Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 06:51:07 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #494 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1800 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. GrandMaster Timmerman (Christy Cory) 2. Moo Duk Kwan (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 3. Sip Sam Seh (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 4. Pay for Value (Charles Richards) 5. Charging for the arts (Burdick, Dakin R) 6. RE: New Address (J R Hilland) 7. Reflections on Contemporary Korea (Ray Terry) 8. From another group... (Jye nigma) 9. RE: doing it for the money (Lasich, Mark D.) 10. Empty Pocket-Do (Bert Edens) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Christy Cory" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 22:08:22 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] GrandMaster Timmerman Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net This past weekend, I was able to attend a series of Seminars held by GrandMaster Rudy Timmerman in Sault Ste Marie, Ontario.  I am writing about my experience for several reasons.  1.  To show my respect and appreciation for GrandMaster Timmerman, 2.  The efforts of those involved deserve to be brought to light and 3.  I learned a lesson over this weekend, and maybe someone else could learn from it too!.  I have attended several of GrandMaster Timmermans (NKMAA) seminars in the past (held at our Do Jang here in Brainerd, MN) and they are always of such a high quality (as he demands this of both himself and his students we should not be surprised).  But attending these activities in his "home" Do Jang was an incredible experience.   This weekend was even more special for me as GrandMaster Timmerman had several of his students testing for their black belts (of varying dahn) in both Kuk Sool Wan and Kong Shin Bup Hapkido and I was able to observe.  Among these students were students who frequently travel and assist GrandMaster Timmerman in the instruction of his seminars and individuals whom GrandMaster Timmerman has taken on as his own personal students, including Master Garrett DeWitt and PSN Karmon Keppers (Brainerd, MN), who were testing to obtain 1st Dahn rank in Kong Shin Bup.  I have not had the privilege of observing "Black Belt" testing before, and must say it was quite a humbling experience.  To watch anyone give their heart, soul and sweat :-) to anything is such a beautiful and moving thing.  But to see this from individuals whom you respect and admire...I know of no words that could give this justice. All of these individuals worked very hard over the course of this weekend.  Running, calisthetics, forms, weapons, HapKiDo (of course), completion of a "challenge course" and even (and we have the video tape to prove it :-) a "swim" in Lake Huron.  In case you were wondering, there was no ice, but I can assure you it was extremely cold!  Leading the charge to the water was GrandMaster Timmerman himself.  He subscribes to the "I would never ask you to something I wouldn't do myself" train of thought.  But what struck me...was that all of these black belts...from different parts of the country schools, ages (from late 20's to 50's), backgrounds, abilities, specialties and degrees...all stuck together.  They pulled for each other.  They cheered each other on!  There was no ego, no competition.  They wanted each other to succeed.  They did what they had to do to make sure everyone could succeed.  I think that is a great lesson for each of us.  There's nothing wrong with pushing yourself to "get to the top", but every now and then, maybe reach back behind you and help pull the next guy up.  IMHO On Saturday evening we had an Awards Banquet, the culmination of alot of effort on the part of alot of people!  I'm happy to report that both Master DeWitt and Mrs. Keppers were promoted to 1st Dahn Kong Shin Bup and Mrs. Keppers received the NKMAA Black Belt of the Year award.  We are all so very proud.  In addition to that, several others were promoted (and I would feel horrible if I missed even one of them, so I will not list them, but you all know who you are and I am proud to be affiliated with you)!  Many of these individuals are members of the DoJang Digest and I wish to congratulate them again on a very impressive showing!   --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: "the_dojang" Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 23:01:20 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Moo Duk Kwan Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Frank Moo Duk Kwan formed November 9 1945 JC --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: "the_dojang" Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 23:00:18 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Sip Sam Seh Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Frank Thank You. This helps. I knew that Hwang Kee was not the author although he did reproduce it in many of his publications. I also knew it predated the Moo Duk Kwan. I am searching for its origin, so every connection to its history helps. This is the first time I have heard it referred to as 13 postures. I have heard it called the 13 influences or 13 principles, although it is reported to be relating to the 8 directions on a compass and the 5 elements of Fire, Water, Earth, Wood, and Metal. This has been a very interesting study JC --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 06:25:34 -0800 (PST) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Pay for Value Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I read "If you have a day job or just enjoy being poor, continue to teach and charge minimum wage. If you want to provide for your family, yourself and your students then we all need to re-evaluate what Martial arts is really worth and start charging it." MC Reply I have a day job, moved my gym style club to a small store-front and it almost broke our family financialy. I have known Master Allison for the last 9 years. When I first met him, he worked for BellSouth and had two full time schools 60 miles apart. A few years ago he had an opportunity to lease the bay next to his dojang and effectively double his studio space. He has changed his introductory program and price structure, but still produces the same high quality black belts. My point is folks like Master Allison and Master West deserve the opportunity to teach martial arts as a career and to support their families doing it. In fact, I believe the quality and longevity of KMA are improved by these gentlemen being full time professional martial artists. When I opened my school I looked around and decided NOT to be the cheapest place in town. I set my monthly fees the same as other store front schools in my 5 mile radius, but include test fees with tuition. I also looked at folks that "just watch your kids" and the going rate is $10/hour...so I set my pricing at $10/class or $79/month. There is a TSD club in the County Rec Center that charges $45...we both have about 30-35 active students, but we have a space that is solely dedicated to martial arts instruction. So yes we should charge for the value of our services, or at least enough to pursue martial arts instruction as a career. If a police officer, fireman and school teacher each earn about $27,000 per year plus health care benefits, why should a full time martial arts instructor earn any less? And if a Quik Trip or Racetrac convenience store manager earns about $50,000 per year, why should a full time master instructor/school owner earn any less? Just my thoughts.. Yours in Jung Do Charles Richards --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 10:07:41 -0500 From: "Burdick, Dakin R" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Charging for the arts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I'll comment on this one as well: "If you really want to elevate the quality of martial arts we have to stop giving it away." Really, the only way I get to do the hapkido I want to is by giving it away. The people who charge for this sort of thing around here are either (1) interesting in martial arts as a social club rather than as an art or (2) rigidly dedicated to a particular way of doing things. Maybe you're luckier where you are. I think things can get better if you are willing to change and I think that one should practice hard. Only a few guys around here are willing to do that and often they are either (1) too poor to afford the OTHER classes or (2) so dedicated it wouldn't matter what I charge them. Since I only have a couple folks like that, I like them as my friends. When I charge money it is for renting mat space, not for my time. If it came to that, I'd have to pay them for showing up and letting me crank on them. As it is, we crank on each other and have a great time. Plus, most of us can make a lot more money doing something other than the martial arts. Then we can spend that money on what we love. Yours in the arts, Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 09:26:10 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: New Address Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello my old friend. So you left Fort Wayne for sunny Florida? We left Indiana for North Dakota last spring. Enjoy the warm air and send some this way! :) --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 07:27:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Reflections on Contemporary Korea Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Forwarding... Stone Mirror: Reflections on Contemporary Korea, by David I. Steinberg, 2002. Norwalk, CT: East Bridge. 298 pages. (ISBN 1-891936-12-3), US $14.95. reviewed by Bernhard Seliger Hanns Seidel Stiftung bjseliger@yahoo.de Stone Mirror contains a collection of over 100 short essays on a wide range of topics relating to Korea: current affairs, culture, society, and political relations. Drawn from David Steinberg's more than 230 columns for the Korea Times (and, occasionally, other newspapers), the essays are grouped into such fields as "Korean Mores and Customs", "Ceremonies and Traditions", "Food and Hospitality", "Landscapes and Aesthetics" and so on, and appeared originally between 1995 and 2002. (Some bear the date of 1966, but this appears to be a printing error.) The author, of course, needs little introduction to the Korean Studies community. As a long time resident of Korea (1963-68 and 1994-98) and Director of Asian Studies at Georgetown University's School of Foreign Service, Steinberg has profound insight into Korean culture and society, and this insight makes his essays entertaining and often enlightening. Steinberg's long interest and experience in Korean affairs also allows him to detach his reflections from the background noise that so often surrounds political and societal discussion in Korea. While South Korea's economy and political system have developed at breathtaking speed, lasting elements of its unique traditional culture and society remain. Rarely are these elements so clearly illuminated as in these small pieces of Steinberg. Understanding Korea's development, however, also requires recognition that these traditional remnants are crucial and Steinberg's perceptiveness is one of the reasons this volume is so valuable. His comparisons of then and now are therefore my favourite pieces in the collection, as when he discusses "ritual retribution," and reflects on the "blame game" that followed the outbreak of the economic and financial crisis of 1997. While the last pieces collected in this book were written in early 2002, many of them equally apply to the current political situation: his comments on the confrontation of government and the media under Kim Dae-Jung in 2000 also fit the current confrontation between Roh Moo-Hyun and the media, and his 1998 remarks on elites and universities are at least as appropriate in the current dispute about the universities' autonomy to select students. While often reflecting on ongoing political discussion in Korea, most of Steinberg's pieces tend to focus on underlying aspects of Korea's culture and society. His advice, on topics as diverse as Anti-Americanism, gender equality or food culture, is always amiable, never bullying. This attitude reflects Steinberg's large experience, not only of Korean history and politics, culture and language, but also of Korean interaction with the outside world and Korean ways of incorporating foreign viewpoints. Steinberg's experience of South Korea and its transformations is, however, paradoxically also a limitation. On some topics (most obviously, on North Korea and inter-Korean relations since the summit of June 2000, but also on trends towards political and economic integration in Northeast Asia and China's resurgent role in the region), Steinberg has few things to say. Evidently, as the back cover of the book suggests, with its rather modest talk of an "iconoclastic yet sympathetic series of vignettes on the cultural, socioeconomic, and political life of Korea," he did not intend to give a complete overview of contemporary Korea. This collection's vignettes fill a gap in bridging popular and academic writing on contemporary Korea, and will be a most welcome addition for readers interested in looking at Korean affairs not as a discrete series of events, but as embedded within and shaped by a unique culture and political economy. Citation: Seliger, Bernhard 2004 Stone Mirror: Reflections on Contemporary Korea, by David I. Steinberg,(2002) Korean Studies Review 2004, no. 19 Electronic file: http://koreaweb.ws/ks/ksr/ksr04-19.htm --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 07:31:50 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] From another group... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net sooooooooo does anyone know why the form Kung Ga (don't know spelling) is soo odd!!! It the form after koreo!(or another name for this is Godio) WTF MasterGraff --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! – Try it today! --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Lasich, Mark D." To: "Dojang (E-mail)" Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 10:31:56 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: doing it for the money Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net There is a lot of good discussion around this topic. I, too, don't believe there is going to be a single right and everything else is wrong. As Mr. Stovall wrote: "In the end, there's room for everybody..." In this regard, I do not have any problem with anyone charging a lot, or anyone giving away the farm. Personally, if I had the opportunity, I would love to be able to support myself and family through the MAs. One of the lines that is being drawn seems to be the difference between paying for a product vs. paying for a service. MA is obviously on the service side, so if we look at comparing other services we can think of both physical and emotional/mental services. On the physical side there are the Personal Weight Trainers, Physical Therapists, Music Teachers, heck even every professional sport coach (which we all know is HUGE business). Emotional/mental: school teachers, tutors (think Sylvan Learning Centers), etc. I guess in all of these there are the organizations vs. the local experts, low costs vs. high costs, etc. Freedom to choose is wonderful. The entire professional sports arena really gets me. People spend hundreds of dollars to watch ONE game, put down a major portion of their salary for season tickets (kind of reminds you of a contract, doesn't it?), carve out major chunks of time to watch games on TV, read it in the paper, remember every meaningless statistic, sport around the expensive "team gear", and so on, and so on, and so on. Some of these same people baulk at paying $50/month for MA training that will directly impact their life! Some things in life simply defy logic. How people choose to part with their money is just one of them. [rambling off....] In the spirit, Mark ------------------ "It's the love that you give In the hour you live That's the measure of the life you lead." ~ Ronnie Milsap --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 09:43:43 -0600 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Bert Edens Subject: [The_Dojang] Empty Pocket-Do Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net At 05:03 11/19/04, you wrote: >master tim of the empty pocket-do >"What's so funny about peace, love, and understanding?" Greetings, sir... Ah, so you are the founder of the great Bin-Joo-Meo-Ni-Do... I bow to you... :-) I'm sure there are many of us who are bound to join your organization, if we don't already belong :) Out of jest, I founded "Noon-Pyo-Beom-Do" earlier this year: Way Of The Snow Leopard... I did so after a black ink pen accidentally got in the dryer with my white dobok... :-) <> - Bert Edens, Great Grand Supreme Master Poobah of Noon-Pyo-Beom-Do Springdale, Arkansas --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest