Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 13:53:03 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #478 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1800 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Testing (Klaas Barends) 2. testing ranks gup fees times (J R Hilland) 3. Re: Towards a minimum standard (Bruce Sims) 4. 7 yr old Girl: Board Breaking (Clint Cayson) 5. Hwang KJN (Charles Richards) 6. TKD training camp in Greece (Ray Terry) 7. MDK birthday (Ray Terry) 8. tournament (Rudy Timmerman) 9. Testing not for the money (Dunn, Danny J GARRISON) 10. heavy bag recommendations (Bill H.) 11. Tang Soo Do History (Dunn, Danny J GARRISON) 12. Re: 100% (jeffrey kiral) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Klaas Barends Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 15:40:18 +0900 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Testing Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I am glad to see that there are others who use tests for different > reasons than to make money, and I appreciate your comments. Most of > the folks who commented on this thread seem to think that money is the > main purpose for testing, For me, that is just not so, and I had hoped > there would be others who used tests as a genuine tool for making > better students. May I ask how much you charge for a test? -- kind regards, Klaas Barends http://www.hapkido.nl/ http://www.sangmookwan.com/ --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 01:06:56 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] testing ranks gup fees times Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Gordon posted his belt testing information so I thought I would discuss what we do at our dojang. We currently have 6 gup ranks (the colors found on the Korean flag, although I am partial to the old system of 6 white-belt gup ranks). If anyone is eligible or interested in testing they perform a pre-test a week before thee actual test (chodan pre-test one month before). The test has been held for over two decades on the first Saturday of the month at the end of the hapkido weapons class. Fee is $20 and included a belt (if required) and a certification from our organization. The test if over the testing requirements found in our student manual, but is only a demonstration of that persons capabilities for that rank for those specific requirements. Obviously the 'time in rank' requirements provides the student with more techniques than those just on the test. But the purpose of the test is to demonstrate any technique at the level of one holding that rank. The test lasts about 15-25 minutes for each person. As it takes about 5 years to chodan, one tests for a gup about once a year. The last chodan test I held - I charged $50 for the certification from our organization, my cost for the custom embroidered belt (all in Hangul, their name on one side and the dojang on the other) and a yudanja dobok (option). The last chodan test I held lasted 4 hours and wore out 6 training partners. Glen had the flu during the test (he is the large fellow I threw around at the Jackson buffet, video at http://www.natkd.com/movies/Jackson.wmv). The test was strictly related to technique against 1-4 attackers armed and unarmed, and the demonstration of hapkido theory through application. We do not practice hapkido forms and we currently do not practice sparring due to the high rate of injury possibilities for hapkidoin. Strength is not a prerequisite of hapkido; what strength and fitness is necessary to perform the techniques develops naturally as a result of proper training - IN CLASS. That is the nature of hapkido. Jere R. Hilland www.HapkidoSelfDefense.com --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 04:47:27 -0800 (PST) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Towards a minimum standard Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net ".....But doesn't this already exist, after a fashion, in Dr. Kimm's two HKD books? On the other hand... One problem you'll no doubt encounter is that Choi's Hapkiyusul-Hapkido-Yawara had very few kicks, as we currently think of them. Would the students & instructors that stem from that tradition then not meet the minimal standards you are attempting to set forward?....." All good points. Let me see if I can clarify a bit. As I write this there are already a number of "standards". You pointed up the one from Dr. Kimm, and there are also published standards for the WHRDA, the KSW and (I think) the KHF. There are some very definite problems that arise with these when a person begins to bump them up against each other. One of those problems is what you mentioned in that some standards have varied material introduced as different levels. As I see this project, one of the efforts is to identify how what we in the Hapkido community do is the SAME rather than pointing up how we are always different. So far, across the board I have been able to identify only 11 kicks that all Hapkido arts share. Those were the 11 that I published earlier. I know its not a huge number when you look at the various curriculum for different Hapkido arts. What I see this representing is a basic minimum of techniques that will accomplish two things. 1.) Give us a common point of agreement when we speak of "what is hapkido". I think this is also important when assessing those folks who assemble arts from various pieces and then represent the result as "hapkido". 2.) Give us a common point of reference when we want to do more technical discussions--- and hopefully get away from the constant personality-driven discussions. BTW: Just a thought...... In compiling this model I also used the 17 basic kicks practiced by Dojunim Kim (hapkiyusool)at each and every one of his classes. As with other arts not all of the techniques made the cut. In fact it still remains as to whether certain kicks such as the Inside and the Outside Cresent Kicks, as well as the Roundhouse Kick will be included. Not everyone uses these kicks. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 08:47:19 -0500 From: "Clint Cayson" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] 7 yr old Girl: Board Breaking Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello, Good day to all Masters and Practitioners! I have a question about "board-breaking". During the session my 7 year old daughter is having a hard time executing breaking the board, either breakable or wood. I know she's having fear of breaking her hand instead but how would any suggest to get rid off her fear? I've seen her execute all different types and kinds of techniques (no problem with her postures) and at the moment she's going to do it, she stopped at the board not following through. Any information would greatly appreciate. Thanks. Respectfully, Clint --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 06:17:49 -0800 (PST) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Hwang KJN Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master JC I think we agree on many things, but with all do respect I see a little "group think" or "party line" in some of your statements. I might suggest you do a little research outside the SBDMDK world to give you a different set of sunglasses to look at the same picture. 1. Everybody circa 1945 would have called their art Tang Su Do, Kong Soo Do, Yudo or Kendo regardless of what it was and how many Korean ties it had because that was what was recognized and popular. 2. If we must have a founder then let's remember that Lee, Won Kyuk KJN was teaching Tang Su Do at the Chung Do Kwan in 1944 before the occupation ended. And we are pretty sure it was Korean Karate based on his instruction in Sho Rin Ryu. 3. I have huge respect for Hwang KJN for flying in the face of popularity and teaching an art that honored his country and his sifu, but even though it will be hard to confirm, I think Hwang, KJN was teaching wu shu (Chineese martial arts) when he called it Hwa Soo Do, agreeing with Master Terry, propably things he learned from Master Yang. Or my theory a mixture of Master Yang's teaching and his self taught Tae Kyun techniques... 4. Been a lot of posts in the archives, but my belief is that Hwang KJN founded a school called the Moo Duk Kwan, taught Hwa Soo Do (see above until the 50's), then changed to Tang Su Do (unconfirmed where he actually learned Karate). It is obvious that he is the founder of Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan and subsequently the founder of Soo Bak Do Moo Duk Kwan Yours in jung Do, MC --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 07:36:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] TKD training camp in Greece Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Join and groin with us...??? :) Fowarding... ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: koykoyletsos vasilios OLYMPIC TAEKWONDO TRAINING CAMP AT GREECE. MASTER VASILLIOS KOUKOULETSOS proudly presents The Advance Olympic Taekwondo Intensive Training Camp. The best never rest!!! Come to beautiful Sunny Greece and learn the fastest growing devastatingly effective training system directly from its founder. Intensive Training and free mental preparation. Open to all individuals interested in Olympic TAEKWONDO. Air Condition Facility. Quality Commemorative T-Shirt. Testing and All DAN CERTIFICATION AVAILAIBLE to enjoy the prosperity of official recognition. Free tour at Athens 2004 tkd stadium. Add much, much more... FIRST TIME IN EUROPE 2 DAY INTENSIVE TRAINING CAMP IN OLYMPIC TAEKWONDO WITH WORLD RENOWED MASTER VASILLIO KOUKOULETSO TO MAXIMIZE THE POTENTIAL OPPORTUNITIES FOR YOUR STUNDENTS TO TAKE PART IN THE OLYMPIC DREAM. PHYSICAL-TECHNICAL-MENTALLY TRAINING . EVERY WEEKEND . WRITE FOR MORE INFO: MASTER V. KOUKOULETSOS TAEKWONDO ATHLETIC CENTERS, KIERIOU 24, 43300 SOPHADES, KARDITSA, GREECE. MOBILE:+306945100388. E-MAIL:koykoyletsos@acn.gr Please arrive Early - Come and train at one of the best O.T.T.C. in Europe. All participants receive a gold metal and certificate for their participation and their efforts. We invite you to join and groin with us. --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 07:33:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] MDK birthday Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net 9 November 1945 Happy Birthday Moo Duk Kwan. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 11:05:09 -0500 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] tournament Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jason writes: > Just a friendly reminder. This Saturday, North Austin Tae Kwon Do will > be > hosting the Central Texas Friendship Tourney, open to all list > members, all > ranks, all styles all ages. Please visit www.natkd.com/events for more > information. Have a great event master J. Wish I could be there, but you know we have our annual award dinner and black belt promotions. All NKMAA members driving to Canada for the seminars and promotions this coming weekend... drive safe! Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 10:12:10 -0600 From: "Dunn, Danny J GARRISON" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Testing not for the money Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net KJN Rudy, Just catching up on last week this morning. But I also use tests to ratchet up the pressure a notch or two. I agree with what some others have said about knowing the ability of my own students, and I have considered just handing them a belt when they are ready for the next rank. But I have always been tested mentally as well as physically on tests, and it does give me a sense of accomplishment, especially as an old guy, being able to hang with those younger folks. I try to use tests to show them something about themselves. All our dan testing in the organization I belong to are done collectively at a regional level, and on an international level for sah dan and higher. I have to tell you that going through our Master candidate and Masters tests are grueling. Similar to what Master Cox explained, though I don't belong to the same org. Now, as the decision maker on regional tests with a panel of Masters, I am testing students that I didn't train, some who are excellent, others not. I can see their techniques, but until I push them on the test, their mental attitude and determination are not necessarily apparent. And anyone who has been through one of my dan tests will assure you it is not 2 forms and 1 minute of sparring. It is comprehensive. I have a small school, but I certainly don't know where the windfall of testing fees all goes, because I am not getting rich from them. Tang Soo! Danny Dunn <<>>> --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 08:49:02 -0800 (PST) From: "Bill H." To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] heavy bag recommendations Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I'm a yellow belt just beginning a TKD black belt program at a dojang in St Louis. I go to class as often as possible but I love kicking so much that I'd like to practice at home. I've seen some water base free-standing bags at the dojang but have never used one. Do you have any recommendations on particular models such as the Century Wavemaster XXL? Are the free-standing or hanging bags better for kicking practice? Thank you. Bill H, St Louis, MO __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 10:52:44 -0600 From: "Dunn, Danny J GARRISON" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Tang Soo Do History Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net JC, <<<< He later adopted the name Tang Soo Do ( generic Karate) for the purpose of public recognition, but he did not change systems or teaching methods. >>>>>>>>>> What is your citation for this statement(the last clause)? It is widely thought that he may have changed some because the first attempt to establish Moo Duk Kwan failed. If you have some hard information to support this, I believe it would interest a lot of people. <<>>>> Actually, it is. It is the exact Korean pronunciation of "Kara Te Do" that is before Funakoshi changed the first Hanja from one representing Tang Dynasty, "the one we still use", to the Hanja meaning Empty. <<<>>>>>> I am not so sure about your last statement. <<<<<>>>>> Well, KJN Shin has said and written that Tang Soo Do is a generic or commonly used term. <<<<>>> I am fortunate enough to get to train with KJN Shin, and I can tell you that you have missed some great training. Do you have the pictures up on line, or would you be willing to share electronic copies? Danny Dunn --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "jeffrey kiral" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] 100% Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 17:54:20 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net it has been my personal experience as well that you should not push 100% all the time...no good for you...that is why i only "max out" when weight training every other week. as for my other training in MA, i try to push myself at a top level once per week, but i also know that unless i am under some kind of stress such as a rank test or a physical competition, then that 100% is more like 90%, since i know that when i am performing under stressfull conditions, i seem to be giving a little extra.....just my 2 pence ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 4:19 PM Subject: [The_Dojang] 100% > > > After 20+ years involved with sports, exercise, and martial arts (forgive me > for mentioning them in the same sentence) I've long come to a very simple > and sobering conclusion...you can't give 100% all of the time. To do so is > to play with fire. I don't care if you're preparing for a soccer game, or > practicing knife disarms at full speed...physical overtraining is physical > overtraining. And there is a price to pay for it...physical and mental > malaise, injuries, fatigue, illness, depression, etc. > > > > Do you regularly ask 100% from your students all the time, or do you scale > it back occasionally in order for them to recover? I've often toyed with > the idea of a "hard week/easy week" schedule should I ever run an organized > school or training facility. If you don't scale it back, then I'm wondering > if you have a high injury and/or turnover rate. It might not be an issue > for those students that only come once or twice a week. But, I can see how > you might have problems with your hardcore students that are making it to > class three or more times a week. Burnout would be inevitable...unless they > put something else in the water where you're from. > > > > Just curious. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest