Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 03:02:30 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #495 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1800 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: doing it for the money (Deb Von Cannon) 2. JC (Frank Clay) 3. Sip Sam Seh (Frank Clay) 4. Re: Sip Sam Seh (Bert Edens) 5. comments regarding teaching for profit (kikbut@joimail.com) 6. Kung Ga (Kuemgang) (David Weller) 7. Re: Grandmaster Timmerman (ABurrese@aol.com) 8. Song of the Sip Sam Seh (Charles Richards) 9. KO-Online.com & Korean swords (KO-Online) 10. Grand Master Timmerman (mdealba@pacbell.net) 11. RE: Re: Doing it for the money and being in balance (Kip McCormick) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Deb Von Cannon" To: Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 07:47:08 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: doing it for the money Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >From Mark D. Lasich: At work, we've been told time and time again that when the consumer has a stake in their health care (i.e. we pay an increasing portion of the insurance premium, and a portion of any treatments), that we will make better choices, value it more, not take it for granted, or take advantage of it. ----- Something to add to this thought process is that many people that come to classes are children, or teens. Parents that we have met don't care to drop a high dollar onto a martial arts program because in many parent's view, martial arts are just recreation, even if the youth sees it as a change of life and starts setting higher goals and reaching deeper in themselves. In addition, many of the students that come thru our program are people who need the vast benefits of the martial arts in their life, not just a workout and mostly come from households that cannot afford payments that put food on the instructor's own table. Once, we had a young teen come to class and after so many months, ended up using the very basics to save herself in a real situation. Had her parents not been able to afford the class, she may not have gone home after her attack. Perhaps balancing teaching opportunities by having a class that 'brings home the bacon' and then offering classes to those less fortunate would be a healthy balance. We offer our classes almost as inexpensively as we can without just breaking even. It's hard, but knowing the training saved a child's life is more rewarding than any dollar could be for us. Anyway, that is just how it works out for us. Spirit~Loyalty~Virtue, DVC --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Frank Clay" To: Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 11:07:12 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] JC Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I looked back and noticed my typo. Thanks. :) --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Frank Clay" To: Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 11:08:39 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Sip Sam Seh Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have more Classical Chinese works, as I am a long-time practitioner of Taijiquan. Let me do some checking. I might have another resource packed up somewhere that may provide more research material. f. --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 10:11:26 -0600 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Bert Edens Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Sip Sam Seh Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net At 08:51 11/19/04, you wrote: >Subject: [The_Dojang] Sip Sam Seh >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >Frank > >Thank You. This helps. I knew that Hwang Kee was not the author although he >did reproduce it in many of his publications. I also knew it predated the Moo >Duk Kwan. I am searching for its origin, so every connection to its history >helps. > >This is the first time I have heard it referred to as 13 postures. I have >heard it called the 13 influences or 13 principles, although it is reported to >be relating to the 8 directions on a compass and the 5 elements of Fire, >Water, Earth, Wood, and Metal. > >This has been a very interesting study > >JC Greetings, gentlemen... I don't know if this will be something you already are familiar with, but www.warrior-scholar.com has a couple of nice pages at: http://www.warrior-scholar.com/old/Ship%20Sam%20Seh.htm I don't like the page layout, but when you scroll to the bottom of the first page, using their red arrow scroll control, it poiints to a second page... This does give a lot of information about Sip Sam Seh and the application, etc. Hope this helps! <> - Bert Edens, II Dan TKD Springdale, Arkansas --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "kikbut@joimail.com" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 11:12:45 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] comments regarding teaching for profit Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net My first time commenting...since joining 18 Nov: Comments regarding "teaching for profit"! I owned and operated one school for one year for 4.5 yrs and during one of those years I had two. I tried to keep cost to students as low as possible. Gave scholarships to 10 % of my class that I knew kids that had single parents and were really struggling financially. No contracts...just month to month payments. I gained a couple really good students that made to Black Belt and are still with me. However, after the 4.5 years it took a toll on my personal finances trying to keep it going. I had to file bankruptcy! Since 2000, I have been at a YMCA, Gymnastic school and a Christian After School Program. I an now making a salary that is paying for my son to attend college. I have some of the same good students that made Black Belt, are now on the payroll as well. I miss the feeling of owning my own business.....but man is it great not worrying about meeting the demands of "BILLS" etc......... My hat goes off to anyone that is successful in operating a dojang!!! I use to spend my holidays and free time cleaning and keeping the dojang spotless. So when you spend years of hard training and usually paying for it yourself, there should come a time to reap the benefits. I also agree, if you are financially set where you can spend 4 nights away from you family and do it for nothing, then that's great and very honorable. I know am looking forward to hearing all of your informative comments over the years on this digest. In the Budo Spirit, Wayne Spencer Spencer's Warrior Club vatkd.com See ya in the ring! ps. I also could not see the photos from the sword page. --__--__-- Message: 6 From: David Weller Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 10:43:00 -0600 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Kung Ga (Kuemgang) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Never thought of this form as "odd" but I can see the authors point. My take on this form, and this is confirmed by things my Master Instructor has alluded to, is that certain moves were not originally done empty handed but with a Staff(Bong). On move 8 picture a staff in your hands rather than a rising block and a downward block in the crane stance. Better yet, grab a staff and do that portion of the form. Now I'm likely all wet on this, but when learning the form my teacher had me hold the staff on those motions and it seemed to clarify things for me. that's about a pennies worth, but it's all i've got... dave weller On Nov 19, 2004, at 8:51 AM, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net wrote: > From: Jye nigma > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [The_Dojang] From another group... > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > sooooooooo > > does anyone know why the form Kung Ga (don't know spelling) is soo > odd!!! > > It the form after koreo!(or another name for this is Godio) > WTF > > MasterGraff --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:27:44 -0500 From: ABurrese@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Grandmaster Timmerman Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thanks for sharing your experiences with GM Timmerman. I've had the opertunity to learn from him and also sit and share experiences and knowledge. I would encourage anyone to take advantage of opportunities to gain from his wisdom and years of experience. Thanks again for sharing your positive weekend. Yours in Training, Alain www.burrese.com --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 09:38:10 -0800 (PST) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Song of the Sip Sam Seh Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear wise ones :-) If Song of the Sip Sam Seh is 13 principles/postures and Seisan is 13 strikes/motion, I wonder if there is any connection in the two hyung/kata. The 8 directions of the pau qua tied with the 5 elements sounds very plausable for asian philosophy, and that comment makes me wonder if those concepts are buried on a deaper level in Seisan? Any takers? YIJD MC --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:10:19 -0600 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: KO-Online Subject: [The_Dojang] KO-Online.com & Korean swords Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thanks for the info Jeff. Everything is fixed now at http://www.ko-online.com/sword.html Jim KO-Online.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "mdealba@pacbell.net" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 13:43:37 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Grand Master Timmerman Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Congratulations SIR!!! It does not surprise me that everyone had such a great time and were impressed. What did you expect? Consider your source. GM Timmerman is a rare example of talent, knowledge, humility, and positive energy that is sorely missing in our martial arts world. Keep up the good work Sir. With brotherhood, Grand Master Michael De Alba -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Kip McCormick" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: Doing it for the money and being in balance Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:25:39 -0800 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net First off, hats off to Master Allison for getting this string started. Sir, it's great to see you hookin' and jabbin' still. My two cents: Life's about balance and when that balance gets out of whack, well, you're whacked. Martial Arts instructors need to charge what they think is fair. When it gets beyond that, to where instructors are charging much more than the fair value of their services, then that's where I have a problem. (Common sense is the judge for me.) For example, it shouldn't cost $1000 to test for a black belt, but yep, a lot of instructors charge that, as well as charging large monthly fees in excess of $100 to train. (And don't give me that crap of "It's a high cost of living area so I need to charge more..." Master Bob Ingersoll in Seaside/Monterey California runs an extremely successful dojang for about $70 per month w/ unlimited training -- and that's an expensive place to live!) I look at some of the weekend seminars here in the NY city area and they go for about $150-300 for one to maybe one-and a half days of training. Then I look at the throwdown we do in Mississippi and it's half the cost for twice (at least) the training. And people keep coming back, and coming back...Several of the masters on this list have made a good, honest -- notice I said honest -- living teaching martial arts. God bless 'em and the example they set. Shame on the ones who are taking advantage of their students. When we get out of balance we fall, financially, spiritually, physically... Kip >From: Gag1407@cs.com >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #492 - 10 msgs Re: >doing it for money >Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 16:48:18 EST > > I teach TKD classes at the local YMCA and it's the cheapest place to >train >in town. I would hate to think that since it's the the cheapest, I'm the >worst >instructor in town. I believe my students, their parents and also my bosses >would beg to differ. The price has nothing to do with the quality of >training, >especially in the arts. My 2 sense! > > GREG Galey >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 1800 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest