spring?) Second, certificates don't mean a whole heck of a lot. Don't get me wrong, if you're an instructor and your certificate says you're part of an organization, you'd better be legit with that organization. And if you're charging students money for your tests and giving them a certificate, dog gone it, make sure you're saying who you are and charging a fair price (i.e. a Korea Hapkido Federation and certain former guest columnist in taekwondo times comes to mind -- I'm not opening that whole can of worms on this list -- YIKES!) Having said that, what does a certificate really mean? If I'm approached by a jerk on the street who wants to do damage to me, my loved ones, or my way of life (God bless America! Or any other country in the free world who support democratic values), holding a freakin' certificate in front of his or her face will only tick him off and probably give me a paper cut before he (or she, for you R.C. cola moon pie eatin' babes out there) takes my head off. I go back to my last post on the kukkiwon and how we put so much emphasis on that certification. Unless you're running a tae kwon do school in Korea or you want to be part of Olympic tae kwon do, which I say is not real tae kwon do but that's for another posting, don't worry about that coveted certificate that costs too much and doesn't mean a lot off the peninsula. My students know I'm "qualified" to teach by my actions, not what I hang on the wall. You establish your credibility through that. I'd rather have a handshake from my instructor saying, "well done, brother" than a certificate to hang on a wall. But if I charge them $$$ for a certificate, I'd better make sure it's legit and that the dates are right. And lifetime membership? PLEASE!!!! Can it get me into a special "club"? Reminds of the Flintstones, where Fred and Barney are members of the Royal Order of Buffaloes and learn the secret handshake while chanting "Walla walla walla...MOOOOOSE!" Okay, enough ranting and raving. My bottom line: 1) If you're an instructor and you're offering certification, be up front with your students on what that certification means; 2) If you're a student, focus on being a better martial artist, not on a piece of paper to hang on the wall. My flak vest is on, as is my kevlar...comments? Kip --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "jeffrey kiral" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Hapkido Sparring Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 20:35:31 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net imho...sparring seems to be a vitle part of ma training...even if it is slightly modified as in the case of our methods...i.e. attempt to avoid groin shots, no fully engaged stomp attacks to grounded oppenents, letting go of chokes or locks at tap out. other than those mod's, it seems to be pretty intense....even with the occasional poorly controlled vital area shots.... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Sims" To: Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 8:08 AM Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Hapkido Sparring > Dear Jeffrey: > > ".....who doesnt spar in hapkido? we do....is there > anyone else in hapkido that doesnt spar? why?...." > > Sparring in Hapkido can be a bit like standard MA > competition, which is to say that it requires the > introduction of rules or guidelines to safeguard the > participants. Hapkido is an art of accuracy, of > precision and of detail and that is what I need to > have my students focusing on. With the focus on the > points that I have mentioned I encourage the students > to use ever-increasing levels of authority when they > excute the techniques. I suppose, were it possible to > "spar" with committed attacks then there might be some > purpose for us to use it. What I have seen of sparring > involves techniques which are modified to reduce the > possibility of injury. Rather than modify the Hapkido > techniques to this end, we just don't use it. FWIW. > > Best Wishes, > > Bruce > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 1800 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest