Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 09:29:06 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #470 - 13 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1800 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. From an article...teachers and students (Jye nigma) 2. Re: Martial vs Military (Bruce Sims) 3. dance and marital arts (Boit Clinton Capt AF/DPMP) 4. Re: Towards a Minimal Hapkido Standard (Bruce Sims) 5. Re: More stuff along the way (ABurrese@aol.com) 6. Sparring gear (chet reyes) 7. Re: Jeremy Anderson (luke rose) 8. Re: J.R. West (luke rose) 9. dance class (michael tomlinson) 10. Re: Sparring gear (Ken) 11. Re: dance and marital arts (Jeremy Anderson) 12. Re: Re: Jeremy Anderson (Jeremy Anderson) 13. hapkido technique (J R Hilland) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 06:56:56 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] From an article...teachers and students Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The Teacher and the Student The Tao of Teaching by Wen-Ching Wu Being a teacher is like being a student, for when teachers teach they also learn. To teach is to exchange energy, which is mutually enlightening. Knowledge is for everyone to share, for it is a privilege and an obligation to have it. Open-mindedness gives us greater growth, for teachers can also learn from students. Be grateful for each other, for it is through others that we are provided with an opportunity to grow. Give thanks everyday, for being more realized than yesterday. There is no boundary to learning, for today's learning is a stepping stone for tomorrow's advancement. It is usually easier for a student to locate a good teacher, than for a teacher to find good students. When they find each other, it is a beneficial and rewarding experience, like finding a mutual treasure. When they meet, it is like when long lost friends find each other. It is a very happy encounter. They appreciate the times they have together. While the teacher guides the student, the teacher also benefits from the new feedback and insights of the student. When a teacher teaches and interacts with students, he or she also continues to learn from their rich and diverse backgrounds Teachers are in a position of great influence, tremendous power and responsibility. What they say or do has a significant impact on the students' open mind. In martial arts, teachers are more than just someone who provides knowledge and technical information; they are also our mentors, and wise, loyal advisers. They are our trusted friend, our confidant, and the source of our aspiration. Being a teacher and being a student is like Yin and Yang; without one, the other can't exist. Just as within Yin there is inherent Yang, and within Yang there is inherent Yin, being a teacher is simultaneously being a student which is reflected in the dynamic and mutual balance between the two. Unfortunately, just as there is not a set of instructions for life, there is not a manual on the proper conduct of being a teacher or a student. There are, of course, many moral virtues and stepping stones that are used as a guide for teachers and students to achieve high standards, both physically and spiritually. Today, many of the once understood and followed martial virtues and ethics have been written down. It is a wonderful reminder of the righteous practice of martial arts. The down side, as Laozi stated in the Tao Te Ching, is when the rules of conduct have to be written down and imposed; tagged with punishments for the offenders, society has already degenerated. These virtues are meant to be inherent within each one of us. It is a disgrace that we need to be reminded. Worse yet, many of these rules are abused and used contrary to the original intent of the virtues. Many have become a means to restrict the development of individuality by the enforcer and used as a way of control. It is said that the greatest achievement in Chinese martial arts training is to, "develop the will to exert and strive hard without stopping when encountering powerful opposition." This statement also implies that we stand firm in our convictions and act in accordance with our conscience. For the fortunate ones, we have teachers that help us with our goals and determinism. When we are born, we are like sponges ready to absorb the world. When we have absorbed the world that we once knew, we are faced with a new world to absorb. We absorb all that we can without discriminating between good or bad, for we know not the difference. Fortunately, there are good mentors that can be our guides. Thank you to the great teachers for being our mentors and inspiration, for their humility while they teach, and for guiding us while not attempting to change who we are. Thank you to the teachers whose philosophical differences provide us with a deeper insight into our convictions. As there can't be Yin without the existence of Yang, we would not recognize and appreciate a great teacher without also knowing a not so great teacher. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 07:28:53 -0800 (PST) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Martial vs Military Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net ".....> As for being good for military what does martial mean......" These words often get used interchangeably only because they are related to some extent. I think its important to make sure that we keep them distinct from each other. As Ray pointed out in his post the term "Martial" tends to reflect attitudes or a state of mind or values appropriate to war or a warriors' mentality. "Military" refers to those behaviors, persons, places and things that are used by the organization. In this way, a miltary person might recieve an order from his ranking senior. Adherence to a respect for Martial deportment is what promotes them to carry that order out. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 10:27:27 -0500 From: "Boit Clinton Capt AF/DPMP" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] dance and marital arts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jeremy, I think dance has some merit to self-defense. My robot-dance usually renders my opponents unable to attack....(due to laughing). --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 08:09:24 -0800 (PST) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Towards a Minimal Hapkido Standard Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Folks: The following two posts were published by me on the MARTIAL TALK Net. Feedback would be appreciated. “……………………………………. Post #1 Dear Folks: I apologize in advance, but frankly I have been having a lot of trouble cross-referencing various themes in the two mega-strings. I Thought I would tease out a single thought and give an example here, off to one side, for those who might be interested. You will recall that on one of the Strings we had a series of Basic or Introductory Kicking Techniques. Each of five groups had their own take on the role of kicking in Hapkido and their own catalog or curriculum of introductory kicking techniques. In hand with this someone else pointed up that people have different ideas of what Hapkido is such that not everyone gets taught the same thing and there are recorded cases of people putting together material from various sources and simply applying the label "hapkido". I think we can identify a simple set of basic skills that a person need have from cross-referencing the material of existing systems and identifying commonalities. I have published a result of using this approach on the kicking techniques from the five lists. According to my findings, a person who reports having acquired a 1st BB in the Hapkido arts would be expected to be proficient in the following kicking techniques. 1.Scoop Kick 2.Side Kick 3.Inside Swivel Kick 4.Outside Swivel Kick (“Circle Kick”) 5.Heel Hook Kick 6.Heel Thrust Kick 7.High Point Hick (High Toe Kick) 8.Axe Kick 9.Slap Kick 10. Back Kick 11.Knee Strike Let me say that these would represent the absolute MINIMUM kicking skills but represent the result of the sort of identification process I had in mind. Thoughts? Comments? ……………………………………………………………………” “……………………………………………………….. Post #2 Dear Folks: I have correlated the striking techniques of Dojunim Kim, Kwang Sik Myung, He Young Kimm, In Hyuk Suh and Joo Bang Lee. I can only report that things were a bit more problematic. Apparently all of these folks agree that using the hands is important, but there is less concensus on how that is to be done. Allow me to explain. The following are the techniques that either everybody agrees on or four out of the five agree on. 1.)Hammerfist Strike 2.)Ridgehand Strike 3.)Backfist Strike 4.)Knifehand Strike 5.)Spearhand Strike 6.) Palm Heel Strike 7.) Five Finger Strike Now everybody agrees that there needs to be a Forward Strike of some sort. Candidates for this position include: a.)Forward Punch b.) Single Knuckle Punch c.) Middle Knuckle Punch d.) Four Knuckle Punch (Bear Claw) Now everybody agrees that there needs to be a Backhand Strike of some sort. Candidates for this position include: a.) Simple Backhand b.) Simple Backfist c.) Wrist strike In addition, everybody agrees that there needs to be a rising strike but again cannot agree on the biomechanics. Candidates in this category are. a.) Rising Punch b.) Rising 4-knuckle strike c.) Rising Spearhand Lastly, everybody agrees that the elbow is an excellent weapon to use, but once again can’t agree how. Candidates for this category in order of popularity are: a.) Forward Elbow Strike b.) Rising Elbow Strike c.) Downwards Elbow Strike d.) Sidewards Elbow Strike e.) Rearward Elbow Strike. If anyone were to ask me my personal opinion I would opt that a person representing themselves as a 1st BB would be facile in ALL 22 hand techniques listed. I don't think that minimum is too much to ask. Thoughts? Comments? Remarks that need to be made?.......................................” Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 11:13:10 -0500 From: ABurrese@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: More stuff along the way Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >>I want every student to >>be as good as THEY can be, not as good as anyone else can >>be......It is the >>journey, not the destination......J. R. West Excellent post! As usual GM West's wisdom comes through. This last statement is so true. Thanks for posting it. Alain www.burrese.com --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 08:57:02 -0800 (PST) From: chet reyes To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Sparring gear Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have a 7 year old boy and his growing leaps and bounds. Any sparring gear I purchase will be outgrown within 1 year - 2 if I'm lucky. Any disadvantages of picking up used gear? There are so many manufacturers, web sites and prices that are all over the board. Any suggestions on brand and most inexpensive web site I can pick up new or used gear? Thanks in advance all - --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com/a --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 09:01:44 -0800 (PST) From: luke rose To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Jeremy Anderson Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Interesting that you point out your ballroom dancing. I was a competitive figure skater for ten years. It taught me a huge part of the physical and some of the mental aspects of what I need for the martial arts. It gave me a 29" waist with 23" quads. I began the martial arts for upper body cross training. I had a real powerful kick when I started the arts however, no upper body. I looked like a pyramid, lol. And what a great way to grow up in my adolescence. For the most part there was nothing but beautiful women surrounding me. Anyway, I challenge you a thought that might not of crossed your mind. You've been doing martial arts 12 times longer than dance. Maybe your more skilled at the arts and therefore have greater efficancy. Maybe to be competitive at dance you practice more. These would be some of the things I would ask given the statements you made. The way I see it, no matter what you do you can take it to all sorts of levels. You can make taking tires off a car a valid income (nascar) or be a brain surgeon. It doesn't matter what you do but, what you put in to it and where you take it. By all means, keep up the dance. I can relate to the excellent cross training it provides you. Luke --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com/a --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 09:05:18 -0800 (PST) From: luke rose To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: J.R. West Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I just wanted to say I enjoyed your post but the statement below really sums it up. Thank you. Luke "I want every student to be as good as THEY can be, not as good as anyone else can be......It is the journey, not the destination......" --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com/a --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 17:45:58 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] dance class Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In the early 70's a lot of us old type football players actually took ballet!! I know this sounds crazy and before some you perverts on here who know me start getting a visual of me in a ballet outfit just let me say that I allways wore sweat pants and t shirt.... Ballet was thought back then to be one of the best activities for your agility.... I will have to say that it was the hardest physical activity I EVER participated in... including football, wrestling, martial arts, track, and cross country.... I have a whole new respect for those ballet types after 6 months of that... Michael Tomlinson _________________________________________________________________ Check out Election 2004 for up-to-date election news, plus voter tools and more! http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Ken" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Sparring gear Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 12:59:10 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net did yo ever think of buying the cloth pads? ----- Original Message ----- From: "chet reyes" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 11:57 AM Subject: [The_Dojang] Sparring gear > I have a 7 year old boy and his growing leaps and bounds. Any sparring gear I purchase will be outgrown within 1 year - 2 if I'm lucky. Any disadvantages of picking up used gear? There are so many manufacturers, web sites and prices that are all over the board. Any suggestions on brand and most inexpensive web site I can pick up new or used gear? > > Thanks in advance all - > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com/a > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 1800 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 10:09:21 -0800 (PST) From: Jeremy Anderson Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] dance and marital arts To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Me, I just mesmerize them with my Latin motion... --- Boit Clinton Capt AF/DPMP wrote: > Jeremy, I think dance has some merit to self-defense. My robot-dance > usually > renders my opponents unable to attack....(due to laughing). > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 1800 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 10:22:43 -0800 (PST) From: Jeremy Anderson Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Jeremy Anderson To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net --- luke rose wrote: > And what > a great way to grow up in my adolescence. For the most part there was > nothing but beautiful women surrounding me. Not just great for adolescents, let me tell you! :) > Anyway, I challenge you a > thought that might not of crossed your mind. You've been doing martial > arts 12 times longer than dance. Maybe your more skilled at the arts and > therefore have greater efficancy. Maybe to be competitive at dance you > practice more. Good questions. I'd say I put the same effort into both, but in different ways. In MA, as you say, I've been doing it so long, that I'm more efficient, so I can just let it all loose and sweat 'til I drop without so much thought. In dance, it takes a lot more concentration as I learn to move my body in different ways. The changes in my body shape probably came partly from having "plateaued." The newer activity (dance) shocked my body into growing again. Much like weightlifters switching up their routines every once in a while. > It doesn't matter what you do but, what > you put in to it and where you take it. Excellent point. I agree fully. Hell, my younger brother is an atheist who does nothing but run and he's far more "spiritual" than far too many religious types I know. I tend to wonder when people start bashing other's activities. Whether it's self-defense focused martial artists putting down competition focused martial artists, or martial artists ridiculing dancers, or whatever. We each choose something that speaks to us. Jeremy Anderson. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 12:24:20 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] hapkido technique Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Excellent. You have a good grasp of how hapkido works. I continue to enjoy a students enthusiasm when a technique works smoothly and effortlessly. Of course, the newer student always tries so hard to repeat the same motion that they do not succeed during the same class. But that is part of the learning curve. If you relax, breathe, focus on the principles of basic motion, move from your center and pay close attention to every detail of your technique, it all falls into place. Some day, it will happen with every technique you do. Jere R. Hilland www.HapkidoSelfDefense.com <<>> --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest