Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 03:03:21 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 11 #496 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 1800 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: GrandMaster Timmerman (Jason Thomas (Y!)) 2. RE: #13 (Frank Clay) 3. RE: Pay for Value (Jason Thomas (Y!)) 4. Training (Rudy Timmerman) 5. Friendship and respect (Rudy Timmerman) 6. Re: Minimum Standards --- Grappling (Bruce Sims) 7. opening school (freddie bishop) 8. money (freddie bishop) 9. Charge tuition?? (Neal Konecky) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Jason Thomas \(Y!\)" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] GrandMaster Timmerman Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 08:23:32 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Christy, Thanks for taking the time to share you experience. Having been at GM Timmerman's Dojang for part of this event last year, I can affirm that your description is right on the money! Going to GM Timmerman's Dojang and training in the Sault is a great experience and I highly recommend it to anyone who is offered the chance to go and train. Its gratifying to hear the both Master Dewitt and PSBN Kempers successfully achieved their 1st Dahn in KSB. It's a true testament to their abilities to perservere through an extremely difficult challenge (one I personally was not able to overcome) and resounding win for GM Timmerman and his Band of Brother's Program. I'd like the congratulate Master Dewitt, PSBN Kempers and GM Timmerman on their incredible achievement. It's an inspiration to us all. Jason --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Frank Clay" To: Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 09:10:32 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: #13 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Well... There is a strong Buddhist touch on things dealing with Qigong and health, as well as Taoist. Thirteen is considered a lucky number to the Chinese. There are thirteen Lunar months. Thirteen is also a Fibonacci number, which refers to the theoretical, and controversial Golden ration. More likely the number 13 gains its luckiness from the Buddhist root. King Gesar, a Tibet, was said to have decided at age 13 that he was going to be a Buddha. Legend also says that he was victorious a in either a horse race or chariot race at that age and that he had 13 concubines. And supposedly he became King then too of Liang. That area was said to have thirteen mountains. Of course, it is also entirely possible that this guess represents mere coincidence. Remember that similarities can be generated in cultures which have no contact. Contributing to the murkiness of the water, Frank --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Jason Thomas \(Y!\)" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Pay for Value Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 09:35:58 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Markets are a funny thing! Simply put things are worth what consumers are willing to pay for them. If you don't value what you teach, no one else will. With that said, you can accept payments in many ways. I have about 40 students who pay our school approximately $80/month in tuition and come to class about twice a week. I have several personal students who pay me in nothing but sweat. The former support the dojang and are great people! I enjoy teaching them. The latter provide me with personal satisfaction of creating top notch Martial Artists. The bottom line is this: You have to do what's right for you. If you want to teach martial arts and make a living that's fine; if you want martial arts to be a personal thing that you share with students and friends that's fine too. Just be honest with what you offer and don't deceive anyone one. I don't begrudge anyone one their 2 year black belt program (I go for the 4 year variation myself). As long as everyone understands what they are getting and what their doing (I realize this isn't the case every time). Regards, Jason --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 11:31:38 -0500 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Training Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Alain writes: > Thanks for sharing your experiences with GM Timmerman. I've had the > opertunity to learn from him and also sit and share experiences and > knowledge. I would encourage anyone to take advantage of > opportunities to gain from his wisdom and years of experience. Thanks > again for sharing your positive weekend. Thank you Alain, coming from you this is truly appreciated. Hope things are going well with you and the family. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 11:38:11 -0500 From: Rudy Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Friendship and respect Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net GM DeAlba writes: > Congratulations SIR!!! > It does not surprise me that everyone had such a great time and were > impressed. What did you expect? Consider your source. GM Timmerman is a > rare example of talent, knowledge, humility, and positive energy that > is > sorely missing in our martial arts world. > Keep up the good work Sir. > With brotherhood, > Grand Master Michael De Alba Hello dear friend. Thank you so much for your kind words. It has been too long since I have seen you, and we need to fix that neh. Nice to see you post on the DD. Take care my friend, and let us try and get together soon. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 13:34:05 -0800 (PST) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Minimum Standards --- Grappling Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Folks: The following 10 techniques are identified in every curriculum I am reviewing. I have included a description, and used the most common name or title I could find. Please let me know if there is an alternate Name by which these techniques would be better known. If people know a Korean name as well it would be even better. "............................................ Technique: Armbar Drill: The attacker executes cross grab to the wrist. The defender counters with a low inside roll followed immediately by an outside roll. Simultaneously defender steps forward with trailing leg, as trailing knife hand rises to strike attacker’s lead elbow in a rising and rolling fashion. Drawing away from the attacker with the lead hand, and rolling in a high arc with the trailing hand, the defender’s trailing foot steps through and plants, just as the attacker’s now locked arm is pressed to the defender’s knee. Technique: Standard Wrist Throw Drill: The attacker executes a straight punch or grab. The defender responds with an Outside Palm block catching the wrist and turning the hand over. Pressure is applied to the back of the hand as the defender steps forward with his trailing foot and pivots 90 degrees on the ball of the lead foot. The throw is executed by applying further pressure to the back of the attackers’ hand at a 45 degree oblique angle. The partner may either sit down with this technique or may choose to execute an air-roll. Technique: Wrist Lock Drill: The attacker applies straight-hand wrist grab. The defender responds with outward wrist roll of lead hand to palm-down position with a strong flex. Simultaneously the defenders’ trailing hand crosses to the attackers’ lead hand, covering the attackers’ lead hand from above. Reversing his lead hand with an outside roll, the defender now executes an inside roll, grasping the attackers’ lead hand. In this configuration each of the defenders’ hands grasps a lateral edge of the attackers’ hand flexing the palm towards the attackers’ face, fingers pointed upwards. Pressure on the back of the attackers’ hand is combined with a full step exiting the attackers’ centerline to the defenders’ rear, inducing the attacker to bow forwards to relieve tension and discomfort. Technique: Inner Four-Directions Projection Drill: The attacker executes a cross-hand wrist grab. The defender responds with inward wrist roll with the lead hand and a firm draw of attackers’ wrist toward defenders’ lead hip. Focus is on the index finger knuckle of defenders’ the lead hand, and the "KI-out" of the thumb down and away. The defenders’ trailing foot, with a full step, enters attackers’ centerline at 45 degree angle, as the trailing hand locates at attackers’ lead wrist with inner index knuckle bearing firmly on the radius bone. The defender simultaneously snaps their hips 180 degrees to face the opposite direction while snapping the attackers’ wrist sharply over his head and downward. The index finger of defenders’ the lead hand should point to the final destination of the attacker, typically at the knee on defenders’ lead foot, though an additional step of trailing foot can be added to extend the projection to a further point. Technique: Forward Wrist Throw Drill: The attacker executes cross-arm wrist grab. The defender exerts a slight pull downward immediately followed by an outward wrist roll with defender seizing the attackers’ lead wrist and feeding to the trailing hand which seizes the back of the attackers’ hand. The defender exits the attackers’ centerline with the trailing foot resulting in the attackers’ elbow rising towards the ceiling. Stepping under the attackers’ arm with the lead foot, the defender pivots 180 degrees, but maintains the forearms’ vertical position. The attacker and defender are now hip to hip, facing the same direction with the attackers’ arm in the “double flex” position, vertical in front of his shoulder, his and palm facing forward. Stepping forward with the trailing foot, the defender "casts” the attacker forward into a forward roll. Technique: Elbow Wrist Throw Drill: The attacker executes a straight grab to the lapel. The defender executes a cover with the trailing hand and hooks the attackers’ elbow with the lead index finger. Having accomplished a basic S-arm configuration, the defender steps two shoulder-widths behind the trailing leg with their lead leg as they torque the wrist and draw on the attackers’ elbow. The drag is accomplished as the defenders’ hips unwind. Drawing on the elbow and pressing on the back of the attackers’ hand, the attacker is taken to the floor. Technique: Hammerlock Drill: The attacker executes a straight grab to the defenders’ wrist. The defender responds with a “C-out” with the lead hand. As the defenders’ trailing leg steps forward, exiting the attackers’ centerline, the defenders’ trailing hand reaches for the cleft of the attackers’ lead arm and digging deeply into the pressure point, collapsing the arm. Stepping under the attackers’ arm, the defender pivots 180 degrees, allowing the attackers’ lead wrist from the webbing of the defenders’ hand and slip up the defenders’ arm. This technique may also include a takedown by utilizing centrifugal force and a step back draws the attacker to the floor in a tight spiral. Technique: Single Leg Sweep Drill: The attacker applies straight wrist grab. The defender responds with a low outside wrist roll with the lead hand, grasping the attackers lead wrist. Simultaneously the The defender enters the attacker’s centerline with trailing foot. As the defenders’ trailing foot plants, his leading foot, by substitution sweeps the attackers lead foot as the lead wrist is drawn out and down. The technique is completed as the attacker is taken to the mat in front of the defender. A typical follow-up might be a knee-drop to the chest or a floor-pin. Technique: Hip Throw Drill: The attacker applies a cross-wrist grab. The defender responds with a low inside wrist roll and a firm draw on the attackers’ arm. Simultaneously the defender enters the attackers’ centerline with trailing foot, continues to draw firmly on attackers’ lead arm and slips the trailing arm in an arc across the attackers’ shoulder blades. As the defenders’ trailing foot plants inside the attackers’ trailing instep, the defenders’ trailing hand inserts in the attackers’ armpit and the defenders’ lead hip impacts the attackers’ groin. The attacker is hefted across the defenders’ hips and thrown to the floor. Technique: Shoulder Throw Drill: The attacker executes a cross- wrist grab. The defender responds with a low slight inside wrist roll with the lead hand. Simultaneously the defender cross-steps in front of leading foot, exiting the attacker’s centerline, the defender’s trailing arm snaps in sharply into the attacker’s armpit. As the defender seizes the attacker’s upper arm, his hips pivot 180 degrees. Flexing sharply at the hips, the defender throws his partner to the mat. .............................................." Apologies to Mgmt for the bandwidth use. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 14:20:29 -0800 (PST) From: freddie bishop To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] opening school Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net dear folks When is the right time to open up your own martial arts school. Some folks start soon after they earn their black belt, and some folks start one when their teacher says they can. So, my question is more of a personal one. When does a person "know" when their ready to serve the community as a martial arts instructor? I hope I get some answers from most of you regular posting members. Sincerely Fred __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 14:44:30 -0800 (PST) From: freddie bishop To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] money Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net My sons' former TKD instructor charges $80 a month for two training sessions per week and one session with one of his black belts on Saturday. NOt bad for a guy who also teaches hapkido he learned off of Bong Soo Hans Hapkido tapes and now I see he may be offering sword practice. Not bad for a guy who has only been taught TKD the old fashioned way, blood, sweat, and tears. Fred __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! http://my.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 15:56:02 -0800 (PST) From: Neal Konecky To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Charge tuition?? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Once, we had a young teen come to class and after so many months, ended up using the very basics to save herself in a real situation. Had her parents not been able to afford the class, she may not have gone home after her attack. Perhaps balancing teaching opportunities by having a class that 'brings home the bacon' and then offering classes to those less fortunate would be a healthy balance. We offer our classes almost as inexpensively as we can without just breaking even. It's hard, but knowing the training saved a child's life is more rewarding than any dollar could be for us. While an important philosophical debate, and surely there is no one answer, each must follow their own conscience, something is being over looked. I do not believe in teaching without getting a contribution in return. The contribution may be monetary (tuition), or non-monetary. I earn my instruction by being an assistant instructor. I clean up around the dojang, I maintain the books and records. As long as there is effort from the students coming back to the Instructor/dojang, I believe that the students will appreciate it more and all will benefit. On the other hand, I have seen those that "could not afford" tuition. In most cases, it was not a money problem but a priority or commitment problem. I am sure that you have seen the types, new car with all the toys and whistles, sneakers that cost more than all the clothes on your back, but somehow they can not afford to pay you for your effort and knowledge. This is not someone I would offer a reduced rate to. If they want to work, sincerely, for lessons, then I would consider it. Neal Konecky t is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence." -Mahatma Gandhi --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! – Try it today! --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2004: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest